Women In Combat Debate Rekindled

It's been more than three decades since women were integrated into the mainstream military. But,

It's been said repeatedly there are no front lines in Iraq, Martin remarks. What that means became brutally clear when a Marine convoy was ambushed in Fallujah. Three of the dead and 11 of the wounded were females, even though women are supposedly banned from serving in combat units.

One of those killed, Regina Clark, was actually a cook, but she and the other women had been pressed into duty at checkpoints around Fallujah to search Iraqi women for hidden weapons.

That was duty her mother, Melita Fountain, didn't know she was performing.

"I didn't expect that," Fountain told Martin. "I didn't realize that her job changed like that, because I thought she'd be in the back again, rebuilding."

It's not the first time American servicewomen have suddenly found themselves in combat.

Sgt. Lee Ann Hester of the Kentucky National Guard was awarded the Silver Star after her convoy was ambushed.

When the shooting starts, gender doesn't matter, Martin points out.

"You don't have time to think about how you're feeling. Adrenaline's pumping, bullets are flying and it's basically you or them," Hester observes.

Of the more than 1,740 American soldiers and Marines killed in Iraq, 38 have been women, and the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee wants to make sure women get no closer to combat than they already are.

"I think it would be a real mistake to have women fight in close and deadly brutal combat in the U.S. military," says Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.).

A lot of arguments have been used to bar women from serving in combat units, Martin notes, including practical ones, such as a lack of upper body strength.

But Hunter has a more basic objection: "Americans elevate women. We always have, and the idea of having our wives and mothers and daughters carrying bayonets and fighting in close ground combat, uh, uh. Killing and being killed in turn is not something that Americans want. It's certainly not something that I want."

Still, says Martin, the reality of the war in Iraq is that women such as Sgt. Angel Pashley, whose specialty is civil affairs, are now being awarded the combat action badge for having come under enemy fire.The issue of women's upper-body strength was cited during a

Elaine Donnelly, president of the Center for Military Readiness and a former Pentagon adviser on women in combat, took on retired Air Force Lt. Col. Karen Johnson, who's now executive vice president of the National Organization for Women. Johnson served as an Air Force nurse for 20 years, and was stationed in Thailand during the Vietnam war.

Johnson asserted to co-anchor Hannah Storm that, "To be an American citizen, you have a right to be able to participate in the military and to serve the military as a full and responsible citizen. As women, we are patriotic. We care about our country. And we're willing to fight and to die for our country."

Donnelly countered, saying, "Women are exempt from direct ground combat and from units that co-locate with them. It's not a matter of civil rights. It's a matter of whether, in combat, women have an equal opportunity to survive or to help fellow soldiers survive. In direct ground combat, the kind of action that liberated Fallujah, women are certainly at a disadvantage. It would be harmful to both men and women to have women in those units.

"It's actually a matter of life and death. Women do not have the same kind of upper-body strength that allows them to carry what the average combat soldier carries. …If you cannot do that or you cannot rescue a fellow soldier, literally pick that wounded soldier up and carry him to safety, then certainly you are in great danger yourself, but also endangering others. It's just not a good policy for us. No other world power in history has had women in or near close combat units."

Johnson disputed that, saying, "Some women are not (physically capable of handling direct combat), some men are not. But many women are able to do that. I met a 17-year-old woman who can press 500 pounds. I can lift patients and take them down stairways out of a hospital if burning. That's my job."

Donnelly was having none of it: "I don't think, Lt. Col. Johnson, that you've lifted a fully loaded man, carried him to safety with all of his equipment, in a life-and-death situation. I don't think we need to have this kind of social experiment when lives are at risk."

"This is not an experiment. This is our lives," Johnson answered.

By this time, the two were speaking over each other.

"Yes, it's the lives of our combat soldiers," Donnelly said. "We don't experiment with the lives of our combat soldiers."

"Women are already in combat," Johnson shot back.

Storm asked Donnelly and Johnson about how current servicewomen feel about the issue.

No surprise, the two disagreed again.

Said, Johnson: "The women I talk to in the miltary who are currently serving in Afghanistan and Iraq want to be there. They want to serve their country. They're part of a team. On the front lines. Wherever they're needed."

Donnelly: "No, no. The polls that the Army took before they stopped asking the question show that the overwhelming majority of military women, especially in the enlisted ranks, do not want to be assigned to close combat on the same basis as men. I don't think there's any way this would benefit women."