"Face the Nation" transcripts, July 29, 2012: Mitt Romney, Rep. Wasserman Schultz, Rodney Erickson

(CBS News) Below is a rush transcript of "Face the Nation" on July 29, 2012, hosted by CBS News Bob Schieffer. Guests include: Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Penn State President Rodney Erickson, and former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Today on FACE THE NATION, did Romney give Israel the green light to bomb Iran?

MITT ROMNEY: I look forward to chatting with you about further actions that we can take to dissuade Iran from their nuclear folly.

BOB SCHIEFFER: As Romney was talking tough about Iran in Jerusalem this morning, back home Newsweek was accusing him of being a wimp, in an issue that includes a surprising assessment of his foreign policy credentials from his fellow Republican John McCain. Our Jan Crawford is with Romney and will ask him about all of it. Democratic Party Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz will offer her party's side.

We'll also talk about the scandal at Penn State and the harsh sanctions imposed by the NCAA. I'll talk about that with Penn State's President Rodney Erickson who's catching it from both sides.

RODNEY ERICKSON: I was faced with a very, very difficult choice.

BOB SCHIEFFER: We'll explore what the scandal means for college sports across the country with Sara Ganim, a CNN contributor and Patriot-News reporter, who won the Pulitzer for breaking the story; Bill Rhoden of the New York Times; Buzz Bissinger who wrote Friday Night Lights; and our own James Brown and Jim Rome of CBS Sports.

We'll close with a rare interview with former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, long retired from the court, but still making a difference.

This is FACE THE NATION.

ANNOUNCER: From CBS News in Washington, FACE THE NATION with Bob Schieffer.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And good morning, again.

Well, after a visit to London that got him a lot of unwanted publicity in the British tabloids, Mitt Romney is in Jerusalem this morning, conferring with top Israeli officials and reaffirming the bond between United States and Israel. But when a top Romney foreign policy adviser Dan Senor told reporters there this morning, "If Israel has to take action on its own to prevent Iran from being able to make the materials that could be used in a bomb, we would respect that decision." Well, that has set off new questions. Has Romney given Israel the go-ahead to bomb Iran? Our Jan Crawford just talked to Governor Romney this morning. Here's her interview.

JAN CRAWFORD: Well, Governor, one of your aides said this morning that you would respect Israel's decision to take military action against Iran on its own. Does that mean you're giving the green light to Israel to bomb Iran?

MITT ROMNEY: Let me-- I'll use my own words, and-- and that is I respect the right of Israel to defend itself, and-- and we stand with-- with Israel. We're a-- a nation-- two nations that come together in-- in peace and that want to see Iran being dissuaded from its nuclear folly, so let me use my own words in that regard.

JAN CRAWFORD: But what does that mean to you, then, that you respect their decision? I mean can you explain that a little more?

MITT ROMNEY: Well, I think-- because I'm on foreign soil, I don't want to be creating new foreign policy for-- for my country or in any way to distance myself in the foreign policy of-- of our nation, but we respect the right of a nation to defend itself.

JAN CRAWFORD: But would you or would you not then support Israel's bombing of Iran?

MITT ROMNEY: Well, again, that would be a-- a statement which would be a-- of a different nature than what our nation has already expressed with regards to Iran. What we have said and-- and-- and with which I concur is that we should use every diplomatic and political vehicle that's available to us to keep Iran from becoming a nuclear capability state. Those actions should be executed with-- with the-- the greatest speed that we can-- that we can muster. If all those options fail and they've not all been executed, they've not all failed entirely at this stage, if all those option fail-- options fail, then we do have other options and we don't take those other options off the table. But that's as far as I'm-- I'm willing to go in-- in terms of discussing this matter while on foreign soil.

JAN CRAWFORD: Well, do you think the time for those diplomatic solutions is-- is running out or drawing to a close?

MITT ROMNEY: Well, there's no question, but when I spoke-- spoke at the Herzliya Conference five years ago and laid out the seven steps that I thought were necessary to dissuade Iran from their nuclear folly, that-- since that time not all of those steps have been put in place. And-- and we're five years closer. We're five years closer to a nuclear Iran. They have not--

JAN CRAWFORD (overlapping): Why is that?

MITT ROMNEY: --they have not-- they have not slowed their-- their process, all indications are they continue to-- to amass enriched material that ultimately would allow them to-- to have a-- a nuclear bomb, that is-- that is something which is dangerous to the world. It's a national security threat to America. And it-- it threatens the very existence of Israel.

JAN CRAWFORD: So you think that-- I mean, it's-- so, Iran is a much more dangerous threat now than it was four or five years ago? Why is that?

MITT ROMNEY: Well, Iran has-- has put in more centrifuges. It has now been able to enrich more uranium. It has more, therefore, capacity to build at-- at some point a-- a nuclear weapon. It's not there at this stage. They have further enrichment required, but they've had five years of enriching, and five years of construction--

JAN CRAWFORD (overlapping): And is that a--

MITT ROMNEY: --and five-- and five years with which to work on if they-- if they choose and if they have chosen, either missile capacity or bomb-making capacity, in addition to the enriched material. So, they're five years closer than they were when I spoke at Herzliya five years ago.

JAN CRAWFORD: And do you think that reflects a failure of the world's leaders who address some of these problems?

MITT ROMNEY: I-- I-- I would have hoped that the-- the posture I described in Herzliya five years ago would have been more fully implemented over the-- the previous five years and-- and think that-- had that been the case, we would-- we would not be as-- as close to nuclearization as we are today.

JAN CRAWFORD: Let me ask you some-- some things about what you have said in the past. Back in December, you said, before you were making any statements about policy as regards to Israel that you would call up your friend, the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Is that the position that you would take on, say, Israel's policy in regards to Iran now?

MITT ROMNEY: Well, we always speak-- we-- we always speak with our friends around the world. I'm-- I'm sure our current President, likewise, would-- would certainly want to communicate and-- and have a discussion with-- with our friends and allies around the world, and-- and particularly those that are in the region which would be most affected by-- by steps that-- that we might take. But-- but Israel and America and many other nations are allies, and even some that are geopolitical adversaries concur with us that-- that Iran must not become a nuclear nation.

JAN CRAWFORD: I'm trying to understand how your policies would be different from the current policies in the White House and it seems that perhaps you would be willing to listen more to the prime minister. As you said you would pick up the phone and call him first. Is it a difference in tone?

MITT ROMNEY: Well, the challenge is, you know, we have a long-standing tradition in this country to follow the advice of Senator Vandenberg, which is that politics ends at the water's edge. And so while I'm on foreign soil, I-- I just don't feel that I should be speaking about differences with regards to myself and President Obama on foreign policy, either foreign policy of the past, or for-- foreign policy prescriptions. Are there differences between us? Of course. But-- but being on foreign soil, particularly being here in Israel, this isn't the right time for me to-- to tell-- to draft those out. But, again, I've spoken in the past at the Herzliya Conference. I've described my own views, and I think those continue to be the-- the views that people could consider.

JAN CRAWFORD: Some of those views have sounded pretty hawkish, the way you've been talking in terms of-- of Israel and your approach in the Middle East. But I wanted so I just got a copy of the Newsweek cover that's going to be hitting the newsstands tomorrow that calls you a wimp. Have you seen this?

MITT ROMNEY: No. They tried--

JAN CRAWFORD: Does that concern you? Is that fair?

MITT ROMNEY: They tried that in George Herbert Walker Bush. He was a pretty-- pretty great President and anything but.

JAN CRAWFORD: But it-- it did hurt him to some extent, that-- that narrative did. Are you worried about what the media is saying here in this-- this kind of storyline that gets out there, and how do you counter that?

MITT ROMNEY: If I-- if I worried about what the media said I-- I wouldn't get much sleep and I'm able to sleep pretty well.

JAN CRAWFORD: Has anyone ever called you a wimp before?

MITT ROMNEY: I don't recall that. No.

JAN CRAWFORD: No. Well, that-- also in that same issue, there is an interview with Senator McCain and he says of you, "He has not got a lot of instincts on some of these national security issues, but he has the right instincts." Does that sound like faint praise to you?

MITT ROMNEY: You'd have to ask him. I-- I-- I respect Senator McCain a great deal and believe he has many-- many good ideas and suggestions that I would certainly want to avail myself of if I were in a setting that-- that required the input of other leaders. Senator McCain would be one of those that I'd want to hear from.

JAN CRAWFORD: But, you know, you've kind of grounded your campaign on your economic experience and ability to turn things around with the economy and in the private sector. Would you say that foreign policy is the area where you're weakest?

MITT ROMNEY: I would say that foreign policy is a place where intelligence, resolve, clarity, and confidence in cause, is of extraordinary importance. Ronald Reagan was one of our great foreign policy Presidents. He did not come from the Senate. He did not come from the foreign policy world. He was a governor, but his resolve, his clarity of purpose, his intelligence, his capacity to deal with complex issues and solve tough problems served him extremely well, and if I were elected President, I hope I could rely upon those same qualities.

JAN CRAWFORD: So it sounds like you're saying sometimes when a President steps into office he's dealing with a host of issues on the world stage and-- and perhaps it comes down to character because you can't anticipate what you're going to be dealing with. How would you describe the characteristics that you would bring as President to dealing with foreign policy?

MITT ROMNEY: I believe that as people will look at me, they'll see a person who has dealt with a number of very difficult and challenging circumstances and that I have been able to successfully navigate through those and create greater strength and greater opportunity. I believe that people recognize that I'm someone who has confidence in America's cause. That I am clear-- clear in the purpose that America represents. And that I would exercise might, if it were necessary, with resolve and I believe that that's the kind of posture which Ronald Reagan represented. I hope I would as well. I can tell you that Ronald Reagan was able to accomplish extraordinary purposes for our country without having to-- to put our military forces into-- into conflict. Only in one circumstance, which was in Grenada, did our forces go in a conflict setting. We were in a peacekeeping setting in Lebanon. Having strength, having a strong military, is-- is the ally of peace. Exercising that strength through-- through military action is not always necessary if you have the confidence and clarity of vision and purpose which America demands.

JAN CRAWFORD: Are you troubled by some of the growing isolationists' sentiments that we're seeing in the Republican Party.

MITT ROMNEY: I don't know that-- that I see more in our party than I do across the country. There are-- there are some who would prefer to see America play a less prominent role in the world. I believe the world benefits from American leadership. I believe this next century should be an American century. I believe as well that-- that American strength is-- is essential economic strength, family and value strength, military strength is essential for our own good that these things not only help secure peace for other people but preserve peace for us and-- and promise greater prosperity for America.

JAN CRAWFORD: So what would the Romney doctrine be then when you're trying to decide whether to intervene abroad?

MITT ROMNEY: Well, my doctrine is as I've described, which is confidence in our cause, clarity in our purpose, and resolve in our might.

JAN CRAWFORD: And then last question, do you think America is less secure today than it was in the Cold War or after 9/11?

MITT ROMNEY: Well, there are certain places where we are more safe. There are other places where we are less secure. Certainly Iran is five years closer to a nuclear weapon, than it was when I spoke here at Herzliya five years ago. And Iran's nuclearization is the greatest single national security threat America faces. That's of great concern to me. I hope it is to the people of our nation and to people around the world. A nuclear Iran is a-- a dramatic and-- and devastating potential threat to the world and to America. And-- and all our efforts should be focused on making that our first priority or keeping them from having that nuclear capacity our first priority.

JAN CRAWFORD: All right. Governor, thank you very much.

MITT ROMNEY: Thanks, Jan.

JAN CRAWFORD: Really appreciate your time.

MITT ROMNEY: Thank you.

JAN CRAWFORD: Thank you.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Now to get the other side of the story on Mitt Romney's visit to Israel, the Democratic Party Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, congresswoman from Florida. Congresswoman, it appears that while he did not disagree with what his adviser Dan Senor said about "We would respect Israel's right to attack Iran," he did seem to be kind of walking back from that without really walking back from it.

RPRESENTATIVE DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (Democratic National Committee Chair/D-Florida): Well, I-- I think that's emblematic of-- and revealing of how Mitt Romney's entire trip overseas has gone so far. I think he's demonstrated pretty repeatedly since he's been out of the country that he lacks the experience, he lacks the preparation, and-- and the diplomatic skills to be able to be the commander in chief, to be able to be the President of the United States. Starting out in England, in Great Britain, where he insults on the eve of a significant event for our-- one of our strongest allies, makes a huge intelligence gaffe by revealing the-- the existence and saying out loud the existence of their-- their biggest intelligence agency appearing not to know the name of the opposition leader. And now in Israel, suggesting from his campaign staff that-- that we would just go to war and-- and back and you know, back a decision to go to war. And now appearing to roll back that back. Bottom line is President Obama has said that it is a top priority of the United States of America to ensure that Iran never achieves a nuclear-- its nuclear ambition, and that all options are on the table. And, in fact, that includes all options, a-- a military option being one of those. Contingency plans exist for those military-- those military options, and, you know, if Mitt Romney believes that it's time to go to war to-- to-- to address Iran's quest to achieve the nuclear ambition, then he should say it. In fact, if Mitt Romney has any foreign policy positions at all, which he has seemed to not indicate he has, then he should say them. You know, that's the very least that the American voters can expect is that when you're running for President that you outline what you would do and what you would do differently from this--from the President of the United States.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You know I'm going to ask you about-- about this new edition of Newsweek. They have on the cover Mitt Romney is-- is "The wimp factor." Now this is reminiscent of sort of an infamous Newsweek cover back when the first George Bush was running for-- running and it said-- they put out a cover that said, "Fighting the wimp factor." Is Mitt Romney a wimp?

REPRESENTATIVE DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Well, I think Mitt Romney has demonstrated repeatedly he has a penchant for-- for secrecy, doesn't seem to have any interest in actually showing the American people his-- his finances, decision-- important decisions about his investments, refuses to come clean on his time at Bain Capital and when he was really there, and, you know, be held accountable for the outsourcing of jobs and the off-shoring of jobs and shipping jobs overseas. When he was governor of Massachusetts, was willing to put a call center in India, of all pa-- places, rather than the United States, you know, has repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to be all over the map. You know the most recent example is-- is-- is not being at all clear about where he is when it comes to our-- our policy as it-- as it relates to making sure that Iran never achieves its nuclear ambitions. So I-- I think he has left quite a bit of doubt about his level of preparation and readiness to the President.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Now I can't let you off the hook without asking you about some pretty dismal economic figures that came out Friday, our economy is really just limping along. It is President Obama's policy. He's been there for a long time now. So with the election just a hundred days away now, Congresswoman, is the President running out of time here in terms of turning this economy around?

REPRESENTATIVE DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Well, we have made progress from where we were when President Obama took office, when the economy--our economy had just contracted almost by nine percent. Now we've begun to turn things around and had our twelfth straight quarter of growth. We have a long way to go. We need to make sure and that we can continue to move forward in creating jobs and getting the economy turned around. The best way to do that is-- is to make sure that we can get Congress to adopt the American Jobs Act that the President's proposed, which would ensure that we can create a million jobs right now, that we can take the bill that the Senate just passed last week, to extend the middle-class tax breaks. That ball is in Speaker-- Republican Speaker John Boehner's court. If we make sure that we can provide certainty the middle class-- to the middle class, extend those middle-class tax breaks right now, adopt the President's jobs act then we will continue to make the pro-- kind of progress that we need to make.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Congresswoman, always nice to have you.

REPRESENTATIVE DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Thank you.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Thank you.

REPRESENTATIVE DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: For me too, thank you.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Back in a minute.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: On Monday the National Collegiate Athletic Association imposed some of the harshest sanctions ever on Penn State in the wake of the child molestation scandal and the subsequent cover-up. The school was fined sixty million dollars. Its athletic scholarships were reduced. It was banned from playing postseason games for four years. And its players can transfer to other schools without penalty if they choose. Even though some wanted even harsher penalties, some Penn State trustees thought the penalty was too severe. So I sought out school president Rodney Erickson this week who agreed to the sanctions. Here are the highlights of our interview.

Well, there was a great deal of criticism in the community of you, when you accepted on behalf of the university, the sanctions that were imposed by the NCAA. Some people even on the board said that you just rolled over. I guess I would ask you, what do you say to them, and did you have any choice but to accept these sanctions?

RODNEY ERICKSON (Penn State University President): I was faced with a very, very difficult choice. It was made clear to me and to our legal team very early on in the week that we really had a choice which was multiple years of the death penalty or--

BOB SCHIEFFER: In other words, no football at all.

RODNEY ERICKSON: No football. And the prospects of additional sanctions beyond that death penalty or accepting a consent decree that was given down by the NCAA. Given the two alternatives I felt that it was-- it was best to accept the consent decree. This allows us to continue to go on playing football. It allows us to go on helping to support the-- the other intercollegiate athletic teams that we have at the university.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, do you yourself feel that somehow these sanctions were unfair?

RODNEY ERICKSON: There are aspects of the sanctions, certainly, that-- that I think were-- were certainly very heavy. But we were given a-- a choice, and I continue to feel that that was the best choice that we could make under the circumstances. The choice that I-- I made really allows us to-- to move forward.

BOB SCHIEFFER: I'll just go the bottom line-- do you feel secure in your job here?

RODNEY ERICKSON: Oh, yes. I-- I believe I have the-- the strong support of the-- the vast majority of the board.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Now we have the victim of the molestation that the assistant coach saw in the locker room involving Sandusky. His lawyers have come forward and said that he intends to sue the university. I would guess that this is going to be the first of many lawsuits. How is the university going to handle that? I mean do you have insurance? Can you withstand an onslaught of lawsuits?

RODNEY ERICKSON: We have, like any university of our size, both directors and officers, as-- as well as general liability coverage, we believe that-- that we are adequately covered. In addition to that we cer-- we-- we hope to be able to-- to settle as many of these cases as quickly as possible. We-- we don't want to, if at all possible, drag victims through another round of-- of court cases and litigation. If we can come to an agreement with them, with their attorneys, we believe that would be the best possible outcome in this-- this whole very, very difficult, tragic situation.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Now it's my understanding that among the sanctions the NCAA imposed, it's a sixty-million-dollar fine that you will pay out over-- over a number of years. Where does that money come from?

RODNEY ERICKSON: We will pay that out in a combination of-- of funds. We will use the football program's financial reserves that-- that they have available to them. And in all likelihood the-- the university will have to extend the athletic department, a long-term loan that they can pay back as they get on their feet and as we adjust their budget going-- going forward in the football program.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me just ask you the basic question, as you look back on it now, did Penn State put too much emphasis on football?

RODNEY ERICKSON: Our intercollegiate ath-- athletics program has been a-- a tremendous success. To the extent that-- that some parts of intercollegiate athletics perhaps became too separate and became too much areas under-- unto themselves and not sufficiently wrapped into the rest of the university,. That's something that we-- we really are looking at right now and, of course, the-- the Freeh report made a number of recommendations with respect to that issue.

BOB SCHIEFFER: We'll have more of this interview with President Erickson in our next half hour. I'll be right back with some news about FACE THE NATION.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: A little local news, if I may. FACE THE NATION is the second oldest program on television. It began in 1954, fifty-eight years ago. I've been here at the table for the last twenty-one, and last April, we began a new chapter. We expanded from half hour to an hour. It was an experiment, frankly, and this week, the CBS Network notified our affiliate stations that the experiment was successful. From here on FACE THE NATION will be a one-hour broadcast. I just wanted to take a moment to thank our affiliate stations who found a way this year to include the one-hour broadcast on their schedules on very short notice, and most of all, I want to thank those of you who watch our broadcast. Your numbers--I'm happy to say--continue to grow, and we appreciate it. And by the way, we don't intend to change much. No bells, whistles. We'll just turn on the lights, sit the key newsmakers down, ask them the questions we think you would ask and if they don't answer, we'll try to point that out.

Back in a minute.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: Some of our stations are leaving us now. For most of you, we'll be right back with more of that interview with President Erickson and hear what he has to say about Joe Paterno.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION. We're going to start page two with more of our interview with Penn State President Erickson.

Joe Paterno was a legend. He was an icon. Did he stay too long?

RODNEY ERICKSON: I would say that Coach Paterno's legacy, as far as I'm concerned and I think everyone will have to assess that personally how they see the coach's legacy--from my standpoint, I see the coach's contributions to-- to the educational life of the university, and that's one of the reasons that I said I felt strongly that the Paterno name should stay on our library. I think when some years pass and we get more perspective, we will also come to understand that that he had a very important role over sixty years in the education that our educational goals and our aspirations at the university, and-- and nothing will change that part of Coach Paterno's legacy.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, why did you take his statue down?

RODNEY ERICKSON: I thought the statue had become a kind of a symbol, a kind of a lightning rod, if you will, for the controversy that-- that has erupted over the past eight months. And I felt that it was a kind of open wound for the victims of-- of child abuse across the nation, and in that respect I thought it should be-- it should be removed.

BOB SCHIEFFER: What will you do with it?

RODNEY ERICKSON: It's-- it's in a safe place right now.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Could you ever see it coming back, being put back on display somewhere?

RODNEY ERICKSON: We're certainly not prepared to-- to make any decision about that issue at this time. It needs-- it needs perspective. It needs time.

BOB SCHIEFFER: What do you say now to these children who-- who were molested, some of them are older now, but what-- what does the university want to say to them?

RODNEY ERICKSON: Well, we're-- we're deeply sorry and-- and sad, regretful that this happened at-- at our university. We want to do the right thing. We want to help them in their healing process. But we also want to make sure that-- that Penn State becomes a national leader in this whole area of-- of child abuse prevention and treatment. We've already taken a number of very concrete steps to do that. We're committed to being a national leader in this. And to-- to make sure that-- that hopefully some-- some good in the larger perspective of things can-- can emerge from-- from this very tragic situation. And of course the sixty-million-dollar fine will go into an endowment, the proceeds of which will be used to-- to assist in the prevention and treatment of abuse.

BOB SCHIEFFER: As difficult as this was, what is the lesson here? What happened then that can never happen again? And how do you keep that from happening?

RODNEY ERICKSON: I believe there are several lessons here, Bob, that-- that we can learn from this. One, of course, is-- is to be very mindful of our children and the circumstances under which they engage in activities and so forth. Our children are our most important assets. I think another lesson to be learned is-- is one of accountability, the accountability of the moment. We make-- need to make sure that-- that everyone, regardless of their-- their position or standing, is-- is held accountable for-- for actions that they take. We need to make sure that all of the units across the university are really interacting and sharing information.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Why were people afraid to talk about this? Why-- how did this-- how did this happen? That's the part that I find so difficult. I mean, how could people have known about this and not tried to do something about it or just tried to tell somebody about it.

RODNEY ERICKSON: I think that's a very-- very difficult question for-- for all of us to come to grips with. When I read the-- the grand jury presentment last November, I was horrified what I read. And the first question that came to my mind is how could something like this have happened at a place that I thought I knew after thirty-five years quite well? And so I think many of us are still asking that question. Is it-- is it something, again, related to the kind of organizational structure that we have? How much of it is-- is simply due to human-- human frailty? And-- and not willing to step forward when-- when they see something terrible happening and-- and again, it's accountability of-- of the moment. So we need to-- every one of us, even though we don't have clear answers to that, needs to reach into our own hearts and-- and think about that issue very deeply, and going forward, you know, we can't change the past, but we can look to the future, and we can-- we can hold ourselves accountable, to our-- not just to our-- our children but to all aspects of the-- the world we interact with.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Rodney Erickson, the President of Penn State.

And joining me now to talk about this situation and the impact it's had on football in general and the kind of the state of sports in America, Sara Ganim, who is CNN contributor. She won the Pulitzer Prize for her work for the Harrisburg Patriot News on the Sandusky scandal. Sara, you are how old?

SARA GANIM (The Harrisburg Patriot-News/CNN Contributor): Twenty-four.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And you've already got a Pulitzer. All right.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Bill Rhoden is a sports columnist for the New York Times Buzz Bissinger is a contributor for Newsweek and the Daily Beast. He wrote Friday Night Lights, one of the best books about football ever written and our own James Brown who is here at the table with me and out in Los Angeles Jim Rome, both of course of CBS Sports.

Sara, I've got to talk to you. You heard the President. What-- what struck you here? What are the questions we need to be asking now?

SARA GANIM: Well, I think the-- the situation about the money and how they're going to pay, not just for the fine that the NCAA imposed, but the lawsuits that are inevitably going to come, the millions that they're already spending and will continue to spend on crisis management. How will they ensure that this doesn't come from the three key areas--from tuition money, from taxpayer money, and from donations from people who give to Penn State because they went to school there or enjoy the program? And the interesting thing about Penn State is that it's unlike many state schools, it's what we call in Pennsylvania state related. So, it gets state money, but it doesn't have to open up its records. So we cannot-- no one, no members of the public, no journalist can look and see the money trail. And while President Erickson is telling us what pot of money they-- they want to take the sixty million dollars from, we don't know where that money was going before. So, how do we know that-- where that sixty million might have gone to, you know, build a new academic building or a laboratory, how are they paying for it now? How are they paying for the-- the other sports programs, all of them, except basketball, are dependent on Penn State football, so where is that money come-- coming and how do I know that my tax money isn't going to that.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Bill, let me just start with you and just go around the table, short question--did the NCAA impose the right penalty here? Should it have been harsher or was it not harsh enough?

BILL RHODEN (New York Times): Oh, absolutely-- Bob, absolutely not. They should not be playing football. The fact that-- the fact that they are playing football is one of the greatest abdications, moral abdications, maybe in the history of the NCAA. There's no way that they should be playing football.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Jim Rome out there in L.A., what's your take?

JIM ROME (CBS Sports Network): Bob, I think they got it right. I think the NCAA actually had to come down the way they did. We're talking about the worst scandal ever. NCCA couldn't just set that one out. We're talking about a head coach who knew, an athletic director who knew, a vice president and a president knew that they had a pedophile within their buildings. They had to do something. So I think that they got it right. I think it certainly was punitive. I think that it was just and I think that they had no-- no other opportunity or no other choice but to do what they did. I think they got it.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Buzz Bissinger?

BUZZ BISSINGER (Author, Friday Night Lights; Contributor, Newsweek/The Daily Beast): Yeah, I mean, given-- given the past conduct of the NCAA, in which they literally never do anything, I think the sanctions were appropriate and correct. I think it's going to have a severe impact on the Penn State football program. When you lose scholarships like that, when you're restricted, you are not going to bowl games. Kids-- it's a business, and kids and their parents are going to say, don't go to Penn State.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You know, my daughter went to SMU, the year that they-- they got the death penalty, no football, they cancelled all the games the first year, cancelled the visiting games the second year. SMU went ahead and cancelled the home games. I remember going to the homecoming soccer game, and it just wasn't quite the same. SMU didn't do nearly what-- what happened at Penn State? Do you think the penalty was right, James?

JAMES BROWN (CBS News Special Correspondent): I think on balance it was fair. I thought it was punitive enough. There's no such thing as a-- a penalty that will be fair with all parties involved, Bob. The current athletes, they had nothing to do with it. I hate the fact that they're going to be impacted, but there's always collateral damage when there's a punitive measure put in place. And I think the right thing was done because for me it begins and it ends with the young people who were raped and abused. That says it all to me.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Obviously, there-- something like this can't happen without consequences, but what the people in Penn State argue, some of them, and in the community, as well as some members of the board, is that the wrong people are being punished. The guys that did this have been fired. They've been sent on their way. And it's the football players, it's the fans who are being punished here, Bill?

BILL RHODEN: Oh, God. You got to stop, I mean, that-- that's the whole problem. The only innocent people in this whole drama are the kids who were raped. You know I don't know if anybody has been the-- the-- the victim of abuse. But that's something that's forever. They're the only people-- and the fact that-- if you listen to this whole thing, only thing that Penn State wanted, the only thing it would listen to is, let us play football. That's the only thing they wanted. Let us in the game. Let us in the game. As long as we're in the game, we can make a little money here, make money-- if you shut it down, you're sending a message that resonates to California, down to Alabama, up-- up to the Northeast, but by letting them play ball, that's the only thing they want to do-- just let us play ball.

JAMES BROWN: The competitiveness-- the competitiveness-- competitiveness of the program is going to be impacted by the reduction in scholarships for sure. No bowl money revenue will be disseminated at all. Sixty million dollars is a pretty significant hit, especially to the second biggest employer in the state, their being-- being the Penn State University.

So I think it was very punitive for sure. I do hate that the kids won't be able to pursue. But you know what that's life. I mean Sara said it back in the greenroom, there's nothing fair about that, but when you're talking about a situation that is as egregious as this, the right thing was done.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, Sara, talk to us a little bit. I mean, as a reporter, I'm interested. This must have been a very tough story to get.

SARA GAMIN: Well, you know, it's-- it's funny you say that actually, because when you talk about-- a lot of people have been talking about the culture at Penn State. As reporters in State College, there was a joke. We used to call Penn State, the Kremlin. And it really was in-- impenetrable. I mean, the Penn State, the practices were closed, the football program was incredibly secret, and when you talk about what happened and-- and looking back in hindsight, these were things that were not really-- the-- these were known things. It was very difficult to get information out of Penn State, out of administration, out of the football program. It was just impossible. And so that, you know, that's definitely carried through. And I, in some ways, I think President Erickson recognizes that and is trying to make things more open but I do think Penn State has a long way to go before we really know what's going on.

BOB SCHIEFFER: What did you do? Did you get a tip? How did you find out about this?

SARA GAMIN: Yeah, I got a tip. It was-- it was, you know, kind of dumb luck in a way. It-- you know, I asked a source, anything else going on, what else should I know and-- and the person said to me--

BILL RHODEN: Here you go.

SARA GAMIN: --hey, you know, Jerry Sandusky has been accused. And-- and this is at the point where it's just one--

BILL RHODEN: Mm.

SARA GAMIN: --child, one boy, a teen boy, who he had accused him. And, you know, six weeks later that person called me back and said, "Hey, remember that thing I told you. Never mind, it's not true." And that was the beginning of three years before we really could get a solid story to print.

BUZZ BISSINGER: You know and there's still a lot of unanswered questions. I have a lot of questions about the conduct of Governor Tom Corbett, why this investigation took so long. Why was a grand jury impaneled, as opposed to arresting Mister Sandusky and then you could have continued, you know, the investigation? I mean he put other children at risk. This investigation took three years. He had one investigator. He says two, on the case for the first two years. A narcotics officer, and by the way, he was an attorney general running for governor, and you have to ask the question, was he scared of offending the Penn State base, which is enormous in the state of Pennsylvania.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Jim Rome, I asked President Erickson, what about Joe Paterno, did he stay too long? I found him fairly forthcoming considering the circumstances. But he clearly dodged that question. He said, well, people have to make up their own judgments about whether he stayed too long? Is that what happened here? Was this an icon who just should have retired or been retired some years ago?

JIM ROME: Yeah, Bob, I don't think it's a matter of him staying too long. I think it's a matter of a man who had an opportunity to do the right thing and did not do so. I mean the one thing that we could always believe in, in college sports was Joe Paterno, a man of integrity, a man of virtue, a man that would do the right thing given the right opportunity at the right time, but that's not what he did. I mean a lot of Penn State fans are really upset about this, but the fact of the matter is, this is his now legacy. This went on under his watch. He knew about it, the AD knew about it, the vice president knew about it and the president knew about it. And he did not do the right thing. And unfortunately, this is now what he's going to be remembered for more than anything else--not that he stayed too long but that he had a chance to do the right thing and didn't do it.

JAMES BROWN: Hey, Bob, (INDISTINCT) coattail in what Jim Rome is saying, that to me, galls me the most. You've got adults who were in position of responsibility dared to be carrying the banner for honesty and integrity and transparency and they failed miserably in that. And this-- while this is the most egregious situation that I've seen, the tail wagging the dog, the athletic department, wa-- wagging the dog at a big-time athletic program is nothing novel. I'm just hopeful. I'm not very confident that it's going to happen that there will be a significant change because this isn't the only place where the tail is wagging the dog. Big-time co-- college athletics is viewed through the prism of money and it runs the show.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. We're going to keep talking about this.

Well, you have to take a little break and make a little money for FACE THE NATION. We'll be right back.

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BOB SCHIEFFER: I want to go back to Sara. Do you think-- you just heard Jim Rome say and we all seemed pretty much in agreement that Coach Paterno had to know something about this. Do you think he was just out of it, though? Was-- was this-- is this a fellow who had had a great career but probably didn't really know what was going on? Then-- because it seems to me like the self-perpetuation of the Joe Paterno legend became even larger than the football program at Penn State.

SARA GAMIN: I would say it was larger than Penn State. Joe Paterno and Penn State were basically synonymous. And, you know, I think that-- when I talked to students there and I've been talking a lot to students. I was a student not that long ago at Penn State. One thing that I really hope that people learn from this is that, you know, this was almost idol worship at this point of Joe Paterno. And it's just not fair to the fans. It's not fair to the person, to Joe, that we-- we holds (sic) people to such a high standard to such-- on such a pedestal. I mean, really, honestly, to erect a statue, a larger-than-life statue of someone who is still alive--

JAMES BROWN: Yeah.

SARA GAMIN: --you know, on campus, in front of the place where they work. Can you imagine going into work every day with a ten-foot statue of yourself--

BUZZ BISSINGER: I'd like that.

SARA GAMIN: --in front of the entrance? And, you know, and this is what-- this is what happens.

BILL RHODEN: Nick-- Nick Saban does. Nick Saban does. Nick Saban-- Nick Saban goes down-- goes down whatever it's called, and there is a big statue of Nick Saban because he now won a national championship.

BUZZ BISSINGER: Look, you know, we can use Joe Paterno's age as an excuse. Joe Paterno was a dictator. It took five years and an appeal to the state supreme court to get his salary which was public. He knew something was going on in 1998. He definitely, according to the Freeh report, had an impact on the decision that was made in 2001. At the end of the day, Jerry Sandusky was a member of the football mafia family, and as long as you don't rat, you're a member of the family, and what is the most troublesome in all those emails we've read, not one word about any of the (INDISTINCT) not a single word.

JAMES BROWN (overlapping): You know what-- I-- I don't begrudge the success of any college coach who wins and wins consistently and does it right. I don't know all the story there. Time and distance from it will tell the full story. There's a truth that says that which was done in the dark will ultimately come to the light. So, I don't begrudge the success. It's just the degree to which we defy them and then they're insulted, there's no firewall between. The university is supposed to be running the show and that doesn't happen in many places.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, let me bring Jim Rome back in this. So, we know how it happened at-- at Penn State. Do we have the same kind of situation at other big universities around the country because football has suddenly become very, very big business, not suddenly but is very big business?

JIM ROME: You know, Bob, I got a couple of thoughts on that. Number one, it will never be like it was at Penn State because we're talking about somebody that was there for forty-plus years and we're talking about a very small community that really derives a lot of its identity, both from that university and the football program. So, we can never be like it was at Penn State with Joe Paterno. That was an anomaly in an of itself. However, I would say-- and Nick Saban's name came up, you can't tell me the Nick Saban is any less powerful right now than he was before this whole thing went down. To me that's what's so troubling. This is not going to change anything at all. The only thing this is going to change is the way Joe Paterno was seen. It's going to change the way that football team looks on the field there. But it's not going to change anything nationally because the stakes are always going to be what they're going to be and people are going to want to win and that's not going to change. I don't think it changes anything.

BILL RHODEN: Do you think Les Miles has less power than-- than the President at LSU? Are you kidding me?

BUZZ BISSINGER: None of them do.

BILL RHODEN: Yeah, you know, and so I just want to make this very clear about this whole thing. I think that what we're talking about here and you mentioned the mafia. We're talking about death penalty. The NCAA itself should get a death penalty. They-- I want to get back to it. They took care of the member of the club, okay. Penn State was a member-- they slapped them around publicly, sixty million dollars-- USC, we were slapping them around a couple of years ago. USC is a pre-season number one. And guess what? And USC may get one of Penn State's guys. I mean, this business, the deeper you get into it, is incestuous and it's coming to the point it's immoral. And-- and look at what we're doing here. We're-- we're punishing a-- a moral trespass with money. We're saying, okay, you-- you could raise some more but give-- give us some money.

BUZZ BISSINGER (overlapping): You are also punishing the sanctions. You are punishing with significant sanctions more--

BILL RHODEN: But it's still money.

BUZZ BISSINGER: --more than USC, yes, it was a PR move for the NCAA. Is it going to change the culture of college football? No. Should players be paid-- should players be paid? Of course, but we have the-- this myth, this ridiculous myth of the whole man that never existed, that was perpetuated by Walter Camp and Grantland Rice. It's a disgrace. And the NCAA is a disgrace and part of it was a PR move.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Sara, how many of the football players-- they can now transfer to other schools without losing any eligibility. What's your take? What are you hearing? You think many of them will?

SARA GANIM: No, I think many of them are going to stay--

BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you?

SARA GANIM: --out of loyalty. And, you know, I think-- there's really only one--correct me if I'm wrong, guys--but there's only one that's even been talking--

BUZZ BISSINGER: Right, right.

SARA GANIM: --openly talking (INDISTINCT) to USC and-- and most of the players at Big Ten Media Day said, "Look, we're sticking together. This is a decision we're making as a team. We're going to play this season and there-- I think a lot of them are standing behind Bill O'Brien. It's the same kind of reaction in the community. People are saying, I don't care how much a football ticket is? I'm going to go to the games. Even if I wasn't going to go to the games otherwise to show, hey, you can't beat, you know, you can't beat me down. I'm going, you know, in a sport Penn State.

BILL RHODEN: They're doing moves.

BOB SCHIEFFER: We're about to run out of time. I want to go back to what Buzz said. Should we be play-- paying our college athletes?

BILL RHODEN: No, no, no, I-- I don't believe in that. I-- I do believe, you know--

BOB SCHIEFFER: Because they're the only ones that have been off making a whole bunch of money out of this.

BILL RHODEN: Yeah, that-- well, that's the rule of the NCAA. The only people who make money are the-- are the adults. But, you know, I don't-- I don't believe that-- I-- I do believe-- I do believe that there is something to be said for going to these great universities and getting an education.

BUZZ BISSINGER: But that-- they don't go there for that. They don't have the time. They don't have the wherewithal.

BILL RHODEN: I think a lot do. I think a lot do. I think a lot do.

BUZZ BISSINGER: I think very few do. I think very few do. And Cam Newton probably made tens of millions of dollars for Auburn, tens of millions of dollars and gets nothing. It isn't fair. It is a form of indenturement.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, I'm sorry, that is where-- we'll probably continue this conversation after we go off the air but then we have to end this part, but we'll be back in a minute. Thank you all so much.

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BOB SCHIEFFER: Even with a full hour of FACE THE NATION, this morning when Jan Crawford got that interview with Mitt Romney, we just didn't have enough time for our interview with Sandra Day O'Connor. We want to apologize to Justice O'Connor and we will have that interview on next week. Thanks. We'll see you in a minute.

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BOB SCHIEFFER: That's it for us today. We'll be back here same time, same place, next week. See you then.