Part II: Vladimir Putin

Wallace asks Putin about the events in Moscow marking the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II in Europe.

WALLACE: In the spotlight of the world, the spotlight of the world at this moment -- 50, 60 world leaders, including George W. Bush, commemorate the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II. With all of the heads of state here, what do you hope to accomplish, Mr. President?

TRANSLATOR: What you are talking about in particular? Would you specify?

WALLACE: I can specify. This was your idea to begin with. This particular victory celebration. Parade – 60th anniversary of the end of World War II. Why did you want to do that?

TRANSLATOR: I think what I'm going to say is common knowledge, but I think this helps us to understand better where we are at the moment and to identify the prospects for the development.

WALLACE: The development of what?

TRANSLATOR: The development of a country, of the world community in general. Relations between states in the international arena, for instance. Identification of principles or relations between peoples and countries.

WALLACE: OK.

TRANSLATOR: The war against Nazism, this absolute evil, brought together most of the countries and people of the world, and it was a very good example of cooperation.

WALLACE: Do you--

TRANSLATOR: We should not forget the atrocities of war, and we should not forget the things that brought us together, that united us, and that we need to unite our efforts again to counter contemporary threats and challenges. And we can't ever forget the victims of the Second World War. We have to look into the future and fight for the future of human kind. I am absolutely convinced that we have to reach historical reconciliation.

WALLACE: The collapse of the Soviet Union resulted in the liberation of Eastern Europe. Yes? But last week you called the collapse of the Soviet Union, "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century." What does that mean?

TRANSLATOR: The United States carefully guards and protects the interests of its people. The United States protects the interests of its citizens. Just imagine that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, 25 million Russians living in the now-independent states found themselves beyond the Russian territory. Twenty five million turned out to be foreigners of Russia. Isn't that a tragedy? They just woke up one morning and learned that they had nothing to do with Russia anymore. They lived in other states, and so they have to become accustom to life in those countries as ethnic minorities. I can assure you they face significant problems in many of those countries.

Take for instance the Baltic states. Do you know that there are some IDs there in which on the line for "nationality," it says, "Non-citizen." Modern citizenship laws operate with such notions as citizen, foreigner, a person with double citizenship, an expatriate. For someone who lost his or her citizenship, who are those people? This is an absolute breach of the modern humanitarian law. Also, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, people lost all of their life savings. So definitely, in the light of the collapse of the social system, this was a great tragedy for millions of people.

WALLACE:
They're pressing us to end the interview, so-- just a few more.

TRANSLATOR: Well, nobody can be pressing us because I'm the president.

WALLACE: What's happening to the Russian people? Marriages are down. Divorces are up. Three out of four marriages now end in divorce in your country. Alcoholism is up. Life expectancy has dropped from 70 to 65. What goes on in Russia?

TRANSLATOR: Well, definitely we will speak about that.

WALLACE: Go ahead. We're talking about Russia. Life in Russia seems to have changed. Why? Is it something about permissiveness? Is it something about corruption? What is it?

TRANSLATOR: Well, since the social security system of the previous years has collapsed, the support of families has become inadequate. Medical care is inefficient, ineffective.

WALLACE: Health care is a shambles in Russia?

TRANSLATOR: Well, I wouldn't say a shambles, but we do have certain problems. In order to change the system, we need, first of all, to change the mindset. This also demands certain changes in the legislation. All this must be done in a careful, step-by-step way so that additional problems aren't caused. The issues you have raised really do exist, and in my view it is worse then it was during the Soviet period.

But compared to the early or mid-'90s, it isn't any worse now. The collapse of the healthcare system and of social security system happened in the late 1980s and in the mid-1990s. The Soviet system worked in a more steady way. In the shift to a market economy; with the increasing responsibility of the regions for their healthcare, social services and education; and with the lack of sources of financing in the regions, the old system has turned out to be absolutely unacceptable.

The new system has not yet been established. So all those issues -- education, social security issues, and healthcare -- are very sensitive problems that we have to solve. WALLACE: OK. Corruption is every place in Russia. Agreed? Why? To get anything done, money. You want an apartment? A bribe. You want a job? A bribe. You wanna get people to service you in various ways? A bribe. Why? And you know who tells me this? My Russian friends. They're disgusted by it, but they say it's a fact of life. Corruption in Russia.

TRANSLATOR: Have your American friends never told you about corruption in the United States--

WALLACE: Of course.

TRANSLATOR: -- or in any other countries?

WALLACE: -- about it. Of course. We talk about it.

TRANSLATOR: And we speak about our problems too. It's connected to what you asked me about before: the oligarchs. For their own benefit, they took advantage of state institutions, which caused low-level government officials at those institutions to say, "Why don't I act the same way?"

WALLACE: That's correct. If they can do it, I can do it.

TRANSLATOR: This infiltration of business into the government structures provides fertile soil for corruption in the country. Let's not forget that we can fight this only if we are successful in developing those things we discussed before: an independent media, efficient institutions of civil society, and a multi-partied system. We understand this very well, and it's what we're going to do. At the same time, we'll be increasing the efficiency of the state and the work of the law enforcement bodies, which are obligated to fight corruption.

WALLACE:
The truth, if you dare. How would you like to see Russia, like China, a one party state?

TRANSLATOR: Well, this is absolutely impossible for us. For Russia it is impossible.

WALLACE: Why?

TRANSLATOR: Because we have a different political culture. By and large Russia is a country of European culture. I think that if we go backward and don't allow for the development of a real multi-partied system, then Russia will forfeit a lot in its development.

WALLACE: Do you resent getting lectures about democracy from President Bush, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, and the Western media?

TRANSLATOR: Well, they don't lecture me, but I hear about their views.

WALLACE: Well, in Bratislava, the president said, "Hey, get with democracy." He said it not in those words, but in effect that's what he was saying to you. And that's what Condoleezza Rice said to you: Get with democracy.

TRANSLATOR: Well, Condoleezza said nothing of that sort to me personally. I know their point of view on this, and I hear and understand what they're saying. I have already stated my views on this, and can repeat it.

WALLACE: You don't have to. You've agreed to disagree. Russia has the democracy that you believe Russia should have, and the United States should butt out.

TRANSLATOR: Not quite so. I said that we would gratefully accept opinions from the outside. Moreover, we are prepared to make use of that advice and of the experiences and practices of other countries such as the United States, which has a long history of democracy.

WALLACE: True.

TRANSLATOR: I say this with great respect, but we are against the United States using this issue to attain its own goals and as a way of putting on pressure. For example, we think it is absolutely unacceptable to be told what Russia should do in order to join the World Trade Organization. Cuba is a member of the WTO, the World Trade Organization. Do they have more democracy than we do?

WALLACE: Do you want to be a member of the World Trade Organization?

TRANSLATOR: Russia is one of the largest nations that does not belong to the WTO, and if the condition are acceptable to us, we would be prepared to join the organization. WALLACE: Who is your Dick Cheney -- a wise old hand who took George W. Bush aside and said, "Look, let me advise you. Let me help you. Let's counsel together."

TRANSLATOR: Why do you think that we should always be copying the American experience, the American tradition?

WALLACE: And you don't need a Dick Cheney?

TRANSLATOR: Well, we have many people like him, and we regularly talk with them. You'll notice that I recently visited the Middle East and as part of our delegation I brought along Mr. Primakov because he has dedicated a significant part of his life to studying the Middle East.

WALLACE: Right.

TRANSLATOR: We don't lack in experts whose experience we can rely on.

WALLACE: President Bush is meeting with the Baltic leaders on his trip here for the celebration. He'll also visit the Republic of Georgia. Do you wish that President Bush were not making these stops? Wish that he might or would stay out of what you consider Russia's sphere of influence?

TRANSLATOR: You are absolutely wrong. Not so. The former Soviet Union republics are now independent states. Remember the Berlin Wall and the liberation of Eastern Europe, which provided independence to the former Soviet Union republics? That was possible due to internal changes in the Russian Federation and changes in our foreign policy.

Those countries can and should develop relationships with all the countries in the world, and we would never tell the President of the United States where to go and where not to go. But I sincerely hope that the President, in his talks with his counterparts in the Baltic states, will use his influence to make the policies of those states more in line with contemporary standards of international humanitarian law, including those aspects that pertain to the national minorities, the ethnic minorities.

WALLACE: Neither--

TRANSLATOR: In Rego, for instance, 60 percent of the population is Russian speaking. There are over one million of Russian-speaking persons, and 460,000 of them are so-called non-citizens. That is absolutely unacceptable in the modern world, because those people are lacking elementary, basic political rights. We hope that the president of the United States will use influence to put the problems of the past in the past.

WALLACE: The Baltic states are not here this weekend, right? They're not coming?

TRANSLATOR: Well, according to my information, the president of Latvia is planning to come.

WALLACE: Estonia?

TRANSLATOR: The presidents of Estonia and Lithuania, as far I know, will not be coming. I think this is a mistake.

WALLACE: In English, what would you like to say to the American people? Or to George Bush?

TRANSLATOR: George Bush? I'll have the privilege of hosting him here in my house.

WALLACE: This weekend?

TRANSLATOR: Yes, and to practice my English with him. As for speaking to the American people--

WALLACE: Yes. In English.

TRANSLATOR: We have great respect toward the American people --

WALLACE: No, no, no. In English.

TRANSLATOR: I want to say a lot, really, but I am afraid to offend Americans with my improper pronunciation.

WALLACE: Don't worry about it.

TRANSLATOR: And at the conclusion I would like to say only one thing.

PRES. PUTIN (WITHOUT TRANSLATOR): All the best to every family in America.

WALLACE: All the best to you too, sir. And thank you for speaking with us.

interview with Vladimir Putin.