The Plan to Close the Gender Healthcare Gap

She is the president and CEO for the Society for Women's Health Research. Katie Schubert, thank you so much for joining us. We don't have the information that we need to be able to guide our clinical decision making. We are just at the beginning of understanding women's health. We know what the gaps are. Heart disease looks different for men and women. A majority of autoimmune patients and Alzheimer's disease patients are women. It's an economic competitiveness issue. It is a productivity issue. The history of America is that things do not change until women demand change. We're standing on the shoulders of those who came before us to make our voices collectively so loud that policymakers can't ignore it anymore. We have to make this a national priority. [MUSIC PLAYING] Hi. I'm Norah O'Donnell, and this is Healthful. Welcome back. As you know, for too long, women's health has been underfunded and under-researched. Even now in 2026, less than 10% of the research dollars at the National Institutes of Health are directed towards women, and we are talking about taxpayer money. It is time to change that. Well, that's why we have with us a coalition of nearly 60 of the nation's leading medical societies and organizations have unveiled a national strategy dedicated to closing the women's health gap. And joining me now is the main architect of that strategy, Katie Schubert. She is the president and CEO for the Society for Women's Health Research. Katie, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. You and your team have helped create this first of its kind roadmap for women's health. What is it? Yeah, we are talking billions of dollars here, not millions. So it's really important to, straight out of the gate, say this is a lot of money we are asking Congress to fund, but we think that's what it's going to take. So $20 billion over 10 years in five different buckets. The first one is the research-and-innovation bucket. We want $7 billion to go toward that. You noted the NIH dollar amount. We've been saying less than 10% has been going to women's health research. Back in 1989, when the Society for Women's Health Research was being founded, it was 13%. So these percentages are not adding up. We're going backwards. We're going backwards. So we're seeing such a movement now. We need to make sure we're investing in the research itself. But we also are taking this a step further. It can't just be research dollars. We need to support the workforce in research and in clinical education. If you show up to your doctor, they may not have an understanding of how things are different for women than men, so we want to see funding going into that. We want to see data collection efforts and funding going into creating the infrastructure so that we can compare data over time, over years, use real-world data. We want federal agencies-- and here's a real groundbreaking move. We want them to talk to each other. So we put some money into regulatory modernization and some coordination efforts for FDA, as an example, to speak with NIH. Let's translate the research into treatments and clinical guidelines. And then the last piece, which is really important, is education and awareness. So how do we make sure that women have what they need when they walk into their clinician's office to understand what it is that they're experiencing in those measly 15 minutes that they have with their clinician? You have outlined this ambitious $20-billion roadmap, but it's for 51% of the population. I mean, this should be something that gets approved easily. And I must say, it is very impressive because your numbers are growing. You now have more than 60 organizations supporting this-- the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecologists, the American Heart Association, the National MS Society, the March of Dimes. Why do so many of these organizations agree on your initiative? Yeah, I mean, I think it's really important that this be a comprehensive and cohesive effort and this idea that women's health is not special, right? You noted 51% of the population. We're not asking all that much, I don't think, when we think about the numbers and the millions of patients that we're trying to reach. So for these national organizations who are traditionally maybe disease oriented or life-stage oriented-- even on the clinical side, maybe they're general practitioners. How can we make sure that they're raising their voices alongside us so that we can truly create the movement? I think they're seeing it. We've seen so much momentum over the last few years. This is much more of a national conversation, I think. You're bringing it to light. Others are bringing it to light. We're standing on the shoulders of those who came before us to make our voices collectively so loud that policymakers can't ignore it anymore. We have to make this a national priority. Is Congress making it a priority? That's what we're working on. So we launched on July 15. We had Congresswoman DeLauro from Connecticut join us. We've had lots of bipartisan conversations. This has also always been a bipartisan issue. We never hear from any of the meetings that we have that nobody likes-- nobody doesn't want to fund women's health. Nobody opposes this, right? Nobody opposes this. Or at least publicly. Publicly or even-- I mean, I've been in some-- as a former lobbyist, I've been in some tough meetings up on the Hill. And so I think it's more a matter of, how do we raise this issue so much to the national agenda that they do believe that they want to fund this? So I think it's a matter of between now and as we see Congress close out their session, raising that awareness, we'll be going back up to the Hill, doing more meetings, conversations building our champions so that they can then lift this up and make it legislation and they can appropriate the money. Katie, as you know, this podcast is about raising awareness about women's health and allowing our viewers access to some of the world's best experts surrounding women's health because people want information. People want change. They want the medical system to change, and they want lots of information. And I think what many people may not realize-- and I wrote about this in my book, We the Women, that it wasn't until 1993 and Pat Schroeder, a congresswoman from Colorado, along with other Republican congresswomen as well as part of this bipartisan women's caucus, that they passed this law that required the NIH to include women and minorities in clinical research. Just to state that again, people, before 1993, women were not included in research. How would the effort that you are pushing change that or push it even further? Yeah, I mean, first of all, it's absolutely wild, right? And I'm sure when you say it in rooms, when I say it in rooms, I usually get an audible gasp from people because the reality is we don't have the information that we need to be able to guide our clinical decision making. It's a problem. It's a problem. We are just at the beginning of understanding women's health. And to even just double click on that a little bit, when we look at the work that we at the Society did to help with that and working with Congresswoman Schroeder and all that bipartisan caucus, that's the model we want to bring back. And this is sort of like the next thing that's going to happen. If we truly want to close this gap, this is how we're going to do it. But if you think about where we are in terms of the timeline, it wasn't until 2016 that researchers even had to consider sex differences in research at basic trial level. So animal models, they were looking at male mice. They weren't looking at female mice. Researchers were either not including females because it turns out it's really difficult to control for things like hormones. It's easier to do your research that way. That's not realistic. They were never required to do it until then. So we're only a decade into that piece that there's so far for us to go to close this gap that it's going to require all of us together to do it. This is the next step, right? We are sort of plussing up this strategy and making it broader. We can't do this alone, nor should we. This is an everyone issue. It's not just a women's issue. Women statistically spend more of their lives in poor health than men. Does that have to do with this research gap? Yeah, I think that's exactly part of it. I mean, we don't know why that is. It is not necessarily because we're living longer, although we do. But that's exactly what we're trying to illustrate here. We know what the gaps are. It's that heart disease looks different for men and women. It's that a majority of autoimmune patients and Alzheimer's disease patients are women. We don't know why. We just know that that's true. I would even say things like endometriosis-- which I think now I can step into a room and have conversations and people actually have heard that word before, but that's also fairly recent. And so I think all of these contributing factors to this gap are coming together to really show this. This is, again, it's an economic competitiveness issue. It is a productivity issue. Women are making a majority of the healthcare decisions for our families, and so it's time that this be pushed to the top of the priority list. Why is this issue personal for you? Yeah, well, I'm a mom. I have three kids who are now teenagers, which seems wild. But when I was pregnant with my third-- and this story sounds sort of silly, but I think it actually perfectly illustrates what the problem is, and I sort of got to thinking about, if I'm having this problem, what if someone who has a real serious medical condition needed assistance? So I had a sinus infection. I wanted antibiotics to kick it. I knew that was the only thing that was going to work. My OB wouldn't prescribe them to me, and my primary care physician said, I'm not touching this. You are pregnant. You need to go back to your OB. I, luckily, had represented the Society for Maternal Fetal Medicine at the time, and so I called a few people and said, what do you do in this case? And the answer was, well, we don't test medications in pregnant women, and so we don't know. Now, they could give me 10 different answers to what they thought I could do, but that really led to this conversation about that being sort of the last part of the population of women who were not being included in clinical research, and there are ways to do it. So I think that's a piece of this, but I could also share family histories of fibroids and endometriosis on our side. I can share ongoing conversations that I'm having with my teenage daughter about her health and answers that we don't have for that. And so it permeates every aspect of what we do, and it really is a community issue. So we have to be able to give better answers to our children and their children so that we can actually get this thing done and have those answers the first time. Yeah, and women voters should demand that their representatives address women's health issues. This should be a bipartisan issue. It should be a no-brainer. Yeah, I would say a couple of things. I think it is bipartisan. It always has been, like we were just talking about. It also, however, is a deeply political issue because it is the result of political decisions, the political process, if you will. That doesn't mean that it's partisan, but we're seeing the national priorities in terms of where funding goes, and that's the result of a political process that we need to make our voices much louder about and make it the number-one issue for policymakers to address. Now to our segment, the Group Chat. [MUSIC PLAYING] We had so many people write in for our group chat that had questions for you. Some of them are saucy. OK!

OK, you ready? All right, Liz asks, "It seems like women have more health issues than men, especially for those of us 50 plus. Is that the case, or do we seek medical help more often than men, so we hear more about it?" I would bet it's a combination of those things. We are traditionally better at going to that-- we are heavy users of the medical system, probably because if we are having children, we regularly see our clinicians. We are taking care of our families. It does remind us to go to the doctor. At the same time, I think the other issue is we have a lot of mystery illnesses and diseases, and so it may feel potentially as if there are more issues going on. Whereas maybe if you are a man and you're going to see your doctor and you're having a hard issue, you can get the answer pretty quickly. Which is not to say it's easy, but they know more. And so for us, it takes a diagnostic odyssey a lot of times. A diagnostic odyssey. That's a good way to put it. Mary asks, "Is there more attention to women's cardiovascular health now than in the past, when it was largely ignored?" Yes. Yes? Short answer, yes, absolutely. We know it is very common, I think, to understand that there are differences between men and women. How the symptoms present. The symptoms present differently. We still have some challenges when it comes to the clinical education piece. I would also say that I think that we, as women, at least in the personal stories that we have heard, oftentimes those symptoms, because you don't think of them as traditionally cardiovascular disease symptoms, things like fatigue, not your traditional my heart feels like it's going to explode-- that's not how women experience heart attacks. So I do think that there still is that gap because of that, and it does remain the number-one killer of women and men. But we know so much more than we did, and it was the perfect example, even back in the '90s, for why there's a gap. Cynthia asks, "What concrete changes would actually reduce the health disparities Black women experience?" Yeah, I mean, we are seeing disparities for Black women versus white women across the board. It does not matter what issue area we are looking at. We see them. So maternal health we know, right? Black women are three times more likely to die as a result of a pregnancy-related complications than white women. Menopause symptoms-- menopause can come earlier. It can last longer. You can have more intense hot flashes. You look at uterine fibroids. 80% of Black women will have uterine fibroids. 70% of all women will, but those are disparities here that we have to look at. So I think in terms of the strategy, infusing funding into the research to understand what's going on and the workforce to better equip those clinicians and the researchers to get the answers will definitely help close those disparities. The data piece here is also really important. It is an issue where we may not be collecting data in the way that we need to or we're not able to look at different populations in the way that we need to. So we have to make sure we get that all standardized as well. Jenny is hoping you can "compare US health care for women with European countries-- specifically pre- and postnatal care." This has come up with the discussion about postpartum psychosis or postpartum depression and how it's treated differently in Europe. Yeah, there are so many factors, I think, contributing to this issue. So if you look at what's happening in the US, this is a sort of multifaceted approach that is starting to be addressed. Obviously, there are lots of stories in the news that are so tragic that are leading to this conversation, things like screening for maternal mental health throughout pregnancy and afterward, coverage for Medicaid postpartum. We are now-- I think there's one last state that does not extend it to a year. We need to get to that state. We need to make sure. Do you know what that state is? Oh, gosh. I want to say it's Arkansas. It's really important because, I mean, as you know, six weeks after you have a baby is not the end of your postpartum period. And so we don't do a great job of supporting through the system women who are postpartum. We're getting a little better, and I think that the conversation has changed. But again, action is needed. Europe seems to be better about the support postpartum that we don't have here, but there's also other systemic issues, including things like paid leave. The prenatal care also, making sure that women are equipped, once they have their baby, to be able to not just take care of it but take care of themselves. Equipping partners to be able to help with that, too. That conversation is a lot different than even when I was having kids, but we have a long way to go, I think. Michelle writes, "I want to know why millions of dollars are invested on men's little blue pills, when women are suffering from menopause." Yeah, great question, right? Menopause is something that impacts 100% of that 51% of the population, and yet we have millions and millions of dollars going into other research. So that's why we're trying to change it with the national strategy for sure. Rosa asks, "Why are doctors so quick to dismiss symptoms of female patients?" There's a lot of factors in here. My optimistic side would like to say that they don't have the education or the background to be able to not dismiss those symptoms. And that's why more research and funding is needed? We need more research and funding. We have to educate clinicians on menopause alone. I mean, you've talked with several menopause clinicians and researchers, and they all point this out, too. If you were becoming an OB/GYN or a primary care clinician between 2000 and today, you probably didn't learn anything about menopause or how to treat it. It was just something you suffered through. And so I think we see that there's also this vague symptomology that we see, too, like fatigue, as I mentioned earlier. I'm tired a lot. I'm also in midlife. I've got teenagers. I work full time. I'm running around all the time. It could be that. It could be autoimmune. It could be menopause. It could be any number of things. But we don't have the answers to get us there, so we need to be able to infuse on research and on that clinical education. Yeah, what kind of tests should we be asking our doctor for, as we can self-advocate for ourselves? Kelly sent in something I think a lot of people relate to. She says this. "It's taken me about 10 years to finally find a provider who doesn't see me as just a number, and seems invested in my care." Oh, Kelly, I'm so sorry. That makes me want to cry. Yeah, and that, I think, is where we are, a lot of times. It's also, I think, why we're seeing so many women turn to social media for their advice. And there's some really good sources. There are also some not-so-great sources. And so that's sort of why the public education and awareness piece of the strategy is going to be really important. We want to make sure that people have the answers and they feel listened to, right? I mentioned we only have 15 minutes with a clinician. We, unfortunately, have the burden on us to have to go in there and advocate for ourselves. We would love to flip that so that that's not the case. You don't need to feel alone, and I want you to have that answer the first time that you're bringing a symptom to a doctor. Yeah, but you're going to need more than $20 billion to do that. You're going to have to change the whole insurance industry. We are. Yep, and we're calling this a down payment. [LAUGHTER] Got it. All right, Kim asks, on that very point, "How can patients be part of the solution to improve on the health gap?" Yeah, a few things. I think there's several ways to do this, and I think, number one, actually advocating with Congress would be really important because that's what's going to get this done. NIH is the number-one funder of biomedical research in the world. That's our taxpayer dollars. We get to tell Congress how we would like them to spend it. So let's do that, first and foremost. On the personal side, it's really, unfortunately, about educating yourself as best you can. I would plug our society resources. They're free. You don't even have to put an email address in there to access them. But there's toolkits. Write everything down. I like to take pictures of the medications and supplements I'm on and bring them to my doctor so that I remember in the moment what I am taking and see what her feedback is. I just think it's really important to arm yourself with as much information as possible. What is the biggest innovation that you are most excited about when it comes to women's health? Yeah, I used to say that it was simply innovative to fund women's health and to do the research. I think now-- this is six years later since I came into this position-- we're in such a better place. The sky's the limit. There is so much opportunity. This is not only good for us as women, as patients. It's good for the country, right? I mean, it's a money maker. So I think, innovationwise, I personally see a lot of value in, what's the data that we have-- wearables. I mean, I have all of the data, right? I'm wearing two wearables at the same time right now, and I have the power in that data to be able to really understand what's going on. So we want to channel that and be able to actually get to the answers that we need. So things like AI, if collected correctly, hugely innovative for women's health. We may be able to tap data sources we didn't know that we had, on top of research. Is anybody working on that, like a company that you know that you like? That's a great question. I've seen a couple of startups. I'm not sure we're quite where we would need to be, but it's something that we want to work on because we want to make sure that we're getting-- that has such great promise. It also has a lot of-- I think it comes with some caution, right? Like, if we're building an AI system on data that does not exist because women weren't included in clinical research, that's going to be a problem for us. So we want to make sure we build this the right way. I just want to underline that for people that may not understand what that means, which is I do think that artificial intelligence can offer this promise for collecting our data, synthesizing our data, and certainly it can help those research organizations who are using AI to look at breast scans or all that kinds of things. But when we look at a large language model, which is what we're at now, those are built on a system that is almost entirely research that has funded clinical research on men, on males, not on women. It's male bodies. That's the underlying foundation. So we just have to be cautious of that. I think that's exactly right. And I think that's really, as we're thinking about all of this great conversation surrounding women's health, we're seeing more corporate investment. We're seeing more venture capital investment, more philanthropic investment, for sure. What we're looking to do with the national strategy is to fix the infrastructure so that we can all work together and get those answers right. Without systemic change, we won't be able to do anything. We won't be able to scale up any of these innovative solutions that people are looking at right now. Now to our segment Three Simple Things. [MUSIC PLAYING] Three Simple Things is sponsored by UnitedHealth Group, working to close the women's health gap. What are three simple things we can do to close the women's health gap? Number one, I think talking to your family and your friends about your health, easy thing. Cross-generational conversation doesn't happen enough. We need to be able to shed light on that. Number two, this may seem a little strange, but stay with me on it. Understanding your health benefits and your employer benefits that are available to you. We see this in the menopause space a lot. There are lots of benefits that companies offer. They're not marketed to their employees necessarily as being, quote, unquote, menopause friendly or whatever you want to call it, but they do apply to that population. And so really understanding what you have access to because most people don't know what they can take advantage of. I'm so glad you said that because at CBS and Paramount, we have access to Maven, which is menopause related. There are fertility-related apps. I mean, there's more beyond that, but they are available. I know companies try and provide those resources. Yeah, and I think we're getting there in terms of just making sure that people know about it, but it is an easy little audit that you can do for yourself to just see what you have available. The other thing, the last thing is call Congress and tell them to support the national strategy to close the women's health gap. Congress.gov, find your member of Congress. Give them a ring. We have a segment called Turning the Tables, where you get to ask me a question. [MUSIC PLAYING] Anything you want to know? I do. I was wondering, given all of the conversations that you've had, given your book, and watching this all sort of unfold in the same timeline that we have, what do you think it's going to take to put the Society for Women's Health Research out of business for good and close this gap? I think a lot of my knowledge on this issue or perhaps understanding or my belief system flows from writing the book that I wrote recently called We the Women. And, historically, what we've seen is that things don't change until women get involved and rise up and demand change. That is the history of America for the last 250 years. It started with women during the revolutionary period. It started with Mercy Otis Warren, who was considered the leading intellectual of the American revolutionary period who was the secret muse of the Bill of Rights. I mean, think about what's in the Bill of Rights. It started with the abolitionist movement that was largely women organizing to make sure that we outlaw slavery in this country; the suffrage movement, so that women could get the right to vote with the 19th Amendment in 1920. I mean, women fought dearly for that to get the right to vote. And then you can talk about the labor movement, the civil rights movement, and more. The history of America is that things do not change until women demand change, not until Pat Schroeder and other women in Congress demanded that women be included in research. So I would say that the gap doesn't change until there's actually political activism. You know what I mean? And I'm a journalist, so I don't support or talk about either side. This is a bipartisan issue. And throughout history, massive social change has happened when it's a bipartisan issue and when women get involved. Yeah, I totally agree. I feel like, at this point, we know the gaps. We all know what we need to do about it. It's the political that we need to be able to really move this needle forward. All right, if you remember nothing else from this podcast, what do you want people to remember? I want them to advocate for themselves, and they can do that in any number of ways. But we would love for them to know that there is a coalition that exists that anyone can be a part of. These national organizations that you don't think of in terms of understanding women's health are here to close the gap, and we see you all with us under that umbrella. We want them to support the national strategy. We want them to talk about their health care. And how can they find out more information? They can go to swhr.org, and everything is right there in front of them. Katie Schubert, great to talk to you. Thank you so much. Thank you. [MUSIC PLAYING]