Universal truths about marriage and divorce
Danielle and Adam Silverstein met in high school in 1995 and agree their romance was picture-perfect. Marriage has been a different story. "It's complicated!" Danielle laughed. "I always say, you know, 'Till death do us part is a really long time,' you know? It is a really long time."
They've now been married a really long time – more than two decades – but a year ago, they nearly called it quits. "We were really, really, like, disconnected," said Danielle. "I mean, only speaking to each other when we had to."
"We had blowouts, you know, big arguments," said Adam.
In a last-ditch effort to reconnect, they agreed on what they called a "30-day challenge." For a month, each promised to change one thing that the other wanted. Things got better, then better still, and today, they say they are closer than ever.
So, how did they manage to avoid becoming divorced? According to Adam, "I think for us, why we're not – and I don't know about anybody else's relationships, so I can't speak for anybody but us – we just have this bond and connection and unique, I think, love that I don't think can be broken. We've tried many times! And it hasn't worked."
They are not unique: Divorce rates in America have been dropping for a while – down 27 percent between 2012 and 2022, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. Couples therapist Marissa Nelson gives her profession some of the credit.
I asked, "What is the main reason, if there is one, that couples turn up at your door?"
"Well, I would be in Bora Bora on the beach, [if I had] a dollar every time somebody said we had communication issues," said Nelson.
The real reason, she said, was, "Longing. Loneliness. People are longing to be wanted."
"Why is this hard?"
"It's hard because life sometimes is hard," Nelson said.
So hard, in fact, that the Washington, D.C., therapist says saving the marriage isn't always the answer. "As a couples therapist, you come out of school and you're really doe-eyed, and you want to save the world, no divorces. But as you continue to do this work, you understand that there are circumstances and reasons why people choose to uncouple. And for many people that I have had the honor of being able to work with, divorce was probably the best thing for their relationship and for their children."
That's where New York divorce lawyer Robert Cohen comes in. Over three decades, he has handled as many as a thousand cases. But his clients often share one simple want: "Generally they want to be happier," he said. "What does that mean? It's very hard. It depends on the person, you know? How do you make somebody happier? It's not easy. But I think people just want to be happier."
Including the rich and famous. Cohen has had a star-studded cast of clients, from Melinda Gates, Chris Rock and Tracy Morgan, to James Gandolfini and Christie Brinkley. Since divorce has built his career, it is shocking to learn how he really feels about it: "I think the world would be better, I think our kids would be better, I think families would be better, if there wasn't divorce," he said.
Cohen has even written an "anti-divorce" book, called, "Reconcilable Differences: 7 Keys to Remaining Together from a Top Matrimonial Lawyer." His basic advice? "Try to stay married, if you can," he said. "I had a guy come in to see me, he was 95 years old. And I said, 'You're 95 years old. Why are you getting divorced?' He said, 'I can't live with my wife anymore, she smokes.' And it was driving him crazy. And I said to him, 'Can't you put in a ventilation system or some system in the apartment that will work?' And he just didn't want to do it anymore."
He says he has referred between five and ten percent of his clients to marriage counselors. "It's not gonna bring me to the poor house," he said. "But it's gonna be a good thing for them. I'm not worried about that part of it."
"You're not worried about putting yourself out of business?" I asked.
"I'm not."
Meanwhile, the now-happy Silversteins have gone from needing marital advice, to giving it in their wildly successful podcast, "Marriage & Martinis." Asked to describe their podcast, Danielle said, "Explicit!"
Recorded weekly in their New Jersey home, it's an uncensored, intimate look at their marriage, good and bad. They even fight on the air. "Oh, yeah, at some points we've had to throw off the headphones and pause the podcast," Danielle said.
"Go our separate ways for an hour!" Adam laughed.
"And we've also had to have discussions off the podcast sometimes, in the middle of an episode, and then go back," Danielle said.
"But the police have not been involved in this? We're not at that point?" I asked.
"Not at that point, no. No police!" Danielle laughed.
But with eight million downloads, they may have tapped into some universal truths about marriage. "I think the best feedback that we get is, 'Oh, my God, me too,' or, 'Oh, my God, us too,'" said Adam.
Danielle said, "So many people are going through the same thing, but nobody talks about it."
And talking is key. Just ask Marissa Nelson. "Look, we don't get manuals for relationships; I wish we did! But we don't," she said. "And I think that when you have two people that come together with different needs, you have to be vigilant and intentional that love and communication is an ongoing process that you're committing to."
For divorce lawyer Robert Cohen, the biggest key to staying together, is, "Not expecting perfect, but trying to be perfect."
For more info:
- Couples therapist Marissa Nelson (intimacymoons.com)
- Divorce lawyer Robert Stephan Cohen
- "Reconcilable Differences: 7 Keys to Remaining Together from a Top Matrimonial Lawyer" by Robert Stephan Cohen (Atria Books), in Trade Paperback and eBook formats, available via Bookshop.org, Barnes & Noble and Amazon
- "Marriage and Martinis" (Podcast) with Danielle and Adam Silverstein
Story produced by Amiel Weisfogel. Editor: Steven Tyler.
See also:
- Un-tying the knot ("Sunday Morning")
- Marlo Thomas & Phil Donahue on the secrets of lasting marriages ("Sunday Morning")
- Study shines light on what dooms marriages ("CBS This Morning")
- "Gray divorces" increasing sharply ("CBS This Morning: Saturday")
