Transcript: Ambassador Kurt Volker on "Face the Nation," March 6, 2022
The following is a transcript of an interview with Kurt Volker, the former ambassador to NATO and special representative for Ukraine, that aired Sunday, March 6, 2022, on "Face the Nation."
MARGARET BRENNAN: We're joined now by Kurt Volker. He was a former US envoy to Ukraine and former US ambassador to NATO, and he joins us now. Thank you for coming on the program. You've been arguing for a no-fly zone over Ukraine. NATO says that's off the table. The United States, no way, no how, no combat troops because President Biden says this would trigger World War III. Why is he wrong?
FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO KURT VOLKER: Well, I think there are ways to do this that mitigate those risks, if not- doesn't eliminate the risk, but mitigates the risk of direct conflict with Russia. First off, I think we have to recognize that the civilian casualties and the horrific scenes that we just saw are going to get worse. They're not going to get better. There's going to be massive airstrikes against Kyiv, against other cities, and it's going to be absolutely devastating. So if we can prevent that from a humanitarian point of view, I think we- we need to try. And the way to do this that I would recommend is we make clear the humanitarian purposes. We limit the scope geographically to Kyiv and western Ukraine, so we're not getting close to Russian borders. We make clear that we will only fire if fired upon on any ground targets. We are not there to strike anything. We make clear to the Russian military that we will not strike their aircraft or their helicopters as long as they stay outside the zone. And then there are rules of engagement that our Air Force and others are very good at, of escorting people out of a zone without fire if they're not fired upon. And I think we apply all of those things in order to try to create a safe space for the civilians.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So other former ambassadors to NATO have made the public argument that this is unrealistic because you would have to take out Russian systems not only in Ukraine, but long range ones inside Russia. You go to war like this.
AMB. VOLKER: You don't do that because that does bring us directly into the fight. Russia does not want us in the fight, and I think we are letting Putin get inside our heads and deter us from doing things to protect civilians, rather than taking into account that he does not want the US or other countries supporting Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So if the goal ultimately, diplomatically, is to stop the carnage and stop the war, how do you get Vladimir Putin to back down? Who can actually do that? Because the Germans tried, the French tried, the Israelis tried. No one's gotten any success. The US is talking to China. Who can do this?
AMB. VOLKER: The Ukrainian people can do this. The Ukrainian people are there. They are determined. They are fighting. We are fortunate that we don't have to be in a position of fighting Putin or trying to stop him. The Ukrainian people are ready to do this, and that's why it's critical that we give them every bit of support and assistance we can.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When you say it will get worse, I mean, the French president has indicated that's basically what Vladimir Putin told him. Tell me what you- what is the scenario the public needs to prepare for. Because NATO's already saying cluster bombs are being used. You hear incredible accusations from the Ukrainian government about what is happening. The United States intelligence says lists of people to send to camps are being drawn up. Is this a scenario where you can see someone sitting down and negotiating a way out?
AMB. VOLKER: Not at all, no. We have to understand that Putin is bent on a military victory. He wants to destroy Ukraine, decapitate the leadership. He doesn't care about how many casualties this causes, what happens to the civilian population. This is a messianic mission that he is on. This is why he has to be stopped. And again, we can do things to assist the Ukrainians. Very happy to hear Secretary Blinken say that we are now greenlighting the aircraft from Poland to Ukraine. We should be providing some of our own A-10 aircraft that we're ready to put into storage. There are trained Ukrainian pilots who use them. We should be looking at more means to get more support in quickly. What the UN High Commissioner just said was they need tranquil areas inside Ukraine. In western Ukraine, there are areas where there is no Russian fighting now. We could try to help create those tranquil areas for delivery of assistance. So much more we could be doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is there the political will for that? You served in the Trump administration. Former Vice President Pence said Friday, "there is no room in the Republican Party for apologists for Putin." It's kind of extraordinary he had to say that.
AMB. VOLKER: Yeah, yeah. We've heard that in our- in our media. We've heard that from some politicians here. But I think- you heard also from Adam Schiff. There is incredible bipartisan unity in the Congress, Senate and the House, and among experts and national security figures here in the country. Everyone sees what Putin is doing. There is- there is no support for this whatsoever. Full support for Ukraine. The only question is how far we go to help Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Was the former president an apologist for Putin? That's what the vice president was saying.
AMB. VOLKER: Well I'm not going to pass a judgment on that. We heard what he said. You know, he said that Putin was acting in a smart, savvy way. I mean, that's not the messaging that you want to send. Messaging you want to send is that he is acting in an irresponsible, inhuman way, killing people in an unjustified war, and we should be on the side of the Ukrainians to help them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you, ambassador, for joining us today. We'll be right back.
