"Face the Nation" transcript: November 27, 2011

Below is a rush transcript of "Face the Nation" on November 27, 2011, hosted by CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer. The guests are author of "The Help" Kathryn Stockett, former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, "Boomerang" author Michael Lewis and Steve Jobs biographer Walter Isaacson.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Today on Face the Nation, our annual Thanksgiving weekend "Books and Authors" show. And what a group we've brought together. Kathryn Stockett, author of "The Help," the book about race in the Jim Crow South that has topped the best-seller list since 2009 and led to the hit movie.

Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, whose memoir "No Higher Honor" tells of her days as George Bush's secretary of state. Michael Lewis, author of "Boomerang," the explosive best-seller about Wall Street. And Walter Isaacson, the best-selling author of the new biography of Steve Jobs. They're all head on Face the Nation.

ANNOUNCER: From CBS News in Washington, Face the Nation with Bob Schieffer.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And good morning again. Well, we are all here and I'm gonna start with Kathryn Stockett because, among those of us who write books from time to time, you are the hero. How long has that book been on the best-seller list?

KATHRYN STOCKETT: (LAUGH) don't know. I try not to keep track of numbers like that, but it seems like it's been a very long time.

BOB SCHIEFFER: But back to 2009, right?

KATHRYN STOCKETT: Yeah. It came out in February '09. And somehow I am still on book tour. I need to write another one. (LAUGH)

BOB SCHIEFFER: And it is still number one on the best-- on the-- paperback list, isn't it?

KATHRYN STOCKETT: It's-- it's-- yeah, th-- I mean, there-- it's hovering around there somewhere. But I know this is short-lived. I know that--

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, it's not short-lived--

KATHRYN STOCKETT: --you know, it doesn't last forever.

BOB SCHIEFFER: --so far, I'll tell ya that for sure. It-- it is a book that-- I must say, it is pitch perfect. I grew up in that era, I grew up in Fort Worth, and-- and this is the story about these-- black women who raised white babies-- across the South. And-- and is a-- it is simply a remarkable story. And-- you-- you really caught it-- exactly right. Why did-- how did you come upon or how did you get the idea of writing this book?

KATHRYN STOCKETT: So I was living downtown in New York City-- and-- was, you know, trying to write a book. And 9/11 occurred, and I became so homesick. And the voice that I really wanted to hear was that of Demetri. She was the African American woman who worked for our family for over 30 years. And-- you know, she'd been dead since I was 16, so the best way I know as a writer to channel the voice of the dead is-- is-- is to write in their voice.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Uh-huh. And so you went back and you did all the research of that era and that period?

KATHRYN STOCKETT: You know, for me, it really was just like playing a tape recorder back in my head. So the research was kind of-- it was reminiscing, for me. And-- and, you know, I get a lot of criticism for writing in such-- a heavy dialect, but for me that-- that was how I remembered Demetri's voice.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Condoleezza Rice, you grew up in the South, sort of on the other side of town. How did that shape you?

CONDOLEEZZA RICE: Well, growing up in the South, segregated Birmingham, probably the most segregated big city in America, shaped me fundamentally because-- my-- my family had to persevere under though circumstances-- to educate all of us. And to insist that we might not be able to control our circumstances but we could control our response.

And when I read The Help, it was really, for me, a South that I didn't know very well. You're right; I lived on the other side of town. The South was very stratified, and in our little m-- middle-class community-- it was a very different world than the one that Kitty wrote about. So I loved her book too.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You know, it-- it-- what brought it home to me is that-- growing up in Fort Worth in those days, which is not exactly the South, it's-- it's the west, but it was very segregated. The black people lived on one side of town; we lived on the other. To the extent that I did not actually shake hands with a black person until I was a second lieutenant in the United States Air Force.

And-- it had such an impression on me, I can still remember exactly where it was. It was in the passenger terminal at Travis Air Force Base. It wasn't that I didn't-- particularly didn't want to, I just had never had the opportunity. It was-- it was that-- that divided. Walter Isaacson, you-- you grew up in New Orleans.

WALTER ISAACSON: Uh-huh.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You grew up in the South. And now you've written this remarkable book about-- Steve Jobs. But let's talk a little bit about Kathryn's book first. What was it like for you and-- and how--

WALTER ISAACSON: Well, if you grew up in New Orleans you really do have an antenna for race. I remember vividly the first time it came into my consciousness. I was walkin' through Audubon Park and-- with my cousin, and-- he said he wanted to go to-- the merry-go-round. And we were with a young African American kid who was the daughter of somebody who worked at a family in the neighborhood.

And I remembered a sign on the merry-go-round that said, "White Only." I was six years old, and so I'd never focused on what that meant. And, boom, it kicked me right then that, "Oh my god, that's what that sign means." And I kept insisting we not go there. And that was burned into me so that I-- I think I grew up always feeling those sort of-- vibes that-- and-- even in Audubon Park then they had closed the swimming pool because it had been ordered integrated. And we led a group of young kids and forced them to reopen the sen-- the swimming pool.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Wow. Michael Lewis-- you also grew up in New Orleans, and in fact you went to-- Walter Isaacson's high school. I guess he's considerably older than you are, and was he always a role model for you? (LAUGH)

MICHAEL LEWIS: We all grew up in Walter's shadow. (LAUGH) That-- w-- it-- yeah, that-- and I have-- I-- I have a hard time imagining Walter back then as a civil rights leader, but maybe he was. We-- by the time I came along-- th-- it wa-- it's very interesting, the-- the nature of-- racial desegregation.

Because when-- I can remember wh-- when I came along, institutional New Orleans was still very, very segregated, but street life was not. I mean-- you got out of school and you were playing with black kids and white kids on the street, and you didn't really think about it. And so when it was-- when-- when this idea that you weren't supposed to be together was re-imposed in you at the institutional level, it seemed outrageous.

But-- but-- but, yes, I grew up-- w-- you asked me a question. Walter was a kind of-- he was-- he was f-- everyone who went to the Newman School was forced every couple of years to listen b-- f-- to a speech from the headmaster about how we were all supposed to become like Walter Isaacson. (LAUGHTER)

WALTER ISAACSON: Michael, you're still embarrassin' me after all these years. (LAUGH)

BOB SCHIEFFER: Condoleezza Rice, I want to go back to you 'cause I do want to talk about-- your book as well. But it-- it does kind of tie into this-- this tie to the South that you have. You were really in the-- Bush administration-- among the first to recognize the real problem that Katrina presented for the administration. And you-- you tell a very touching-- story about-- you in New York-- when you realized-- what had happened and what it all meant. Talk a little bit about that.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE: Yes, absolutely. I just want to say one other thing too. Walter mentioned the segregation of pools in New Orleans; I didn't learn to swim until I was 25 because Beau Connor wouldn't-- segregated the pools in Alabama. And so I think we have some common experiences (LAUGH) with segregation. Yes, I was in fact-- the-- during Katrina, I knew that a big hurricane was coming. I was really tired. I'd been secretary of state for nine, ten months. I went to New York-- for a vacation. I was gonna take in a show, go to the U.S. Open-- maybe do some shoe shopping, which I'm known to do.

And as the hurricane unfolded, I did what I thought the secretary of state needed to do. I made provisions for our passport office in-- in New Orleans. I made sure we had a way to receive-- the contributions that were coming around-- coming in from around the world.

But then that morning, on Thursday morning, when I woke up, there I was in New York, and I thought, "How could you have been so stupid, to have not realized-- that you are not just the secretary of state, you're the pres-- one of the president's closest advisors. This is a national tragedy. And most importantly, you are the highest-ranking African American in the administration, and Katrina has a tragically black face. What are you doing in New York?" And I got a plane back to Washington that afternoon.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And what did you do? You-- you actually went down there, didn't you?

CONDOLEEZZA RICE: Well, I did. I first went to the White House and-- talked to the president about what I said was our race problem. I talked to Bruce Gordon, who was then the president of the N.A.A.C.P. Set up for him to meet with the president, and he was gracious about doing so.

And then I did go south. I went to Mobile, actually-- to my home state of Alabama. Talked with people there who'd lost everything. Went to an A.M.E., African Methodist Episcopal church-- that morning-- for church-- because I really wanted it to be seen that the president of the United States had not just compassion but real concern-- for this unfolding tragedy in New Orleans.

BOB SCHIEFFER: I want to-- talk to each of you a little bit about your books. Michael Lewis, I wanna go back to you. You write these great books because you can explain the most complicated things. Whether it's-- football and-- and-- as you did in-- in that great book about-- Michael Oher, The Blind Side, or whether it's about Wall Street. You did it in The Big Short; this is kind of a follow-on. Where do you think right now we are-- this country, and-- and our financial footing? W-- how do you see all this-- coming down here?

MICHAEL LEWIS: We are blissfully irresponsible. I th-- and-- we can kind of afford to be. I mean, th-- this-- this-- this collapse of discussion-- ab-- about reducing the debt at the-- at the-- at the level of the super committee is a really good example of this. For that matter, the-- the S&P's reduction of-- of the credit rating of the United States-- Treasury.

That-- that we are unlike-- European countries, we aren't-- yet vulnerable to this vicious cycle where-- where market-- when markets-- where market's actually c-- considering the possibility that we won't repay our debts. So when one of these things happens, I mean, it's really bizarre what's going on right now.

00:11:04:00The-- the-- the Congress fails to address-- the problem of-- of our deficits and the Treasury bond market rallies. People-- pe-- people-- the market's response is to throw money at the Treasury. We can ba-- we're basically being paid to borrow money.

And I think that as long as that's true, we're okay. B-- the-- the risk is that at one-- at some point, the markets wake up and do to us what they've done to Greece and what they're doing to other peripheral countries in Europe. And they say-- "Sorry, we don't believe you anymore," and we-- and we're gonna jack up the rate of interest. And when we jack up the rate of interest-- we-- we-- all of a sudden, we're in that cycle where-- we can't afford to repay our debts.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Kathryn-- as a-- novelist, somehow who sits back and takes the long view of all of this, what is your sense of where America is right now? It seems to me we're in a kind of a mean time. We seem to have lost patience. We're kind of a fast food society. We demand perfection at every turn, which is never gonna be possible. How does it look to you?

KATHRYN STOCKETT: Well, look. You know, what Michael said I wonder about because nobody's-- throwin' money at me to take out a loan. And-- I-- I live, you know, by my-- my father and my grandfather's standard, and that is you don't pay interest. You pay cash for it if you can, and if you can't then you just don't buy it.

And I know that a lot of Americans don't have that kinda money sittin' around. But-- you know, there was a whole generation that passed us by that used to live that way. You spent what was in your pocket and no more. And I-- I-- I would like to see America go back to those values.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Walter, what do you think's going on right now? Has our culture changed? Has this-- communications revolution that-- Steve Jobs had so much to do with-- has it changed our culture and-- and th-- the way we are?

WALTER ISAACSON: Yeah, at the moment, particularly, we've become very divisive as a culture. We can't get things done. I mean, Steve Jobs used to talk about the difference between leadership in the private sector, where if he wanted to create a new product, he and people would decide what to do. But if he wants to have a factory built in California, it can't be done because there's, you know, just too much to go through, and he ends up outsourcing the jobs.

And we're gonna end up with a country that doesn't really have a great manufacturing base, if we don't watch out, with our education system and our ability to build factories. I think that's easily reversible because we're a very creative culture, we're very imaginative. We know how to do what Steve Jobs did, which is connect imagination to technology. But we have to make sure we're doing that this century like we did last century.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Condi Rice, what about our politics today? There's not much to be proud of there, it seems to me. Where do you-- what do you--

CONDOLEEZZA RICE: Yeah.

BOB SCHIEFFER: --see happening here?

CONDOLEEZZA RICE: Well, I'm afraid that our politics have sort of sped up and gotten very loud. Our politics, our-- our system needs compromise because our system, our institutions, are naturally slow: Divided powers-- two houses of Congress. And it seems to me the ability to reach across the aisle and compromise has become a bit-- a bit jaded-- we've become a bit jaded as a country.

But, you know, I think we've got a deeper problem-- Bob, and it-- it speaks to-- the way that, for instance, I and my family-- got ahead. I think the biggest single problem we've got is the K-12 education system. I'm worried about the deficit, I'm worried about us spending more money-- than we have.

But when I look out there and I see that I can look at your zip code and tell whether or not you're gonna get a good education, that's gonna go right to the core of-- who we are as Americans. And, yes, we will have unemployable people. Yes, we will continue to have the statistic we have now: Only 30 percent of the people who take the basic skills test to get into the military can pass it. But I think it's gonna drive us into-- class warfare like we've never seen because education, even in the segregated South, was always the way that you got out.

BOB SCHIEFFER: I must say, I could not agree more with what you're saying. We're gonna take a break here and we'll come back. And I'm gonna give each of you a chance to ask someone on the panel (MUSIC) a question when we come back.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And we're back with our panel of distinguished authors. They get a chance to turn the tables here. Kitty, your question, and who would it be to?

KATHRYN STOCKETT: To Dr. Rice, absolutely. I'm in the middle of reading your book, and I have to tell you, one of the f-- parts that really rang home with me is when you were at the conference for the Middle East and you set your speech aside and said, "Look, I know what it feels like to be Palestinian and be told that you cannot walk down the highway because of who you are. At the same time, I understand what it feels like to be an Israeli mother and wonder if your house is gonna be bombed and your children will be killed."

And I thought that was just-- that-- that-- it was just so honest of you to expose yourself that way. And my question for you is a question that I receive all the time, and that is are things better today-- among African Americans and-- and whites than they were? And I'm asked that question, and I always feel like that's kinda like-- you know, Walter pinching Michael and someone asking me, "What does that feel like?" But you still have family in Birmingham. What-- what do you think about that?

CONDOLEEZZA RICE: Well, it's a very good question, and I'm asked it all the time too. And I always say that-- first of all, we're never going to erase-- race as a factor in American life. It is a birth defect with which this country was born out of slavery; we're never really gonna be race blind.

But we have gotten to a place that-- race is not the limiting factor that it once was. I don't think that we necessarily look at someone who's of a different color now and say, "Oh, I know what they are capable of." We have a black president. We've had two black secretaries of state. We have-- black CEOs. Obviously-- African Americans are pushing-- way into territories that w-- probably my grandparents would never have thought possible.

But again, I think it goes back to whether or not race and class, that is race and poverty, is not becoming even more of a constraint. Because with the failing public schools, I worry that the-- the way that my grandparents got out of-- poverty, the way that my parents became educated, is just not gonna be there for a whole bunch of kids. And I do think that race and poverty is still a terrible witch's brew.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Michael Lewis, do you have a question for the panel?

MICHAEL LEWIS: Yes. The-- I'd like to-- can I ask everybody one question if-- as lo-- it's a quick question; I'd like a quick answer. (LAUGH) And that is everybody on this panel-- grew up in the South-- and left. Kitty's come back, and everybody's-- everybody's had this experience of leaving the South. Tha-- what I wonder-- I'd love to hear what the other three panelists think would have happened to their lives had they never left where they grew up. What would you have become?

BOB SCHIEFFER: I would answer first and just say I wouldn't have gotten to go to work (LAUGH) at CBS. I-- I mean, the reason I came to Washington is 'cause I was offered a job and I needed the money. That's--

MICHAEL LEWIS: So what would you have been? What--

BOB SCHIEFFER: I-- I don't know.

MICHAEL LEWIS: --would you have been if you'd stayed home?

BOB SCHIEFFER: I-- I have no idea. I suppose I would have worked at the Fort Worth Star Telegram which is where I worked-- before-- before I came north. Walter?

WALTER ISAACSON: Well, you know, m-- Mike, I was down in New Orleans all last week. And you used to say that 100 years ago, New Orleans was a very entrepreneurial culture, and after the storm, perhaps we could get that back. I was surprised at how vibrant and entrepreneurial New Orleans now is. If I had stayed there, obviously I would have been a writer and a journalist. I worked at the Picayune. I would have-- maybe even tried to write fiction, like Kathryn did, but-- wouldn't have been as successful doin' it--

BOB SCHIEFFER: What about you--

WALTER ISAACSON: --I'm sure.

BOB SCHIEFFER: --Dr. Rice?

CONDOLEEZZA RICE: I would have been a school teacher, like all of my relatives. (LAUGH) Not a bad profession, but I think--

BOB SCHIEFFER: Absolutely.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE: I would have been a teacher in the Birmingham public schools.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Kitty?

KATHRYN STOCKETT: I would probably still be livin' in Jackson, Mississippi-- wonderin' why I got kicked out of the Junior League. (LAUGHTER)

BOB SCHIEFFER: Condi Rice, would you like to ask the question?

CONDOLEEZZA RICE: I'd like to ask a question of my-- friend Walter. Walter, you've done biographies about-- people who you couldn't interview, like-- Einstein and Ben Franklin, and then this wonderful biography of Steve Jobs. I'm always struck by whether people could have been something else. We tend to think of these great figures as destined to do what they did. Is there anything else that you could have imagined Steve Jobs doing, other than what he did?

WALTER ISAACSON: You know, he talked about dropping out of college and going into the intersection of art and technology, which is what he did. But he said he almost thought of going east, and tried to go do that counter-factual. "What would I have been if I had-- gone into a different field?" I think he would have-- he had two sides to him: The artistic side, and the geeky tech side. I think he would have been more of an artist if he had gone east.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Walter, I'm sorry, we don't have time for--

WALTER ISAACSON: That's all right.

BOB SCHIEFFER: --your question. We'll have ya next time. But I think any of you could now be-- the moderators of Face the Nation. (LAUGHTER) You ask very good questions. I wanna thank all of you for being with us today.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Finally today, Christmas has its music, the Fourth has fireworks, but I like Thanksgiving best because it's the one holiday we celebrate by doing what we shouldn't - having a big second helping.

Thanksgiving is the one holiday that isn't about someone or something else. It is just about being with those we love, so we gather, give thanks, and then dig into a great meal.

There is a formal run-up to some of the other holidays. Easter is preceded by Good Friday. Christmas Eve is the set-up for Christmas.

But Thanksgiving has not just a run-up (which begins with Getaway Day on Wednesday) but also a run-out, as it were, that is observed with the same discipline.

The day after Thanksgiving is Black Friday for shoppers, and Leftover Day for the rest of us.

And then there is today, Sunday. Go Home Day for the in-laws (or outlaws, as some call them). The day when we say, "We love 'em, but it's time for everyone to get back on their own boat."

There is no better way to celebrate Go Home Day than to go to the fridge right now and see if there are enough scraps to put together one more turkey sandwich.

A little turkey, a little mayonnaise, some salt and pepper on white bread - all you need to end a great weekend.

That's our broadcast. We'll be back next time.