Freed Putin critic Vladimir Kara-Murza says Russia deserves better than "criminal, archaic KGB-led dictatorship"
You were never meant to hear the voice of Vladimir Kara-Murza ever again. The Russian opposition leader had warned for years that Vladimir Putin would threaten the peace of the world, and at the U.N. General Assembly in New York this past week, leaders were debating how to stop Putin in Ukraine without a world war. Putin poisoned Kara-Murza twice, then sent him to die in prison. But last month, he was traded for a prize that Putin could not resist. Why does the Russian dictator still fear Vladimir Kara-Murza? Here's why.
Vladimir Kara-Murza: I think Russia deserves so much better than to live under a corrupt, repressive criminal, archaic KGB-led dictatorship. But change is not gonna happen unless we do something to make it happen.
Scott Pelley: And this is worth your life?
Vladimir Kara-Murza: I mean, look, there were people who stood up to Apartheid in South Africa. There were people who stood up to the Communist regime in the Soviet Union. There were people who stood up to the Nazi regime in Germany. There are causes larger than ourselves. And to me, the cause of a free, peaceful, civilized, and democratic Russia is certainly much larger than I could ever be.
He has fought for that cause from the start of Putin's 25-years in power. He's a Pulitzer prize-winning columnist for the Washington Post and Cambridge educated historian. Last year, 43-year-old Kara-Murza was tried for treason after denouncing Putin's war on Ukraine.
Vladimir Kara-Murza: We tried to warn the world. We tried to shout. We tried to get the message out that this regime is dangerous, that this man is dangerous, that even if you don't care about what happens to us in Russia it's gonna come to you sooner or later.
Scott Pelley: What is it like living in Russia today?
Vladimir Kara-Murza: Anybody who's a genuine opponent of Putin is either in exile in prison or dead. You have to think about even what you talk to your kids about at home because children whose families are against this war in Ukraine would, for example, draw anti-war images in school and their parents would get visits from the police or they would be put in prison. You have to think about that as well if you live in Russia today.
Vladimir Kara-Murza has been high on Putin's list since 2012 when he and the late Sen. John McCain fought for the so-called Magnitsky Act. The U.S. law is named for a man murdered by Putin's police. The Magnitsky Act seized the overseas assets of more than 60 people who abused human rights in Russia. Kara-Murza says this is why he was poisoned by Kremlin assassins.
Vladimir Kara-Murza: I was in was in a coma for about a month the first time this happened in May of 2015 with a multiple organ failure. And as the doctors in Moscow were telling my wife, with about a 5% chance to survive. And after I came out of that coma, despite all the odds, I've literally had to learn everything new.
Scott Pelley: You had to learn to walk again.
Vladimir Kara-Murza: Yeah--
Scott Pelley: You had to learn to eat again.
Vladimir Kara-Murza: It's amazing how fast the human body just loses everything, just loses all the strength and you just have to start anew.
Two years later, he was poisoned again. This time, 2017, he rehabbed in the U.S. His wife and three children live in the states and Kara-Murza has permanent resident status. But once he recovered, he returned to Russia.
Scott Pelley: You were safe.
Vladimir Kara-Murza: How could I not go back to Russia? I am a Russian politician. A politician has to be in their own country. How could I call on my fellow citizens and my fellow Russians to stand up and oppose this dictatorship if I myself was too scared to do it? How is that possible?
Last year, after his treason conviction, he was hit with the longest sentence ever for a political prisoner. The judge in the case had been among the first officials ever sanctioned by the Magnitsky Act.
Scott Pelley: And when you heard the sentence, 25 years, you thought what?
Vladimir Kara-Murza: So, frankly I thought it's a job well done.
Scott Pelley: A job well done?
Vladimir Kara-Murza: Well, on my part, yes. I think that 25 year sentence was frankly, a recognition that what we did over all those years mattered, that the Magnitsky Act mattered, that public opposition to the war in Ukraine mattered.
He was sent to Siberia and solitary confinement.
Vladimir Kara-Murza: In the two and a half years I've spent in Russian prison, I was only able to once call my wife on the phone, and only twice I was able to speak on the phone to our three kids. It was a 15-minute call, so five minutes per child. And as my wife later told me, she was standing there with a stopwatch to make sure that each of our kids doesn't get more than five minutes so that everybody could have an opportunity to speak with Dad.
Scott Pelley: Were you sitting in that cell thinking, "I'm gonna get outta here one day"?
Vladimir Kara-Murza: No, to answer your question honestly, I did not believe I would ever get out. And so, what happened-- on August 1st, the only way I can describe that is a miracle.
The miracle was in the making for more than a year. Negotiations began over Americans held by Putin, which, eventually, included Evan Gershkovich, a reporter for the Wall Street Journal. But over the months, the deal grew to involve seven countries.
Jake Sullivan: We don't trust the Russians on anything. They lied about the war in Ukraine. They make a regular practice of lying and obfuscating. But one thing they have shown over time is when they say they're gonna do an exchange, they do the exchange.
At the center of the negotiations was Jake Sullivan, President Biden's national security advisor.
Jake Sullivan: None of this happens overnight. None of it's straightforward. There's gonna be twists and turns. There's gonna be false starts. And so, persistence, relentlessness, that's part of the name of the game of actually securing the release of these Americans.
But there was only one thing Putin wanted and that would be hard, maybe impossible, for the man who held the key, the leader of Germany.
Jake Sullivan: Olaf Scholz was absolutely critical. Without him, this would not have happened. Because a central piece of the puzzle was the release of a Russian agent named Vadim Krasikov. Without Krasikov, there is no deal.
But Krasikov is a notorious assassin and friend of Putin. In 2019, he was sent to Germany to kill an enemy of the Kremlin. The daytime murder, in the middle of Berlin, was infamous.
Scott Pelley: What was Scholz's dilemma?
Jake Sullivan: Being able to look his people in the eye and say, "We are releasing someone who has committed a grievous crime on German soil. And therefore, I can deliver something for the people of Germany." And that's why we ended up thinking through enlarging the problem, not just trying to bring out Americans, but of course bring out some German citizens as well. And then, the critical move of being able to say to the German people, the American people, and the world, "We are also getting Russian Freedom Fighters out," including people like Vladimir Kara-Murza.
That was the fire-side pitch to the German leader, but Krasikov had served only three years of a life sentence. Scholz's fractious coalition government faced election challenges. And the easy answer was "no."
Scott Pelley: In the end, you had to do a deal with the devil.
Olaf Scholz: I made a deal with the Russian president.
In Berlin, Chancellor Scholz told us he was brought to "yes" by a man he considered a friend.
Olaf Scholz: It is not an easy decision. And I discussed with many people in my government, and especially with Joe Biden, who asked me to help. And my view was that this is something which we could do. Well-prepared and if we do it on a large scale.
Jake Sullivan: He said, and I remember it very vividly, on the phone with President Biden, "For you, Joe, I will do this."
Vladimir Kara-Murza: A large group of officers burst into my cell. I have no idea what's happening. It's the middle of the night. It's dark. And they tell me I have ten minutes to get up and get ready. And at this moment, I'm absolutely certain that I'm gonna be led out and be executed.
But instead of executed, on August 1st, eight Russian criminals and spies were traded for several Germans, the three Americans, and eight Russian dissidents. As he stepped off the plane in Turkey, Kara-Murza's captors had parting advice.
Vladimir Kara-Murza: He turned to me and said, "Be careful about what you eat. You know how these things happen."
Scott Pelley: He was telling you, you might be poisoned again, even though you're free?
Vladimir Kara-Murza: Well, look, we know that attacks on opponents of the Kremlin have happened far beyond the borders of Russia.
The next voice Kara-Murza heard spoke not of fear but of freedom.
Vladimir Kara-Murza: At that moment a lady diplomat came up to me with a cell phone and she says, "Are you Mr. Kara-Murza?" I said, "Yes." And she gives me the phone and says, "I'm from the American embassy in Ankara. The president of the United States is on the line."
President Biden (on call): You've been wrongfully detained for a long time and we're glad you're home.
With President Biden, was Kara-Murza's family.
Vladimir Kara-Murza (on call): You've done a wonderful thing by saving so many people. I think there are 16 of us on the plane. I don't think there are many things more important than saving human lives.
Vladimir Kara-Murza: It felt surreal, it felt more emotional than I had ever felt at any point in my life.
There had been many emotions for Jake Sullivan who, for years, could tell desperate families only to keep waiting.
Jake Sullivan (in briefing room): And most of the time, as you can imagine, those are tough conversations. But not today. Today, excuse me, today was a very good day.
Vladimir Kara-Murza: It's one thing to speak about protecting freedom or protecting human rights. But it's quite another thing to actually do something to protect them. And whatever else President Biden and Chancellor Scholz will be remembered for years from now, they will be remembered for this.
Scott Pelley: Vladimir Kara-Murza told us he quoted a Jewish scripture to you: "He who saves one life saves the entire world."
Olaf Scholz: It was very nice to hear it, to be very honest with you. On the other hand, I don't feel that great. I did what I thought is the right thing to do.
Scott Pelley: We have traveled quite a bit through Ukraine. We have seen the destroyed hospitals. We have seen the shattered schools. We have seen the mass graves. Vladimir Putin has attacked a country that meant him no harm, and I wonder if you can explain why.
Vladimir Kara-Murza: Because that is what dictators do. Once they consolidate, they control domestically. Once they eliminate and destroy all the opposition at home, they start moving against others. This has always happened in Russia. whether under the czars, under the Soviets, or now under Vladimir Putin.
Scott Pelley: Will Putin try to kill you again?
Vladimir Kara-Murza: Look, we know what it entails to be in opposition to Vladimir Putin. He's not just a dictator. He's not just an authoritarian leader. He's not just a strongman. He is a murderer. That man is a murderer.
Vladimir Kara-Murza remains in the U.S. with his family. He told us, in solitary confinement, he learned there's no life without hope-- true for those behind bars and for his imprisoned country.
Vladimir Kara-Murza: The amazing fact and the fact that frankly makes me proud of Russia is that there are thousands of people in Russia who have publicly spoken out against Putin's regime, who have publicly spoken out against the war in Ukraine even at the cost of personal freedom. And I hope that when people in the West, that when people in the United States, when people in the free world at large think about Russia they will remember not only the aggressors and the war criminals who are sitting in the Kremlin but also those who are standing up to them because we are Russians too.
Produced by Maria Gavrilovic and Alex Ortiz. Broadcast associate, Michelle Karim. Edited by April Wilson.
