Transcript: French President Emmanuel Macron on "Face the Nation," April 18, 2021
The following is a transcript of an interview with French President Emmanuel Macron that aired Sunday, April 18, 2021, on "Face the Nation."
MARGARET BRENNAN: France's COVID death toll just reached 100-thousand, and the country is currently in its third national lockdown. We spoke with French President Emmanuel Macron from Élysée Palace in Paris earlier and asked when those restrictions will be lifted in France, and when Americans can travel there again.
PRESIDENT MACRON: We will progressively lift the restrictions of the beginning of May, which means that we will organize in the summertime with our professionals in France for French European citizens, but as well for American citizens. So we are working hard to propose a very concrete solution, especially for U.S. citizens who are vaccinated, so with a special pass, I would say.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Have you worked that out with the White House?
PRESIDENT MACRON: We- we, yes, we started to discuss that. Now our ministers in charge are finalizing the technical discussions. In terms of method, in fact, we are building a European certificate to facilitate the travels after these restrictions between the different European countries with testing and vaccination. And the idea indeed is altogether to offer that to the American citizen when they decided to vaccinate or with a- a PCR test being negative. So the idea is indeed to always control the virus, to maximize the vaccination and to progressively lift the restrictions.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr. President, the European Union has been slow. As you know, that has hurt your country in rolling out these vaccines. Given that you need vaccines right now, are you going to buy Russia's Sputnik vaccine to make up for the shortfall.
PRESIDENT MACRON: Because of the fact that we accelerated production in Europe, we are definitely catching up and we will be in the situation to meet our targets with what we have now. There are a few member-states decided to have a discussion with Sputnik, but we have a- very few simple principles. First, if there is no recognition of a vaccine by our European sanitary authorities, there is no way to use this vaccine on our soil. And at this stage, the Russian vaccine is not recognized by our authorities. So I don't think that the Russian vaccine today is a solution to an acceleration because it will take time to have the authorization of the European agency and it will take time to produce on our continent such a vaccine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When will you give away that five percent of vaccine doses that you say rich countries like yours should give to poor countries?
PRESIDENT MACRON: If we don't vaccinate in these countries, there is no way to get rid of the virus. Because if we leave this country is being contaminated by COVID-19 in South and Latin America, in Africa, you will have more and more people being contaminated. You will have new variants and they will come back in our countries. So I think this is not sufficient just to be focused on the rich countries. OK, so one year ago we launched this initiative. This is to help them to vaccinate, and this is to help them basically as well to precisely improve their health system, because this is as important as vaccination diagnostics and treatments. We started to do so. Now we have to accelerate. And this is where I do believe your country has a huge role because you can provide financing. And I- I want to thank the US for the four billion committed to COVAX, which is the vehicle to provide vaccines, but as well for the doses we will send altogether. And I think between now and June, we have to send a maximum doses of vaccine, which is a tiny part of what we get for us, to vaccinate the- the workers of the healthcare system in Africa. It's very limited, but these guys are working hard to preserve the health system and this is something we can do. And same in Latin America.
PRESIDENT MACRON: After summer, we will accelerate these deliveries. We will accelerate this solidarity. And on top of that, what we have to provide is financing as well for these economies.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll have more of our interview in our next half hour, stay with us.
(Commercial Break)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to Face the Nation. Thursday is Earth Day and President Biden will be hosting a global virtual summit to discuss the climate challenges facing us all. CBS News is devoting this week to an extensive look at climate change in our series Eye on Earth: Our Planet in Peril. We pick up our interview with French President Emmanuel Macron on just that topic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about climate. President Biden brought the US back into that Paris climate change accord three months ago, but hardly any of the countries that signed it, including yours, have actually met their targets. And now President Biden is going to ask for further cuts to emissions. What makes you think it'll be achievable this time?
PRESIDENT MACRON: Yes, I think because now it's time to deliver. It's time to rush, and President Biden is 100% right to do so. But I think the decision taken by your president in general this year was super important. Welcome back. I was extremely happy because now the U.S. and the federal government decided to join again and to commit. Second, as Europeans, we increased our targets for 2030 and 2050 a few months ago because indeed we were lagging behind in comparison with our targets. And now we have to accelerate because we are living the first consequences of basically climate disorders.
PRESIDENT MACRON: This is even more urgent than five years ago. So your president is right to increase--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But don't you need China and India--
PRESIDENT MACRON: --the targets. I think--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --to make new commitments?
PRESIDENT MACRON: Yes, you're right. We need two things. We need to accelerate innovation and ability to deliver. We need India and China to be with us. India is very committed and they- they are an emerging country. This is a huge democracy with a lot of inequality to deal with. But they launched with us this solar initiative two years, three years ago now. They are improving the system and they committed to reduce especially HFC emissions since they are super super-polluters, and even worse than CO2. China remained in Paris Agreement. They increased the targets, but they are still for carbon neutrality in 2060 and a peak in 2030. Chancellor Merkel, we had a discussion with President Xi and I think we- we felt the commitments of President Xi on climate to work with the US and with Europe. First to accelerate its target of 2030 to have the peak emission, and in some cities and some regions to do better and faster.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Don't leaders like yourself need to just speak plainly to the public and say, look, this needs to happen. It may cost you your job. It may mean prices go up. But this is a price that all of you have to pay in order to meet these targets?
PRESIDENT MACRON: Look, I think obviously we will have to change a lot of things in our economy. We have to increase the price of carbon and we have to help this transition to happen for entrepreneurs and our households. If you go to them, I mean, the White House or the Élysée Palace to say, now, guys, you will have to adapt yourself, you will pay a much higher price and so on, I can tell you- you will increase social inequalities. I- I did such a mistake, I have to say, and I can- here, I can tell you in 2018 because we underestimate the impact on middle classes. So you have to accompany people. And we have to accept for a few years to invest public money in these transitions to help innovation and diffusion of this innovation. You have to accept to change business models and behavior of investors to finance green investments and to penalize those who don't make this move. And you have to accept to accompany your households to make these investments and make it feasible for them. We have to help middle classes and poor people to make this change with us. This is a comprehensive and inclusive agenda. I'm- I'm sure about that now. And I can tell you with a lot of humility, I'm even more sure because I- I made mistakes myself.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr. President, there are roughly 31,000 Russian troops amassed on the border of Ukraine right now. What will France do if Vladimir Putin invades?
PRESIDENT MACRON: I think the situation is unacceptable, Russia, has to de-escalate. This is clear. The situation today and the level of tension at the border is absolutely counterproductive and unacceptable. We want now a political process to deal with some Ukrainian regions and to pacify- for stability and peace for Ukraine and Ukrainian people--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But Vladimir Putin has blown that off for years. And- and sanctions have not stopped him. Those diplomatic efforts have not stopped him. You yourself have referenced NATO as being "brain dead." What is actually going to stop Vladimir Putin from invading?
PRESIDENT MACRON: Look, I think what happened a few years ago when Ukraine was invaded, it's not a failure of diplomacy, it's a failure of our collective credibility vis-à-vis Russia. And I think when we put red lines, we have to make them re- respected by our people and- and the others. And I think we have to be clear and tough. It was a failure of a naive approach vis-à-vis Russia. I'm- I'm- I'm definitely in favor of discussion with Russia, with an open, quiet and respectful discussion with Russia. But I think that when we put red lines, we have to be sure to be credible and to make these red lines respected by the others.
PRESIDENT MACRON: Now in Ukraine, if we want to be efficient, we have to accelerate the diplomatic agenda and US, Europe, all of us have to be very clear vis-à-vis Russia. We will never accept a new military operations on Ukrainian soil and we have to build the way to be credible vis-à-vis that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think that what President Biden did with sanctions will have any- make any difference to Vladimir Putin this time? Will it stop him?
PRESIDENT MACRON: I think we- we need an approach to be clear, based on- on- on- on two pillars, one dialogue and I- I fully share, as well as the willingness of your president to dialogue. And I'm sure that President Putin can be ready to reopen dialogue. But if we want a better system in terms of arms control, if we want to stabilize a lot of existing crises in the world today, we need an open and frank dialogue with Russia. On the other side we have to be clear--
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you will- will you sanction Russia if he invades?
PRESIDENT MACRON: --when- when- when we are not aligned. And I think after an unacceptable behavior, indeed, we have to sanction. This is what we did after Ukraine or after a- a series of crises which happen. And I think we have to define clear redlines with Russia.
PRESIDENT MACRON: This is the only way to be credible. I think that sanctions are not sufficient in itself, in themselves, but sanctions are part of the package.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr. President, I'm being told that we are running out of time, but I want to thank you for your time today.
PRESIDENT MACRON: Thank you very much. No, I was happy to have the opportunity to answer your questions, and- and I- I- I just want to pass a very clear and simple message.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
PRESIDENT MACRON: I think we are all of us, in- in the middle of a terrible crisis and a lot of fears: COVID-19, climate change, and so- insecurity, inequalities and so on. I do believe that our common values- I do believe that our strong faith in open and liberal democracies is the best way to address these challenges. We will have to invent a new model. We will have to regulate this capitalism. We will have to deal with- with inequalities. We will have to reinvent a new narrative and new actions, new investment in green technologies, new cooperation for vaccination. I think we have the opportunity to do it together and to build and invent our future. I'm a strong believer in this positive and ambitious agenda together, and I hope we will deliver hand-in-hand together, thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will watch for that Mr. President, thank you.
The following is a transcript of Margaret Brennan's full interview with French President Emmanuel Macron
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Paris, France, for a special interview with French President Emmanuel Macron. Mr. President, welcome to FACE THE NATION.
PRESIDENT EMMANUEL MACRON: Welcome. Happy to see you and welcome in Paris,
MARGARET BRENNAN: How and when will you lift the COVID restrictions? Will vaccinated Americans be able to visit France this summer?
PRESIDENT MACRON: I hope so, and I do think so. Look, we are- we are catching up and definitely we are vaccinating more and more people. We vaccinated more than 12 million people. We have made May the objective of 20- 20 million, 30 million mid-June. And at the end of the summer, all the adults will be offered a vaccine, which means that we are progressing and we are- we will progressively lift the restrictions of the beginning of May, which means that we will organize in the summer time with our professionals in France for French European citizens, but as well for American citizens. So we are working hard to propose a very concrete solution, especially for U.S. citizens who are vaccinated, so with a special pass, I would say.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Have you worked that out with the White House?
PRESIDENT MACRON: We- we, yes, we started to discuss that. Now our ministers in charge are finalizing the technical discussions. In terms of method, in fact, we are building a European certificate to facilitate the travels after these restrictions between the different European countries with testing and vaccination. And the idea indeed is altogether to offer that to the American citizen when they decided to vaccinate or with a- a PCR test being negative. So the idea is indeed to always control the virus, to maximize the vaccination and to progressively lift the restrictions and have them, I mean, the best possible summer with the- the opportunity for your citizen to come to- in our country, because this is something we are very proud in.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Your government said it will still administer about 200,000 doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, even though exports are currently halted from the US. Do you think it was a mistake for the US to halt those exports?
PRESIDENT MACRON: Look, I think all of us did learn from the very beginning of this crisis. I think the US made a tremendous job in terms of innovation and acceleration just to- to get these new vaccines as the mRNA type of vaccine and to produce very rapidly. Now, as I told you, we are catching up. And definitely we decided- we- we decided to be much more open. But now for me, we have to look at the future. Where are we altogether? The United States and Europe, we have to accelerate vaccination. We want to leave the maximum possible measures and to control the pandemic. And we want to cooperate because when you look today at the- at the figures and the realities, you are producing a lot of vaccines. But to produce these vaccines, you do need the European for some ingredients and- and so on. And in Europe, we are buying more and more vaccines, but we are producing more and more vaccines. And this year we will produce- we will have 2.5 billion doses in 2021, but we will produce more and more doses. And we will be in the situation to be number one in terms of- of production and to be partner with the US. So I think for me now the question is how we can team up for the coming months and years, because definitely we will need vaccines for the end of 2021.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
PRESIDENT MACRON: But probably we will need boosters and additional vaccines because- in order to to deal with the variants. And we have to team up together to help the rest of the world to be vaccinated. So for me now everything is about acceleration, more production in Europe and in the US and partnership for our people, but as well as the rest of the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But, Mr. President, the European Union has been slow. As you know, that has hurt your country in rolling out these vaccines. Given that you need vaccines right now, are you going to buy Russia's Sputnik vaccine to make up for the shortfall?
PRESIDENT MACRON: Look, I think now, thanks to the acceleration of the deliveries, especially- we had additional doses coming from Pfizer for the second quarter, and because of the fact that we accelerated production in Europe, we are definitely catching up and we will be in the situation to meet our targets with what we have now. There are a few member-states decided to have a discussion with Sputnik, but we have a- very few simple principles. First, if there is no recognition of a vaccine by our European sanitary authorities, there is no way to use this vaccine on our soil. And at this stage, the Russian vaccine is not recognized by our authorities. We have a discussion, but it will take weeks not to say months. Second, for me, it makes sense first, to produce vaccines based on our research and being invented and produced with our industries. So I will prioritize European vaccination and vaccination with our partners. So I don't think that the Russian vaccine today is a solution to an acceleration because it will take time to have the authorization of the European agency and it will take time to produce on our continent such a vaccine. And I think it's much more efficient to accelerate production of Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Johnson & Johnson, Valneva, Sanofi, which is arriving in a few months, and some others, and CureVac. So I think we have to focus on these first types of vaccine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When will you give away that five percent of vaccine doses that you say rich countries like yours should give to poor countries?
PRESIDENT MACRON: Look, one year ago, we started to have such an initiative called ACT-A, which is an initiative endorsed by the G20 for full solidarity vis-à-vis the of poor countries for very simple reasons, for moral and ethical reasons, but as well for pragmatic reasons, because all the poor countries are hurt as we are by this pandemic. But their economy is sometimes destroyed or very traumatized by the consequences of the pandemic and because if we don't vaccinate in these counties, there is no way to get rid of the virus. Because if we leave this country is being contaminated by COVID-19 in South and Latin America, in Africa, you will have more and more people being contaminated. You will have new variants and they will come back in our countries. So I think this is not sufficient just to be focused on the rich countries. OK, so one year ago we launched this initiative. This is to help them to vaccinate, and this is to help them basically as well to precisely improve their health system, because this is as important as vaccination diagnostics and treatments. We started to do so. Now we have to accelerate. And this is where I do believe your country has a huge role because you can provide financing. And I- I want to thank the US for the four billion committed to COVAX, which is the vehicle to provide vaccines, but as well for the doses we will send altogether. And I think between now and June, we have to send a maximum doses of vaccine, which is a tiny part of what we get for us, to vaccinate the- the workers of the healthcare system in Africa. It's very limited, but these guys are working hard to preserve the health system and this is something we can do. And same in Latin America.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
PRESIDENT MACRON: After summer, we will accelerate these deliveries. We will accelerate this solidarity. And on top of that, what we have to provide is financing as well for these economies. But it is essential, and I think this is another way where the partnership between the US and Europe is absolutely critical and this is how we can provide such a powerful project for the rest of the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about climate. President Biden brought the US back into that Paris climate change accord three months ago, but hardly any of the countries that signed it, including yours, have actually met their targets. And now President Biden is going to ask for further cuts to emissions. What makes you think it'll be achievable this time?
PRESIDENT MACRON: Yes, I think because now it's time to deliver. It's time to rush, and President Biden is 100% right to do so. First of all, I- I want to say that during the four previous years, your citizens, entrepreneurs, your investors, some of your states, I mean, were very committed to the Paris Agreement and to this end- and did reduce their emission. But I think the decision taken by your president in general this year was super important. Welcome back. I was extremely happy because now the U.S. and the federal government decided to join again and to commit. Second, as Europeans, we increased our targets for 2030 and 2050 a few months ago because indeed we were lagging behind in comparison with our targets. And now we have to accelerate because we are living the first consequences of basically climate disorders. And I think it's not something we are doing just for the future generation, which is extremely important. But it is now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
PRESIDENT MACRON: This is even more urgent than five years ago. So your president is right to increase--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But don't you need China and India--
PRESIDENT MACRON: --the targets. I think--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --to make new commitments?
PRESIDENT MACRON: Yes, you're right. We need two things. We need to accelerate innovation and ability to deliver. And I'm a strong believer in some tough decision to stop coal plants, to stop all the CO2 emission to produce our energy. This is why I do believe in nuclear renewables and to accelerating this strategy, we have now to modernize our way to produce in terms of mobility, I mean, our cars, our houses and so on. We have to reduce the CO2 emission. So this is an agenda of innovation thanks to green technologies. This is an agenda of investment. This is exactly what we did with the European package and recovery plan and the French recovery plan and what now your federal government is doing. So first, if we want to reduce targets, we have to accelerate innovation and investment and to- too bring everybody in on this project. On top of that, you're right, we need India and China to be with us. India is very committed and they- they are an emerging country. This is a huge democracy with a lot of inequality to deal with. But they launched with us this solar initiative two years, three years ago now. They are improving the system and they committed to reduce especially HFC emissions since they are super super polluters, and even worse than CO2. China remained in Paris Agreement. They increased the targets, but they are still for carbon neutrality in 2060 and a peak in 2030. This morning with Chancellor Merkel, we had a discussion with President Xi and I think we- we felt the commitments of President Xi on climate to work with the US and with Europe for us to accelerate its target of 2030 to have the peak emission, and in some cities and some regions to do better and faster. Second, he announced this morning its decision to join was what we called the Kigali Amendment, which means to reduce the HFC emissions for its countries, which is really important to fight against--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But don't- but don't- don't leaders like yourself need to just speak plainly to the public and say, look, this needs to happen. It may cost you your job. It may mean prices go up. But this is a price that all of you have to pay in order to meet these targets?
PRESIDENT MACRON: Look, I think obviously we will have to change a lot of things in our economy. And I- I think what we have to do is an agenda of investment and innovation, but indeed, we have to increase the price of carbon and we have to help this transition to happen for entrepreneurs and our households. If you go to them, I mean, the White House or the Élysée Palace to say, now, guys, you will have to adapt yourself, you will pay a much higher price and so on, I can tell you you will increase social inequalities. I- I did such a mistake, I have to say, and I can- here, I can tell you in 2018 because we underestimate the impact on middle classes. So you have to accompany people. And this agenda is a green and social agenda, is a green and investment agenda. And we have to accept for a few years to invest public money in these transitions to help innovation and diffusion of this innovation. You have to accept to change business models and behavior of investors to finance green investments and to penalize those who don't make this move. And you have to accept to accompany your households to make these investments and make it feasible for them. This is something to telling you, this is a revolution, but this is a revolution if you want it to happen. We have to help middle classes and poor people to make this change with us. This is a comprehensive and inclusive agenda. I'm- I'm sure about that now. And I can tell you with a lot of humility, I'm even more sure because I- I made mistakes myself.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr. President, there are roughly 31,000 Russian troops amassed on the border of Ukraine right now. What will France do if Vladimir Putin invades?
PRESIDENT MACRON: I think the situation is unacceptable, and Chancellor Merkel and myself spoke with President Putin a few days ago. I received a few hours ago President Zelensky, president of Ukraine, and we had a discussion as well with- with Chancellor Merkel. And we- we sent a very clear message totally in line with the one delivered by President Biden. Russia, has to deescalate. This is clear. The situation today and the level of tension at the border is absolutely counterproductive and unacceptable. And we- we- we are fully committed in what we call the Normandy format, Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France to deliver- I mean, following the Minsk agreement, i.e., we want now a political process to deal with some Ukrainian regions and to pacify- for stability and peace for Ukraine and Ukrainian people--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But Vladimir Putin has blown that off for years. And- and sanctions have not stopped him. Those diplomatic efforts have not stopped him. You yourself have referenced NATO as being "brain dead." What is actually going to stop Vladimir Putin from invading?
PRESIDENT MACRON: Look, I think what happened a few years ago when Ukraine was invaded, it's not a failure of diplomacy, it's a failure of our collective credibility vis-à-vis Russia. And I think when we put red lines, we have to make them re- respected by our people and- and the others. And I think we have to be clear and tough. And I think what happened first in Syria provided the feeling to President Putin that now it was a part of rebels and it provoked and basically invaded Ukraine. Right after that, we launched precisely the Minsk process, which was the beginning of a diplomatic agenda. And I cannot tell that this is a failure of diplomacy. It was a failure of a naïve approach vis-à-vis Russia. I'm- I'm- I'm definitely in favor of discussion with Russia, with an open, quiet and respectful discussion with Russia. But I think that when we put red lines, we have to be sure to be credible and to make these red lines respected by the authors. And to be clear, when Russia doesn't respect it or reassure its partner, this is what happened in Syria in 2018. And together with the US and UK, we intervene in an operation precisely Assad's use of chemical weapons. Now--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.
PRESIDENT MACRON: --in Ukraine, if we want to be efficient, we have to accelerate the diplomatic agenda and US, Europe, all of us have to be very clear vis-à-vis Russia. We will never accept a new military operations on Ukrainian soil and we have to build the way to be credible vis-à-vis that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think that what President Biden did with sanctions will have any- make any difference to Vladimir Putin this time? Will it stop him?
PRESIDENT MACRON: I think we- we need an approach to be clear, based on- on- on- on two pillars, one dialogue and I- I fully share, as well as the willingness of your president to dialogue. And I'm sure that President Putin can be ready to reopen dialogue. But if we want a better system in terms of arms control, if we want to stabilize a lot of existing crises in the world today, we need an open and frank dialogue with Russia. On the other side we have to be clear--
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you will- will you sanction Russia if he invades?
PRESIDENT MACRON: --when- when- when we are not aligned. And I think after an unacceptable behavior, indeed, we have to sanction. This is what we did after Ukraine or after a- a series of crises which happen. And I think we have to define clear redlines with Russia.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
PRESIDENT MACRON: This is the only way to be credible. I think that sanctions are not sufficient in itself, in themselves, but sanctions are part of the package. I do prefer constructive dialogue, but to have a constructive and efficient dialogue, you need credibility.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, understood. Mr. President, race is a very heated topic in this country right now. And I want to ask you about something you recently said. France is a former colonial power, but you said in comparison of our two countries, "I'm sure of one thing, we are not the United States of America. We have a preference for equality that is founded- that is not found in the US. Our values are not quite the same. We have an attachment to social democracy, to more equality." What do you mean by that?
PRESIDENT MACRON: I think the United States and Europe are- are facing common challenges, arrays of inequalities and hatred speeches and so on, and tensions in our societies. And race arrives, I would say on top of that, because we didn't fix this issue. And this is an existing question in our society. In your society, you had segregation and you managed to- to precisely react and reorganize your society in the 60s with positive and affirmative action and nuclear policies, in order to deal with this phenomenon. Our history is very different because we were colonial states and we are now- we- we are at the center and we were and we are still contraries of immigration with a lot of people coming from former colonies and from, for instance, African continent. And we have definitely this question of race, which is at the- at the very core of our society, and creating a lot of tensions where when people- people basically are victims of discrimination and when people are pushing racist speech, racism or unacceptable speeches. My conviction is that we have to address this issue by- by first transparency and fair assessment. This is why I launched new platforms to fight against discrimination, racism and so on. Second, a quiet and open dialogue to understand how it happened and in a certain way to deconstruct our own history. But without any confusion, our histories are very different. The way we behaved in the past, the way we built our own trauma are very different, even if we have common phenomena. So I think we have- we need basically to- to go to the very roots of this phenomenon. But we need to launch new, concrete and determined policies to get rid of racism in our society. This is critical. But third, we have to rebuild the unity of our societies. And one of the big risks today is to be inefficient in dealing with discrimination and to, in a certain way, to push to the fragmentation in all societies by, I would say, encouraging a sort of construction where a nation would be the addition of different races or addition of different minorities. I don't think so. I think a nation is based on unity with differences, is based on unity of projects, and we should never accept the fragmentation of this project through all this difference and specificities. So what we need in a certain way on both sides of the Atlantic is a policy of recognition, building our unity by being more efficient against inequalities, against discrimination, and working for unity and recognizing all the differences. This is a huge challenge, but this is one of the critical challenge of our generation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Lastly, sir, you said after the storming of the US Capitol in January that it was a sign of the West's failure to rein in social media companies. You've been talking about taking on big tech. What kind of censorship or regulation are you calling for?
PRESIDENT MACRON: I think once again, this is for me, one of the most important agenda we have together with the United States. We have this agenda on health, with COVID-19, on climate, on inequalities, and in fighting for democracy by regulating these big companies of- of precise social networks. Why? Because today our children, our people are extremely influenced by these social networks and what's happening on these platforms. And we have to regulate- to better regulate the content, respecting free speech, obviously. But by being now- by stopping being naive in a certain way. We started to do so to fight against terrorism with the Christchurch Call. And I do hope your country will join the platform we built with the prime minister of New Zealand and a few other leaders and with some of these entrepreneurs to get rid of any terrorist content in one hour. We did it in Europe, but now we have to fight against anti-Semitism, racism, hatred speeches on social networks. This is by precisely engaging these platforms, but this is by regulating them. So I think for the coming months and years,--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But who would regulate them?
PRESIDENT MACRON: --the US European agenda. This is a common agenda. You have to regulate them saying when you are in the streets, it's forbidden to be racist, to be anti-Semitic--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Isn't that censorship?
PRESIDENT MACRON: No, I- I- I would not say this is censorship, because if you are on the street with me, you cannot insult somebody like that. Your law, my law, do penalize such behavior. You cannot hide your face and certainly hurt somebody. You cannot push people to go to kill other people. This is forbidden when you go in the streets, in public space. But today, concretely, it's not forbidden on social media. So what we have to do is to create a new public order on social media, because this is public space, because this is the place where our children, our young people, our people spend hours a day. So we need the same rule because without public order on this space, there is no more freedom. So, yes, you need regulation, but common regulation in US and Europe. And when I say you have to regulate them, you have to regulate unacceptable content. You have to regulate them and to- to give responsibility principle for the editors of these- in this part. And you have to tax them, because a lot of these players are not fairly taxed and are competitors with the rest of the economy and real economy. This is why I do believe in a common agenda in OECD for a common taxation of internet and social media companies. This is absolutely critical.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Mr. President, I'm being told that we are running out of time, but I want to thank you for your time today.
PRESIDENT MACRON: Thank you very much. No, I was happy to have the opportunity to answer your questions, and- and I- I- I just want to pass a very simple message.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
PRESIDENT MACRON: I think we are all of us, in- in the middle of a terrible crisis and a lot of fears: COVID-19, climate change, and so- insecurity, inequalities and so on. I do believe that our common values- I do believe that our strong faith in open and liberal democracies is the best way to address these challenges. We will have to invent a new model. We will have to regulate this capitalism. We will have to deal with- with inequalities. We will have to reinvent a new narrative and new actions, new investment in green technologies, new cooperation for vaccination. I think we have the opportunity to do it together and to build and invent our future. I'm a strong believer in this positive and ambitious agenda together, and I hope we will deliver hand-in-hand together, thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will watch for that Mr. President, thank you.
