Transcript: Sen. Dick Durbin on "Face the Nation," May 5, 2019
The following is a transcript of the interview with Democratic Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois that aired Sunday, May 5, 2019, on "Face the Nation."
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to the number two Democrat in the Senate, Dick Durbin of Illinois. He joins us this morning from Chicago. Senator, I- I want to get to a number of these domestic issues with you, but I do know you had visited Venezuela within the past few years. Do you support the administration's approach here?
SENATOR DICK DURBIN: Well I support their approach, but I don't agree with Lindsey Graham. I am not in favor of military intervention, but I- I can just tell you that I listened to o Secretary of State Pompeo trying to explain this President's conversation with Vladimir Putin, and I just don't get it. This president is totally dazzled by Vladimir Putin, by the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, by authoritarian leaders in countries like Brazil. He gets on the phone with them and he loses it, gets all googly eyed, over their assertions they have nothing to do with what's going on in Venezuela. Listen to what John Bolton says, listen what- even what Secretary of State Pompeo said. Russia has sent at least a planeload full of these little green men that we've seen in eastern Ukraine and they are destabilizing the situation there. They're there to- to support Maduro. They don't want to see the change that the American people want to see and that's to have a free election in that country, and the choice of someone democratically.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Now to the question of Russian election interference in this country's election in 2016, which is of course what prompted the mush- Mueller report and what brings us to where we are right now with the attorney general testifying to Congress about his description of that to the public. Speaker Pelosi said this week that A.G. Barr lied, do you agree with her?
SEN. DURBIN: Well I don't know what other conclusion you can reach. I asked him the question, point blank, and Charlie Crist of Florida asked him, "well, is there any effort by the people who worked on the Mueller staff and such to raise questions about the accuracy of what you said in your letter.' And he said, "no, I don't know." And the fact is he'd received a letter from Bob Mueller just a few days before that explicitly said, in writing, the concerns which he had with the characterizations by Attorney General Barr. I don't know any other way to characterize it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let's listen to that exchange that you just referenced.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: That was Congressman Crist and then Senator Van Hollen. Those questions that you are saying you view as a lie. Republicans, defenders of Attorney General Barr say, "no, no. This was a- a matter of answering the question regarding members of Mueller's own team disagreeing, not saying that he was not aware that the special counsel personally objected." Why don't you buy that excuse?
SEN. DURBIN: I don't buy it at all. Let's be honest about it. Attorney General Barr not only received that letter from Bob Mueller, saying in writing that he disagreed with the attorney general's characterization of the Mueller report, he then had a telephone conversation with him to follow and to say he wasn't aware of Mueller's misgivings about his characterization. That is at- at the minimum misleading, if not worse deception, to the American people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Now, you did have a chance to ask some questions of attorney- the attorney general, yourself. The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee Lindsey Graham has since issued a letter saying that- offering Robert Mueller the chance to testify specifically about this phone call in conversation with the attorney general. Do you expect him to testify and- and if he declines, do you consider that a closed matter?
SEN. DURBIN: Well I hope it is not a closed matter because there's so many unanswered questions. Remember there are two volumes to the Mueller Report. The first volume deals with Russian interference in our election. Much of that is redacted. We need to know what they did which led to the indictment of Russians by Mueller and led to, I hope, a- a new resolve by the United States to never let it happen again.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So do you expect him to testify? Take Lindsey Graham up on that offer?
SEN. DURBIN: Well, I would take him up on it but I asked him point blank on the record on Thursday in the Senate Judiciary Committee, "are we going to have Bob Mueller before this committee?" And he said no. As far as he was concerned it was over. If he's opened the door now to bring in Bob Miller- Bob Mueller, good. I believe he should testify not only about the first volume on Russian interference but clearly about his conclusions or lack of conclusions on obstruction of justice.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You wrote an op-ed recently challenging the attorney general and saying he should recuse himself from a number of the related investigations that have sprung off the Special Counsel's probe itself. Are you suggesting that the attorney general would medal in ongoing investigations regarding the president?
SEN. DURBIN: I'm not going to suggest that. But I'll tell you this, for the sake of justice and in light of what we've seen in the rollout of Bob Barr, or Bill Barr's rollout of this Mueller Report, he should recuse himself. 14 different matters are being investigated because the Mueller in- inquiry, the Muller investigation and Mr. Barr should not be a hindrance or raise any questions about whether this is going to be a- an investigation and a prosecution with total integrity. He has raised that question because of his characterization of Mueller testimony.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So should he resign?
SEN. DURBIN: Well I- I've not called for resignations. Some of my colleagues have. But recusal? Yes. He should withdraw himself from any of the results that are leading- could possibly lead to prosecutions because the Mueller investigation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But aren't you concerned that this could just you know in some ways strengthen the president's decision to take this as a fighting matter, make this a matter of partisan politics. He clearly feels that the Mueller report, in his words, exonerated him and that this is a fight he wants to have in the public space.
SEN. DURBIN: Well, the Mueller Report expressly said it was neither exonerating him or finding him guilty. And that's what led to the conclusion by Mr. Barr and Mr. Rosenstein when it came to the obstruction of justice. But as far as I'm concerned, there's work to be done on the Mueller Report in Volume 1 to protect us from Russian interference. The fact that the president of the United States had this conversation with Vladimir Putin, within the last several days, and didn't raise this issue after the Mueller report, what is he thinking? We don't want to relive what happened in 2016 in the United States. The Russians ought to take their hands off of our election process.
Senator thank you for joining us this morning. Thanks.
