Daniel Penny's martial arts instructor testifies in NYC subway chokehold death trial
NEW YORK — Daniel Penny's martial arts instructor from the Marine Corps took the stand Thursday for day six of witness testimony in Penny's trial.
Penny has pleaded not guilty in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely on board a subway train last year. Prosecutors argue Penny's intentions were good in protecting fellow passengers from a threatening Neely but that he used excessive force.
Marine Corps martial arts instructor explains kinds of chokeholds
Prosecutors called Joseph Caballer, Penny's Marine Corps martial arts instructor, to the stand. He testified Penny attained a green belt.
During training, he said warnings are given not to hold a choke longer than five seconds. On cross, he told defense attorneys five seconds is not applicable to a real world situation, saying a "situation dictates."
Caballer told the jury applying a choke properly would "render your aggressor unconscious," then they're told to release pressure immediately otherwise it "could lead to injury or death."
Caballer explained a "blood choke" is when pressure is applied to carotid arteries on both sides of the neck and should render someone unconscious in between eight to 13 seconds.
He explained an "air choke" is when pressure is applied directly to the trachea and would take two to three minutes for someone to lose consciousness. Because it would take that long, he explained, it is not taught.
Martial arts instructor takes court through NYC subway chokehold video frame-by-frame
Prosecutors took him frame by frame through Penny's hold on Neely. At times, he testified Penny appeared to be doing a figure four variation – a form of a blood choke – but that he didn't appear to be doing it correctly.
In one particular frame, Caballer said it appeared Penny's forearm was pressing against Neely's trachea.
"So is this an improper blood choke?" prosecutors asked.
"Yeah," Caballer said.
"Is it potentially lethal?" prosecutors asked,
"Yes, absolutely," Caballer said.
On cross-examination, defense attorneys asked, "It may also be there is low pressure to the trachea and more to right side of neck?"
"Correct," Caballer said.
"So someone could stay in a chokehold for longer than 13 seconds and not be rendered unconscious if they're not applying pressure?" defense attorneys asked.
"Correct," Caballer said.
He also said it was hard to tell if pressure was being applied or not at certain times in the video and that during a struggle, arm placements can shift sometimes, impacting the trachea.
Caballer added he couldn't tell from the video whether Penny was ever applying a "full" blood or air choke.
Doctor from medical examiner's office takes stand
Jurors also saw Penny's voluntary police precinct interview, where he told detectives he wasn't trying to injure Neely, he was trying to keep him from injuring someone else.
"I'm not trying to, like, kill the guy, I'm just trying to, like, deescalate the situation," Penny says in the video. "He's threatening people, and like, I'm pretty not, I'm not confrontational, I'm not a confrontational guy. But in the Marine Corps, I felt the need that to, you know, step in. There's women and children on the train. I'm sure there's ladies there that will vouch for me."
A detective testified Penny did not know that Neely had died when he gave that interview.
The doctor from the medical examiner's office who performed Neely's autopsy also took the stand. She said Neely had blunt force trauma to his face, neck, torso and arms in the form of scrapes and bruises. She ruled his cause of death as compression of the neck.
Testimony resumes Friday.
