Transcript: Nikki Haley on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan," Sept. 8, 2024
The following is a transcript of an interview with Nikki Haley, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" that aired on Sept. 8, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you for making time for us.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: It's great to be with you. Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we don't get to hear from you often, so I've got a lot of territory I want to cover.
AMB. HALEY: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And just right off the bat, you know, when you concluded your campaign, you had 97 delegates in the primaries. You have endorsed Donald Trump. You spoke at the convention, but are you going to campaign for him?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: You know, he knows I'm on standby. I talked to him back in June. He's aware that I'm ready if he ever needs me to do that. You know, I think this election is important. I think that there's a lot at stake. I think we know basically what we're going to get, because we've got two administrations asking to be reelected. And, you know, I look at it from the standpoint of a voter, you know, I worry about my kids. I worry about the fact that the cost of living is so high. You know, the cost of goods is up 20 percent. I look at housing, I saw how hard it was for my daughter and her husband to buy a home, and how the average home buyer in America is 49-years-old. I look at immigration, I worry about safety, I worry about domestically foreign entities coming in, and the threats that we could face. I worry about national security, globally, and what's happening with our allies around the world. And, you know, you look at energy, and the fact that if we don't have a strong energy base, we're going to continue to have issues as well. And so there's just a lot going on. To me, the stark contrast between a Trump and Harris administration are what led me to say, yes, I need to, you know, I'm going to be voting with Trump, and I'm going to speak at the convention. And so that's what I did.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You said you're on standby. In other words, you haven't been asked to campaign. Are you advising at all on his debate preparation or speaking to the campaign?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: I'm not and you know, that's his choice. He can, you know, whatever he decides to do with his campaign, he can do that. But when I called him back in June, I told him I was supportive. I think the teams have talked to each other a little bit, but there hasn't been an ask as of yet. But you know, should he ask, I'm happy to be helpful.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So the things you rattled off are specific policy issues. Right here in New York. Donald Trump just finished a press conference, three-quarters of which was about grievances related to that past conviction related to alleged sexual assault. I know when you were campaigning, you said you had no reason really to question the findings of the jury related to the defamation case brought by E. Jean Carroll. I'm not asking you about the specifics of the case, but if that's the focus of a press conference for a presidential candidate, a, is it the best use of his time and what is the message to female voters to be going through this again?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: Well, I think the focus for me is on policy. You know, I think I've always–
MARGARET BRENNAN: But, he's the candidate.
AMB. HALEY: No, and I've always said, look, if I thought Biden or Trump were great candidates, I wouldn't have run for president. I ran because I thought I could do a better job.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You don't think he's a good candidate.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: I think he is the Republican nominee, and I think put him against Kamala Harris, who's the Democrat nominee. For me, it's not a question. Now, do I agree with his style? Do I agree with his approach? Do I agree with his communications? No. When I look at the policies and how they affect my family and how I think they're going to affect the country, that's where I go back and I look at the differences. I mean, this is- these are the candidates we have been given. You look at Kamala Harris, and it's quite remarkable. She never had a debate, she never had a primary, she never had anyone vote for her, and they basically took her, and in 48 hours, they put her back out there, and she was this whole new candidate. But the reality is, she has a record. The administration has a record. Trump has a record. And so neither are perfect, neither are ideal, but when I look at which one, I don't agree with Trump on everything, but I agree with him on a lot of the policies. I don't know that I agree with Harris on many policies at all. And so I think when women go to vote, they're going to look at how does this affect my family? How does this affect our finances? How does this affect safety and national security, and which do we choose from? And so as a voter, the one I went with is with Trump, because I know that I've seen what his policies do. I know our economy was better under Trump. I know our national security was better under Trump. I know that our energy was dominant under Trump, and I know that if we want to look at how we're going to get that back on track, I think he's probably the best candidate we have to do it well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean, you know that we're at record oil production, employment. There's some question, but it's still a very good level, high level of employment.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: But Margaret, look at what happened. I mean, honestly, when I say, I worry about my kids for cost of living. My daughter, I hear her talk about her grocery bill. My son, who just graduated college, buying a home is not even an option. Just being able to afford rent is a big deal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
AMB. HALEY: You can't overlook that. You know, when costs got up, when inflation got up to 9 percent. Yes, it's at 3 percent, got up to 9 percent. You look that we're on the verge of what could be a recession. You see what's happening with unemployment, you know, finding a job for these young kids, it's a big deal. And so you do have to say what led to that inflation? You know, there were two tie breaking votes that Kamala Harris did, the American rescue plan and the inflation Reduction Act, both of those flushed money into our economy and ran inflation up. That's what worries me–
[CROSSTALK]
MARGARET BRENNAN: There was spending under Trump that also contributed to that, but you know that.
AMB. HALEY: –No and listen, Trump was not good on debt. I'll be the first one to say it. He wasn't good on spending, and I hope that we see that happen. But when you look at what the results of the Biden Harris administration, and she was the tie breaking vote. These were massive influences on what caused inflation. She did that. And then you look at even in these projects, all of these U.S. manufacturing stimulus plans that they did, 40 percent of those projects are stalled or paused. All of that wasted money is there. And so look, I have said and blamed Republicans and Democrats for the spending issues, the debt issues, and we better get that underway, because economic security is national security, and we need some more fiscal restraint happening in D.C., and neither party has given us that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So let's talk about the policies, then. One of the things that we know is hurting American families is the high cost of child care. The Federal Reserve said parents typically spend 50 to 70% as much per month on child care as they do on their housing payment, which is usually the largest monthly expense. Yet yesterday, Donald Trump said, "as much as childcare is talked about as being expensive, it's, relatively speaking, not very expensive." That sounds out of touch with the economic statistics.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: I mean, childcare is very expensive. I re- I know, just even at the time that I had little kids, I worked just to pay for our childcare.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, what part of his policy do you like on that? Because you said on your policies, that's what made you back him.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: It is. And what I liked were the tax cuts that he had, that Kamala wants to remove. You know, when he--
MARGARET BRENNAN: She wants to also expand the child tax credit.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: But that's the problem. When you get into child tax credits, you're picking winners and losers. You know what I would rather? I'd rather them just cut middle class taxes across the board. Families need more money for housing, for child care, for gas, for everything, just to live their life. So yeah, you go and you talk about these things, I think they need help with child care. It's a real issue. But I think when you're talking about, you know, whose is better, again, I'm looking at the facts. Under Harris, they raise taxes. Under Trump, they cut taxes. American families are begging for some relief when it comes to cash flow in their households.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know that the child care crisis really spiked during the Trump presidency and COVID.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: It spiked during COVID. Everything spiked during COVID, and I think that what we're looking at now is, it didn't get better under Harris' administration. If anything, it just kept getting worse, and that's because they kept throwing money in, kept printing money. And now, if you look at where she wants to go, you know, I take her at her record, I take her at her word, and now I go and see she wants to increase more taxes. I also see that they want to take money from people- taxpayer money, from people who didn't go to college and pay off the debts of those who did go to college. All of it is- it's a- it's a philosophy and an ideology that causes us to not be able to do more with the dollars that were given, as opposed to not.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you don't like child care tax credits that Trump's proposing either?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: I think child- I think we have to do something to help child care. What I would rather say is, rather than you saying we're going to give child care tax credits, help everybody. Cut middle class taxes, that's really what people need, let them have more money, whether it's housing, whether it's rent, whether it's groceries, whether it's gas, whether it's child care, they need some relief. And so whether- I don't oppose a child care tax credit, but I think cutting middle class taxes across the board is better.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So we know that since Vice President Harris entered the race, the gap among women voters has grown to a now double-digit lead for her over Donald Trump, according to our CBS most recent survey. So how do they close that? Because just as recently as last week, JD Vance said he's disoriented and disturbed that the head of the most powerful teachers' union in the country doesn't have a single child. He continues to say things that certainly are highlighted as being offensive to women. That is going to hurt, won't it, with female voters?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: It's not helpful. It's not helpful. I mean--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is he an- an effective messenger for the policies you say they are stronger on?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: I think that the policy- look, you can either look at style or you can look at substance. I choose as a voter to look at substance. The style, I will say--
MARGARET BRENNAN: What's the substance of that, though?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: The substance is cutting taxes, making housing more affordable, immigration, national security, that's the substance. The style is- no, it is not helpful to talk about whether women have children or whether they don't. It's not helpful to say any of those things that are personality driven or anything else. I have- I have said that, and I will continue to say to Republicans, stop it. That's not helpful. You know, if you want to talk about things, stick with policy. Americans are smart. They don't need all of this other noise to distract them. They just want to know how you're going to help them. And they're- you know, what I would suggest to every American, look at the records of each of them. We had an administration of each of them. We had a Harris administration, we had a Trump administration. And then look at what they say to us now, and make your decisions off of that. And I think when you look at that, you- you've got some stark contrast there. You know, Harris was not strong on the border. Trump was strong on the border. Harris wanted to eliminate fracking. Now she's taking that back, but energy production was not as strong as it was under the Trump administration.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It's at a record high right now, actually, but when you listen to some of the things, you said you don't like handouts, and you're concerned about sort of the fiscal conservativism here. President- former President Trump pledged to mandate that the government and insurance companies pay for fertilization treatments, or IVF treatments, for women. Is that a policy you would support, that insurance companies or the federal government pay for that?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: It's not a policy I support any more than it's a policy of Kamala Harris to remove private health insurance, or Medicare for All. Look, at the end of the day, when--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But this is the head of the Republican Party, this is the Republican nominee.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: I know, but Margaret, you also have to talk about the head of the Democrat party. You know, don't- don't just look at one and not look at the other. When you talk about Medicare for All, when you talk about removing private health insurance, you might as well be Canada. You might as well look at socialist health care. We never want to get to that point, because you're not going to get IVF or anything else, cancer drugs or anything else when it comes to that. When you look at healthcare, we need to know- both of my children were products of fertility. We want that option to be available to everyone. But the way you do it is, you don't mandate coverage. Instead, you go and you make sure that coverage is accessible, and you make sure that you're doing everything you can to make it affordable. That comes with regulations. Kamala has put down- her and Biden put down a lot of regulations on a lot of things. Trump has re- has relieved those regulations so that we need to have more of a- an important policy conversation than sound bites. And I do think this election has become about sound bites, and I think we have to get to the substance of it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It's a fair point, but you're saying, take Kamala Harris, the Vice President, at her word. Why shouldn't we take Donald Trump at his word?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: We should--
MARGARET BRENNAN: These are his policies.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: We should. And I just talked to you about those. I don't think you go and mandate which po- which forms of treatment insurances have to cover. All that does is run the costs up higher.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you- you would still urge people who identify as Republican to support policies that you say are not conservative?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: I don't agree with Trump 100% of the time. I don't have to like him or agree with him 100% of the time to know that life for Americans would be better under the policies where we have strong immigration, where we have law and order, where we have an economy, where we can look at opportunities, where we've got national security that is strong. I don't need to sit there and like someone to decide those policies are better. I do--
MARGARET BRENNAN: -- It's grading on a curve--
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: It's not grading on a curve. I think it's how you look at it. Because I would ask you, how are people going to be better going through the next four years like we have the last four years? Any American will tell you their life is not better. So our goal is, how do we make life better? Instead of making it about the personalities, can we not start saying, what do we all agree about on the policies? Because there's some serious policy concerns. You take the you know, the tax on unrealized gains that Kamala Harris wants to do. Just putting that in eighth grade language, imagine a family who buys a home, $200,000. Two years later, we saw housing go up during COVID, and it's suddenly $400,000. She wants to tax the $200,000 even if you still live in the home, that's an example. Now, the levels are different, but that's an example.
MARGARET BRENNAN: -- So the capital gains tax, that's what you're talking about--
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: -- Right. And so when you look at that- and you haven't even sold the house yet, it's these tax increases that are going to squeeze us more.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you know that the architect of the 2017 Trump tax cuts, Gary Cohn, on Face The Nation, has said that some taxes, possibly corporate taxes are going to have to go up to pay for all the spending that happened, including during COVID.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: But, it's different to say you're going to reverse the tax cuts completely, versus saying you're going to tweak the tax cuts that are there.So--
MARGARET BRENNAN: -- Well, Congress is going to have a say in any of that--
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: -- Absolutely. And I think what we have to do is be smart about it. The debt, I have continued to say $35 trillion in debt is not sustainable, and the only ones that win when we have that kind of debt are China, Russia and Iran. So we need to wake up to that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you about China, because this is a very serious threat picture around the world right now. You were just in Taiwan the first time. Former President Trump said Taiwan should pay us for defense, and the US is no different than an insurance company. How concerned were Taiwanese officials by that comment?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: First of all, when I went to Taiwan, I think it's important that Americans know what I saw. I met with the President, the Vice President, the Defense Minister. We were on a military base. We met with their intelligence officers. The life of a Taiwanese every single day. First of all, they have 30 million cyber attacks a month in Taiwan. They have aggression from air and sea by the Chinese every single week. They- they have continued to have any sort of bullying and suppression- they're not even allowed- you look at the United Nations. Taiwanese aren't even allowed in the building, not their elected officials, not their journalists, not students--
MARGARET BRENNAN: -- But China has veto power, as you know--
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: -- But I wanted to see if Taiwan, if they were victims, waiting for a handout, or what they were saying. And I was so impressed, because they're not waiting for help from anyone. 10 years ago, their Chinese investment was 84%. Today, their Chinese investment is 11%. They are proactively not investing in China. Their mandatory military service starting at 18 years old. They had started at four months. They've now increased it. You have to serve militarily, at 18, for a year. They've, you know, while cutting that investment, they are getting ready militarily. They're doing joint training with America, which is fantastic. They need arms and equipment. We need to learn from Russia and China to give them what they need. In reference to what you said, when it comes to our allies, when it comes to freedom loving countries, we need to be the best friend to them that we can because if China takes Taiwan, what we saw with Russia and Ukraine, it affected 1% of GDP, and you saw the economy shake from that. If China takes Taiwan, it would be 10% of the global GDP. That's $10 trillion dollars compared to the $1 trillion in Ukraine. We need to care about that. We need to care about it from freedom. We need to care about it from the economy. We need to care about it from security. And we need to care about the fact that if Russia takes Ukraine and China takes Taiwan, we can't assume we're going to be okay if we live in a silo, because that's not the case.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What you just laid out is a policy that's strongly in defense of Taiwan.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: It is.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you saying that the next President should commit, because neither JD Vance nor Donald Trump have said that they would send us troops to defend Taiwan?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: I don't think we need to send US troops to defend Taiwan. Taiwan doesn't--
[CROSSTALK]
MARGARET BRENNAN: -- Joe Biden said he would as president. He told my colleague at 60 Minutes, Scott Pelly, that.--
AMB. NIKKI HALEY:-- Taiwan does not want troops. What Taiwan is asking for is joint military training and to partner with us so that they can make weapons to defend themselves, and they want intelligence sharing. Look, I'm the- I'm the wife of a combat veteran. The last thing we want to do is just keep thinking about sending troops if anything. We want to prevent war, the best way to prevent war from China is to start arming Taiwan now and making sure that they're ready. It is not about talking about sending troops or sending even just random cash. It's about doing what it needs to so that China's too scared to even think about it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, they are getting billions that the Congress and the President just–
[CROSS TALK]
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: – and I think that they're
MARGARET BRENNAN: And they're buying U.S. made weapons,
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: and that replenishes our resources, it's a good thing. We want to make sure we do that, but I think we need any spending we do with the country, should be held accountable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well when you were campaigning, you said when President Trump left office, China was militarily stronger than before. They've only increased that in terms of their nuclear development and their expansion of their military. You said, "Trump did not put us on a stronger military foothold in Asia. He did not stop all the theft of American technology. He had moral weakness in trying to befriend President Xi." If this is the threat of this century, how can you say he is the commander in chief you can support now?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: Because I look at what happened under the Harris administration. You look at this situation-
[CROSS TALK]
MARGARET BRENNAN: –but aren't we supposed to judge that record?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: No, we're going to judge both records. So let's first look at the Harris administration. Russia never would have invaded Ukraine. China would not be circling –
[CROSS TALK]
MARGARET BRENNAN: – They were in Ukraine. They did not withdraw from Ukraine.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: No, well go further. They wouldn't have started war with Ukraine and China would not have gotten more aggressive with Taiwan if we not, would have not had that fall in Afghanistan. It's not that we left Afghanistan, it's how we left it. It was dangerous, it was careless and it was weak, and we have suffered ever since. We didn't have any conflicts under Trump. I was his UN Ambassador. We put more sanctions on Russia. We kept China at bay. We let our allies know that they were, that they were protected. All of that happened. Now, what I will say to both Trump and Harris is the worst thing we can do is walk back from our friends right now. And so we need to be a friend to Ukraine, not make them beg. We need to be a friend to Taiwan. Prepare so that China doesn't do it. We need to be a friend to Israel and not say we're going to give you and then take it back like what Harris and Biden did. We've got to start being friends with our allies. I will say it until I'm blue in the face. America can never be so arrogant to think we don't need friends. And you have to be a friend to get a friend. So look, there are no perfect administrations here, by any means, but Trump was definitely stronger when it came to national security, as opposed to the Harris administration. And that's just a fact.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But how can you be confident that he will be? You're talking about four more years when he is saying things like this. He's talking about like a protection racket for Taiwan. They have to pay us.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: No. And I'll be the first one to say that's not the way it should be. I, look, I'm always going to tell you the truth on where I think– this is not blind support for anyone. This is saying don't sit there and threaten Taiwan that you're going to, on being friends. This is, they have 50% of our chip production. They are a friend and ally to us, and they're a democracy. Let's have, if anything, this is what I would tell Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. What you need to do with Taiwan is help them economically, militarily, diplomatically. Economically, we should have a free trade agreement with Taiwan without question. Diplomatically, we should, we should require that Taiwan become a member in the United Nations and in the World Health Organization. And militarily, we should do whatever we can to joint exercise, share intelligence, and do what we can. Think about what happened during Covid. The one, the one group that kind of spread the alarm bells was Taiwan. They said there's a virus coming from China. World Health Organization wouldn't listen to them, because they're not a member. UN wouldn't listen to them. What did China do? The total opposite. They hid it. They didn't tell the world, and millions suffered. What if we had listened to Taiwan? If anything, that is what earned their right for us to see them as a partner and a friend.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm being told we're out of time, but I want to quickly ask you. You have talked about the isolationism in the party and it troubles you. This past week, Justice Department brought a case against Russia regarding a $10 million disinformation campaign in which it was using, in part, right wing media. Do you think that this isolationist streak is being fueled by the Russian state? The problems you are diagnosing right now, that you are also saying Donald Trump is echoing, in some way.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: Margaret, this is bigger than that. This is the tip of the iceberg. First of all, look at what happened in Hochul's office with the Chinese influence and what was happening there–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –The governor here in New York
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: Look at the murder for hire plot on US soil, which I was named in, by Iran. Look at the Russian disinformation, which didn't start this year. This has been going on for years. Russia, China, Iran and North Korea, to some extent, they have spent years on the cheapest form of warfare is, which is, how do you divide Americans and cause chaos? They have done that. When I was running my presidential campaign, the FBI had a separate hearing with me to let me know that Iran was meddling in our, influencing the election through with our campaign –
MARGARET BRENNAN: – To hurt you or to help you?
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: To hurt me. You know the murder for plot, hire plot named me, that's by Iran. This has been going for a long time, and Americans need to wake up. Don't just look at Russia. Don't just look at China. Don't just look at Iran. The biggest lesson we need to take is when you look at social media, I bet you a larger percentage of those are foreign engagements. And when I was in Taiwan, they would tell you they could look at Facebook any time Taiwan put something out, it was suppressed. Anything China put out, it was played up. Why is that? Our social media companies owe Americans from a national security perspective. How many of these foreign bots are dividing us? every bit of our government, influencers, press and media need to say. How many of these foreign influencers are buying people, and what are we doing to protect us? Nothing. No one's talking about Tiktok. Biden and Trump both said they were against Tiktok. They're both on it now. Kamala is on it now. China loves that America needs to wake up when it comes to foreign actors.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ambassador Haley, thank you for your time today.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY: Thanks so much.
