Hopes High For Middle East Peace

The pope's pilgrimage to the Holy Land comes amid hopes for a final deal between Israel and the Palestinians, as well as reports of a possible breakthrough with Syria.

The Washington Post reports Wednesday that Syria and Israel have come close to an agreement in secret negotiations mediated by the U.S.

CBS News Anchor Dan Rather spoke with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak on Wednesday.

Barak praised the Pope for his diplomacy, saying he has helped improve the atmosphere and the mood for peace.

Barak: Thank you.

Rather: From your viewpoint, what is the importance of the Pope's visit here, to the Holy Land?

Barak: Oh, it carries a major message of a kind of reconciliation between Judaism and Christianity. His [call] for forgiveness is a major important event for all of us. I believe that he promotes an ambiance of tolerance among people and maybe even, somehow, indirectly, contributing to [a] better atmosphere for the peace process.

Rather: And when the Pope speaks of the need for a Palestinian state, does that make you nervous?

Barak: No, I don't think so. Basically, it's a pilgrimage. He's a spiritual leader, he's not a political mediator, and he's a great man, somehow. You know, he came here, he witnessed the Holocaust. He's coming here to the newly established sovereign state of Israel to bring this message of forgiveness. You know, about 1,000 years after the first crusade and 500 years after the Inquisition, 55 years after the crematoria put down the furnaces, it's about time for us to look different on the future, and he is carrying the right message, I believe - not a political one, but spiritual.

Rather: Let's talk about the prospects for peace in the Middle East. Is there any news today that I should know about?

Barak: I don't know. Maybe we'll have to wait and see. We are determined to try whatever we can to make the whole region more secure, and I believe we have a common interest in having a stable Middle East, and it could be achieved only through peace agreements between us and our neighbors.

Rather: And how important is this meeting between President Clinton with President Assad on Sunday?

Barak: In [a] few days, we will know, I believe, that the president tries to see whether the resumption of negotiations is possible. We have never closed the door. We are ready to negotiate. We have our needs, they have their needs and I believe that, basically, peace in the Middle East is an interest of all the peoples. It will enable the free world to see more limited opportunities for nuclear proliferation, more limited opportunities for Muslim fundamentalism and a better deployment against terror and a better future for pragmatic dreams.

Rather: Let me speak aout your priority. What is your priority - a deal with Arafat or a deal with Syria?

Barak: We have decided to go simultaneously on all tracks in order to strengthen Israel, to secure its future for peace agreements with our neighbors. We are not living in North America or Western Europe. This is a very tough neighborhood. It happened, not just to us twice or three times since the establishment of Israel, but even to Kuwait at the beginning of this decade. So we have to be aware of the fact that we have to be strong for generations to come. But, at the same time, I believe that we're better deployed for cooperation, for gradual emergence of mutual respect and normalcy in this region through peace agreements with our neighbors. And this is what we are trying to achieve together with the United States and the leaders of the free world.

Rather: I take your point that you want to do both deals, you think you can do both deals?

Barak: I will try, I cannot impose. It takes two to tango. I cannot impose peace on Syria. I cannot impose a reasonable agreement on Arafat, but we are ready to take sometimes even a calculated risk in order to give peace a chance and to stabilize, to forge a different nature of relationship in order to secure a better future for the children of this region. We are strong enough, we are self-confident, we know that we can afford peace with our neighbors. We hope that they also will realize the opportunity with the present kind of atmosphere in the world, with the opportunity that has been opened by the demise of the Soviet Union, and with all the goodwill of world international leaders and institutions, and with the really credible leaders of both Syria and the Palestinians, the leaders who founded their movement, who shaped their peoples. They are the people who can make the tough decisions, and there will be a need for tough decisions along the way to peace.

Rather: If you are forced to choose, would you rather have a deal with Arafat and no deal with Syria or vice-versa, a deal with Syria and no deal with Arafat?

Barak: I prefer a deal with all of them, with Syria, with Lebanon, with Arafat, and I believe it's possible if we are determined enough and if we are ready. But we cannot impose. You know, I'm not going to make peace at any price until a certain date. The only deadline that they set is about redeployment from Lebanon, since I believe that we will know much before July 2000, which is the deadline for redeployment from Lebanon, whether we are going to have an agreement with Syria or not.

Rather: Mr. Prime Minister, when Anwar Sadat made his surprising move for peace, he said a lot of the right things -- he appeared before the Knesset -- but I look at Syria and Hafez Assad is not doing that. He's been sending out some pretty critical messages. Is there any chance that you can sell a deal to the Israeli public as long as Syria's governmen is sending out these, one can only describe as, hostile messages?

Barak: There is, of course, a need for a different atmosphere, different mood, for certain signals of good intentions, of peaceful intentions from all sides. It is not enough just to exchange tangibles. It's about time that we'll change the mood if we want, really, to have a peace but, basically, I will do my best to secure Israel through taking care of our interests -- of water, security arrangements, early warning, normalization -- and we have also to see certain developments on the Lebanese arena if peace is to be achieved. I see a major, a golden opportunity, right now. It's up to us, the leaders, to seize it, and it's our responsibility if we fail.

Rather: Will any possible deal with Israel and Syria include U.S. troops in the Golan Heights?

Barak: I don't see any need for U.S. troops and for any troops. We are strong enough to defend ourselves and Syria is strong enough to defend itself. I don't think that there is any need for American troops to serve on the Golan Heights or along the border between Israel and Syria. Maybe there will be a need for [a] few dozen of technicians or some civil servants to operate some early warning assets on behalf of both sides or to monitor certain regimen that has been agreed upon in the agreement, but I don't foresee any need for soldiers to fight. We will fight for ourselves. Don't worry about it, and I hope that we would not be in a need to do it since peace will be kept seriously.

Rather: And the cost to the American taxpayer - the figure $17 billion has been talked about as a wish list. Is that about right? Is that about what you figure?

Barak: I don't think that I'm in a position to quote figures or numbers before there is even a resumption of negotiation or a deal but, somehow, I believe that a peaceful, stable Middle East is serving the whole free world. It is really a major kind of stick against nuclear proliferation, against fundamentalism of Islamic sources, against a new wave of terrorism of the Bin Laden or other state-sponsored terrorism, and it can even help the free flow of oil from the Middle East, which will help to keep the prices of oil and the stable growth of the economies of the global markets, so it's very important and I think that, somehow, there is a certain burden of being the leader of the world. We will try our best not to make it too heavy [a] burden.

Rather: But you think it would be worth the price, whatever the price?

Barak: I'm fully confident that the most costly peace is much, much cheaper than the cheapest war. Just think of Desert Storm or the operation in Kosovo and compare it. It's always cheaper and more cost-effective to subsidize, to help peace to happen rather than to, later on, have to invest both money and, sometimes, death toll in war.

Rather: Mr. Prime Minister, we talk of a eal with Yasir Arafat as possible, a possible deal with Syria, but anybody who knows the region knows that Jerusalem is the core and most difficult problem. Or do you still see it as the major challenge?

Barak: We have a clear position, a united Jerusalem under our sovereignty, the capital of Israel forever, period. I don't think that it will help, somehow, the peace process to discuss it right now with you on the TV, long before the real negotiation comes, but this is our position, and I believe that in any kind of agreement, Israel, united, sovereign, will remain our capital forever.

Rather: Do you consider it an insoluble problem? Not soluble?

Barak: I don't want to go into it. Chairman Arafat tends to always say that if there is a will, there is a way, so I believe that since there is a will to solve the problem, a way will be found.

Rather: If I may, one more question. Everybody knows that you're not only an experienced soldier, but you're an experienced combat soldier. Realistically, is there a chance that we can avoid future wars in this region or is it inevitable that we're going to have war here?

Barak: The reason why we are trying so hard to achieve peace is the fact that we are trying to save our children the need to fight, but we are realistic enough to know that we will have to be strong, militarily and otherwise, for [a] very long time before the political climate in the Middle East will become something like North America or Western Europe, and all along this way, we are determined to stay strong but, at the same time, to do whatever we can to achieve [a] peace agreement with our neighbors that will not violate our security interest and try to live with them [in] mutual respect and good neighborliness.

Rather: Mr. Prime Minister, thank you.

Barak: Thank you very much.

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