Transcript: House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan," Jan. 5, 2025
The following is the full transcript of an interview with House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" that aired on Jan. 5, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're joined by Speaker Emerita, Nancy Pelosi. It's so good to see you here in person.
SPEAKER EMERITA NANCY PELOSI: My pleasure to be here. Thank you so much.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, tomorrow morning at the Capitol you and other members of Congress will be there to certify the election win in 2024 of Donald Trump. There's an unprecedented level of security, in part because of what happened four years ago with the violent attack by his supporters to change the outcome of the last election. Why do you think that so many members of the American public decided that was not disqualifying when it came to reelecting him president?
SPEAKER EMERITA PELOSI: Well it- again, thank you for the opportunity to talk about this because the denial that they had about the election, which is what they were acting upon, and the denial they've had since then about what happened on Jan- January 6 is just appalling. They want to revise history. And they just- they just can't. But I'm so glad that they have increased security and I'm hoping that this will be very peaceful because- the public knows it. Now to your question, I think- it isn't, I- I wouldn't say that the American people disregarded this. They just had a different view as to what was in their interest, economically and the rest. So I don't- I don't call this a disregard of January 6. I just call it something that they saw in their interest economically.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Even just last night at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump was screening a documentary about the 2020 election, claiming his win and trying to talk about the legal challenges he had. There seems to be a continued effort to claim that he won in 2020.
SPEAKER EMERITA PELOSI: It's really sad. It really is sad. And I don't know about the film that he had and the rest, but it's- it's almost sick that he would be thinking that in 2020. He's won the election now, that will be clear- that will be clear, and tomorrow he will be clearly- we will be accepting the results of the Electoral College. So he should be triumphant about that. But to be still trying to fight a fight that he- he knows he lost is- is really sad.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, the President-elect has said that in the first nine minutes of his new term, he will pardon many of those who participated in January 6. He said he'll look at it on a case-by-case basis, but in looking back at what happened four years ago, there are recordings, there's video evidence of what happened. This is personal for you, some of these rioters in your office. chanting your name. One of them, one of the defendants: "We were looking for Nancy to shoot her in the friggin brain, but we didn't find her." For you, this is personal. So when you hear about pardons, do you think the non-violent attackers deserve to be pardoned?
SPEAKER EMERITA PELOSI: The non-violent- I think that's a violent attacker, with the intent–
MARGARET BRENNAN: – the violence itself.
SPEAKER EMERITA PELOSI: Yeah–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –The violent language, you think.
SPEAKER EMERITA PELOSI: The violent language- yes, the intention. And of course, the intention to attack the Vice President of the United States. Now it didn't end that day. As you know, he called out to these people to continue their violence, my husband being a victim of all of that, and it still- he still has injuries from that attack. So it just goes on and on. It isn't something that happens and then it's over. No, once you are attacked, you have consequences that continue. So I don't- it's really a strange person who's going to be President of the United States, who thinks that it's okay to pardon people who are engaged in an attack. But let's- you know, let's do this. Let's just say okay to the American people. This is what this is about. Do not be conned by the denial of the election of 2020 and- why would he be saying that? But he- but he is. And then on top of that, the denial of what happened on January 6.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But some of the 1600 defendants here were really only charged with trespassing. And when you look at the profiles, University of Chicago did a study, half of those who broke into the Capitol were white collar workers. They were small business owners. Didn't necessarily have a criminal record. When you look at that profile, you said intention. It- it was the intention itself, you think, that needs to be considered more so than the crime. You know that- that it casts the crime itself of trespassing in a different light for you.
SPEAKER EMERITA PELOSI: Well the President said he would go on a case-by-case basis. So I assume that- that some of those people may not have engaged in the violent activities that some of the others did. Look at this beautiful Capitol, the dome built by Lincoln. Under Lincoln's leadership during the Civil War, they said, don't build the dome. It takes too much steel and person power, manpower, they said, from the war effort. And he said, no, I have to show the resilience of America. And then under that dome you saw, you saw flags, the flags that, you know, just horrible flags under the dome of Lincoln. And so it was a tragedy, and we cannot be in denial about what it was. If the President is going to go on a case by case basis, I hope he does, and then maybe–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Trespassers, you would be comfortable with pardoning?
SPEAKER EMERITA PELOSI: Well, just depends on how they define what that is. But the- but I know that some of that encouragement and then the follow up that- that so many people were threatened, including me and- and to my home, looking for me and finding my husband, and as I say, who still suffers from head injuries from- on that day. So these things don't just happen and go away when you have a head injury. But anyway to- to- to see the threat to so many people in elective office, now going beyond me, but so many people in elective office, it shouldn't be a threat to your family that you have chosen to do public service.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You wrote in your book about that 2022 attack on your husband, and you said your daughter told you [if] she had known what you were signing up for, she would never have given you her blessing to run for office in the first place. Do you think that this threat of domestic violent extremism is having a chilling effect on new talent and- and anyone running for office?
SPEAKER EMERITA PELOSI: Well, I certainly hope not. But over the years, when I was encouraging people to run for office, especially women, they would say, we could never take the abuse that you take, and that was really just abuse. It wasn't physical, it was criticism and the rest of that, and that we don't want our children subjected to that. And yes, I do think it will have a negative impact on people running for public office. Just- you know, in other words, if you're- if you're a mom, and they go after you as a- as a mom, and your child comes home crying from school because somebody said a negative thing, because they saw it on TV, that the other side said something bad about you, you might not run for office.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you think it will discourage particularly women—
NANCY PELOSI: Particularly women.
MARGARET BRENNAN: —from running?
SPEAKER EMERITA PELOSI: Yeah, I do. I mean, I know that it has. But I hope that it will not, that we will have shine a bright light on this and just say, this is unacceptable. This is unacceptable. See, for women, they always- they always- women are known to be more, shall we say, ethical, than men. And so when they go after women candidates, they go after their ethics. And they'll say this, that and the other thing. And then the child comes home from school crying because somebody said a bad thing about mom on TV. And nobody- nobody wants that. So hopefully the bright light shining on that will reduce- reduce that. But I think that women have proven that they are- are more ethical, and that they- they are, well, maybe they're not more ethical, they're all ethical, but that they can- then withstand that criticism.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you- during the first Trump presidency, as speaker, you took very public stance to challenge Donald Trump when he was president. Democrats now are in the minority in this new congress. Tom Suozzi from New York recently said, it would be a mistake for Democrats to reflexively oppose Trump's ideas and brand themselves a "national resistance movement." This is a Democrat who won in a Trump district, and he's warning fellow Democrats. Do you agree resistance is a bad strategy this time?
SPEAKER EMERITA PELOSI: Well I- let me just say, historically, when I became speaker, it was when I ran with a Republican president, George Bush, and we opposed his policies. He wanted to privatize Social Security. And so we went against that, and we won. And then when I won again as speaker, George- Donald Trump was president, and we ran against him by saying, we're going to save the Affordable Care Act. This is- this is it. We were saving Social Security in the beginning. Now we're saving the Affordable Care Act. So we won the majority, yes, by disagreeing on certain points. That doesn't mean you disagree on every issue, no. But it does mean that you protect the values that bring you to Congress, the vision that you have about health care, the values that you have about health care, again, because health care is an issue that is so important because health care cost are so high that- that it affects whether you can have housing, whether you can have food on the table, and the rest. And so—
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you would encourage Democrats to work with Donald Trump on an issue like health care?
SPEAKER EMERITA PELOSI: I don't know that he wants to be on health care.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are there opportunities to work with him on anything?
SPEAKER EMERITA PELOSI: No- on other issues. No. On health care, no. But no, just be- well, we both- with George Bush on many issues, and- several issues, let me say, and no, I don't- I don't say that we should work with him on health care. I'm saying we are out there to protect the Affordable Care Act. He said, Obamacare sucks. Now that's not something we want to work with, that Obamacare sucks. So we want to be out there to save the Affordable Care Act, and recognize that reducing the cost of health care can enable people to have housing, have food on the table and the rest. And that's- there are studies that show the relationship between ability to have housing and food when you have good, affordable care, health care.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Speaker Emerita, thank you for your time today.
SPEAKER EMERITA PELOSI: Thank you. My pleasure to be with you. Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we'll be right back with a lot more "Face the Nation." Stay with us.
