"Face the Nation" transcript May 13: Same-sex marriage, bomb plot leak, Mother's Day panel
(CBS News) Below is a rush transcript of "Face the Nation" on May 13, 2012, hosted by CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer. How will the President's same-sex marriage announcement play in Campaign 2012? Guests include Gov. Deval Patrick, D-Mass., Ted Olson, Tony Perkins, Clay Aiken, Evan Wolfson and Mark McKinnon. Then, the latest on the terrorist bomb plot with Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich.; and a Mother's Day panel with Anita Dunn, Bay Buchanan, Melinda Henneberger and Norah O'Donnell.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Today on FACE THE NATION, it was the statement that launched a thousand reactions.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I think same-sex couples should be able to get married.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Many hailed it as historic, but not everyone. Republican Senator Rand Paul.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: He said that his views were evolving on marriage and call me cynical, but I-- I wasn't sure that his views on marriage could get any gayer.
BOB SCHIEFFER: So what is the political fallout? Mitt Romney said flatly this is one place to draw the line.
MITT ROMNEY: Marriage is a relationship between one man and one woman.
BOB SCHIEFFER: It is an issue that cuts across party, geographic and ethnic lines, and we'll hear from all sides. Ted Olson, the former Bush administration solicitor general; Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick; Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council; former Bush political advisor and Newsweek contributor Mark McKinnon; Evan Wolfson who heads Freedom to Marry; and American Idol singer and activist, Clay Aiken, all join us today.
On page two, we'll get the latest on the capture of a terrorist bomb by the double agent.
And this weekend's drone strikes in Yemen from House Intelligence Committee chairman Mike Rogers.
And on this Mother's Day, we'll round it out with analysis on all of the above from Republican strategist, Bay Buchanan; former Obama communications director Anita Dunn; Melinda Henneberger of the Washington Post; and our own Norah O'Donnell.
This is FACE THE NATION.
ANNOUNCER: From CBS News in Washington FACE THE NATION with Bob Schieffer.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And good morning, again, and welcome to FACE THE NATION on this Mother's Day. We're going to hear many voices on this issue of gay marriage, same-sex marriage, this morning. But we're going to begin with Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick, who's in Richmond, Massachusetts, and former Bush administration solicitor general, Ted Olson who joins us from Ellison Bay, Wisconsin. Gentlemen, a Gallup poll out Friday shows that sixty percent of Americans say the President's support for same-sex marriage will have no impact on whether or not they will vote for him, versus twenty-six percent who say it will make them less likely to vote for him, and thirteen percent who say they are more likely to vote for him because of this announcement.
I want to go first to Ted Olson, the conservative's conservative, the founder of The Federalist Society, George Bush's solicitor general. But you, Mister Olson, join with David Boies to argue in federal court that California's ban on gay marriage should be overturned, a case that may well go now to the Supreme Court. You've also been very active in Republican politics over the years. So I want to ask you to start here what is your advice now to Mitt Romney and Republicans in general on how to handle the statement that the President made?
TED OLSON (Partner, Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher/Former U.S. Solicitor General): Well, I think it's very important for everyone, Republicans and Democrats alike, liberals and conservatives, to recognize that the right of individuals who love one another to get married and to be respected and treated with equality and dignity is exceedingly important. The more people understand that people have been waiting for years for the opportunity for their relationships to be treated equally and so that they can form a loving household is exceedingly important and it's an American value and we should all recognize that.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you think it was a smart political move for the President because many people and most polls show that gay and lesbian voters would have voted for him anyway. Is this going to help him politically, or will it-- or will it hurt him?
TED OLSON: Bob, no one asked me for political advice. I would say that it's an important statement as an American, as the President of the United States to recognize the equality and dignity of our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters and friends and neighbors. That's what's important, not what was right or wrong or popular or unpopular politically. I don't know about politics. I do know about human rights and constitutional rights, and on that basis, I think the President did the right thing. I'm very glad he did it.
BOB SCHIEFFER: I would argue with you on one thing. I think you do know about politics, but we will-- we won't go into that right now.
Governor Patrick, many religious voters, including many black voters, are opposed to same-sex marriage. Is this issue going to threaten and hurt the President politically?
GOVERNOR DEVAL PATRICK (D-Massachusetts): I don't think so, Bob. And I want to-- I want to thank Ted for his clear and principled position on this issue and it's consistent with the President's clear and principled position on the issue because it's about convictions. It's not about politics. You know, I dealt with something similar in Massachusetts when I was running the first time in dealing with-- with black clergy and the point I made to them is the same-- same point that President makes to voters nationally, which is that we don't have to agree on everything before we work together on anything. People get that this is about human dignity. And I applaud the President for standing up for human dignity. That is an American value. And it's a real indication of this President's leadership.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, some Republicans have said, and we may hear this, I suspect, in just a minute or two from some of the other folks on the panel, that this really is going to galvanize, in some ways, Governor Romney's support because there are a lot of people on the right side of the Republican Party that were--
GOVERNOR DEVAL PATRICK: Mm-Hm.
BOB SCHIEFER: --not quite sure of him on social issues. Do you think some social conservatives who might have been just lukewarm about Mitt Romney may now come right over and say, "I really like the guy now?"
GOVERNOR DEVAL PATRICK: Well, they may. It's, you know, those are voters, I suspect, who were not likely to vote for the President anyway, unless they vote their interest, which are economic interests, and this President is foursquare with them and standing with them in this election and in office. I think what we know is that Mitt Romney has occupied many positions on many issues, and he has, you know, back in 1994, when he was running for the United States Senate, he said publicly that he would be better than Ted Kennedy on gay and lesbian issues. He takes a different position in front of a different audience today. I think conservative voters know that about Mitt Romney. I think the American people know that about Mitt Romney as distinct from Barack Obama who is running on and leading through a set of convictions.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Mister Olson, let me ask you, do you intend to, in fact, support Mitt Romney this time around?
TED OLSON: I fully expect to, yes. I think that he would make a-- a great President. And he's very, very strong on so many things that I believe in and so many things that the American people believe in. I think that with respect to this issue, this issue is evolving and more the-- the more that the American people understand we're talking about the human heart and the dignity of our brothers and sisters, more and more people will come around and decide to allow individuals the right to marry the person that they love.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, I want to thank both of you.
I want to broaden the discussion out now and bring in some other folks. Also joining us this morning, Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council, Clay Aiken, who all of you know from his American Idol appearances and subsequent fame as-- as the singer and a songwriter. Newsweek Contributor Mark McKinnon, who was one of George W. Bush's campaign advisers and chief strategist; Evan Wolfson, who heads up Freedom to Marry, a group working for same-sex marriage.
Tony Perkins, let me just go to you first because I know your organization has opposed same-sex marriage from the start. So where do you see this going now?
TONY PERKINS (Family Research Council): Well, I clearly it-- when you see where this is going in the states, thirty-two states have voted to preserve the traditional definition of marriage. The Gallup poll, one released in the last week actually shows a six-point shift toward traditional marriage--fifty percent say it's okay; forty-eight percent say no. But it's shifting. And I think in part is because as Ted Olson said, I do think people are beginning to understand more, understand more that this is about more than just marriage. Couples today can live together. They can enter into civil contracts. They can get health benefits from their employer. What same-sex marriage is about is forcing the state to coerce others to accept relationships that run counter to their religious tradition. It's about curriculum in our schools. It's stepping in between the relationship between a parent and a child. As more Americans see that there is a lot more to this than just walking down the aisle the opposition is growing.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, I mean, do you see this as a line being drawn here? I mean do you think that this will be one of the defining issues this time around? I mean the poll says that sixty percent of the people say it doesn't--- doesn't matter.
TONY PERKINS: Well, it's-- it's interesting that we've-- we've heard this quite frequently, that the social and moral issues don't matter, but it's what took Rick Santorum from one percent in the Republican primary to almost replacing Mitt Romney as the-- as the nominee. These issues do matter. I don't think the President did a political calculus to do this because if he did, he needs to go back to the calculator because it's-- it's a bad-- it's a bad formula because when you look at the states-- North Carolina, a key swing state; Ohio, they have amendment, you know, sixteen-- the key swing states, ten of them have marriage amendments. And these marriage amendments haven't just kind of just barely eked across the line, they've passed on average with sixty-seven percent of the public behind them. So I think he was making a clear statement. I think Mitt Romney, at my alma mater yesterday, made a very strong statement, weaving it into the other issues. I thought he hit just the right tone yesterday at Liberty.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you about something that Senator Rand Paul said. We ran it at the top of the broadcast but I just want to get your thought on this.
SENATOR RAND PAUL (Friday): The President, you know, recently weighed in on marriage, and you know, he said that his views were evolving on marriage. Call me cynical, but I wasn't sure that his views on marriage could get any gayer.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Got a big laugh there. What's your take?
TONY PERKINS: I don't think it's a laughing manner. I don't think this is something we should-- we should joke about. We are talking about individuals who feel very strongly one way or the other, and I think we should be civil, respectful, allowing all sides to have the debate. I'm glad that's what you're doing here this morning. But I-- but I think there's-- this is not something to-- to laugh about. It's not something to poke fun at other people about. This is a very serious issue. And I think it's very much like the abortion issue. You know, forty years into Roe v. Wade the issue is still not resolved and I think in part of this because when you go back to civil rights, civil rights are-- are rooted in natural law. Americans just don't see same-sex marriage being natural.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me go to Clay Aiken. You are from North Carolina. The day before the President spoke, as Tony Perkins says, your home state overwhelmingly voted to defeat an initiative that basically gave domestic partners the same rights as people who were married. You are openly gay. But did the President's statement you think pretty much ensure he's going to lose your home state of North Carolina?
CLAY AIKEN (Singer and Activist): No, I don't. I think a lot of people-- I-- I don't agree that it seals it up for him. While we certainly see, as you said, sixty percent of people say it won't matter.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Mm-Hm.
CLAY AIKEN: I think the people who say it will matter on either side of the equation probably were not going to vote for Obama or were going to vote for President Obama anyway. I think as people in North Carolina start to look at this amendment and realize what it's doing not just for same-sex couples but for straight couples as well, they're going to reject it. The polls in North Carolina show that over sixty percent of North Carolinians actually support some sort of recognition for same-sex couples, be it civil unions or domestic partnerships. And-- and it was sort of a political calculation on the part of some people in the general assembly to get this on the ballot. And as North Carolinians see what it's done, and what it will do, I think that they will-- they will support the fact that President Obama did speak out on principle. It wasn't a political calculation, you're right. Because, you know, he spoke out and he said this is what I believe. And I think that we-- we'd-- we'd like to see politicians speak out on principle a little bit more and not do things politically calculated.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Evan Wolfson, you head a group that's determined to get same-sex marriage legalized nationwide. Some activists are actually talking now about trying to move the convention from North Carolina because of that vote that they took. Do you support that?
EVAN WOLFSON (Freedom to Marry): No, I do not. I think what we need in North Carolina and throughout the country is exactly what the President exemplified, which is talking about the conversations he's had in his life with real gay people, real families. He talked so powerfully about the conversations he and First Lady Michelle Obama have had about it, and it-- and that they've had with their own daughters and they talked about how their daughters have classmates who can't-- and they can't understand why their classmate's families wouldn't be treated fairly. These are the kinds of conversations that are changing hearts and minds. We're going to see more of those conversations in North Carolina and the arc will continue. I think what the President did was show real moral leadership, and he also underscored that when we talk about real families, it turns out there is no good reason for denying those families. The golden rule of treating them as you would want to be treated, the very values he and Michelle are trying to teach their kids.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me now go to Mark McKinnon. You are a political strategist and people on both sides say you are very good at what you do. You were one of the chief architects of the Presidents-- President Bush's victories. You wrote a piece in the Daily Beast recently and said Republicans basically need to kind of go carefully on this.
MARK MCKINNON (Newsweek Contributor, Hill and Knowlton): Well, I-- I actually said that-- that Republicans should recognize that what's important is that we have a President who leads and stands for what he believes in. President Bush won reelection in 2004, not because people liked him necessarily or even agreed with his policies, they voted for him because they thought he had core principles that he'd fight for them consistently. So I give the President great credit for voting his conscience. Because when you net this all out, it's not a political winner. I mean, North Carolina is very difficult. It's a key swing state. Think about all the key-- the ten, the nine swing states, Arizona, Iowa, Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio, and Virginia. When you look at those states and think about think about where is that going to help him, probably in just one, Colorado, maybe New Hampshire. But otherwise in the rest of the states, arguably, it's a net loser and the polling that's just been done in the last couple of days show that twenty-three percent of independents and ten percent of Democrats say it's-- make them less likely to vote for the President. So I think it's the right thing to do. I think it actually represents Republican philosophies and I agree completely with Ted Olson, who has been an icon and a-- and a-- and a-- he's a legend in Republicans. So for him to take this stance it really sends a signal for Republicans to do the right thing. And at bottom I agree with the great Texas philosopher Kinky Friedman who says gay couples should have the right to be just as miserable as straight couples.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. (INDISTINCT).
We'll take a little break for a commercial. We'll be back in one minute.
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BOB SCHIEFFER: And we're back now with our panel. I want to go back to Ted Olson, because Mark McKinnon brought out something. He-- you have talked, Mister Olson, about there may be kind of a libertarian strain running through part of the Republican Party that is talking about less government in people's lives and that this might be a one place where we might see a change there. Talk about that a little bit.
TED OLSON: Well, I think that marriage is a conservative value. Equality is a conservative value. I'm not saying that those aren't liberal values, either. But the Republican Party is the pres-- is the party of Abraham Lincoln. Equality and independence and people that love one another, that wish to form a stable bond, are part of our economy, are part of our community that should be a conservative value.
Forty-five years ago, the Supreme Court held unanimously that fourteen states that prohibited interracial marriage were violating the constitution. In those states, our President today, his mother and father, could not have been married without committing a felony. Today, we can't believe that in America interracial couples were not permitted to be married just forty-five years ago in many states of the United States. We're-- I'm hoping that we're coming to the point where we can give the same respect and decency to individuals who wish to marry someone of the same sex, and as the prime minister of Great Britain said, "I'm not for gay marriage despite the fact I'm a conservative. I'm for gay marriage because I'm a conservative."
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, let me go to Tony Perkins. And-- how do you respond that? Do you ever see evangelicals coming around to the point of view of Ted Olson?
TONY PERKINS (Family Research Council): No, I mean, I think, look, when you look at interracial marriage, that was wrong. There was no reason to be opposed to that because you had two people who met the definition of marriage between a man and a woman. And-- and-- and-- and that's-- that's consistent with natural law, which our civil rights are based on. When you look at same-sex marriage, that's counter to natural law. And, again, we see what comes along-- and this is not theoretical. We've actually seen it-- where parents lose the right to determine what their children are taught in school. Religious organizations forced to recognize or allow their facilities to be used for weddings such as this. So I don't-- I don't see that happening. I see this more along the lines of the abortion debate. This you can-- you can make it legal, but you can't make it right. And I do not think that you're going to see the Republican Party coming to agreement on this. I do think there's this libertarian viewpoint, but less-- the key to less government is to ensure that kids have moms and dads, not-- not just two caregivers because if there were two, three would be better. It's moms and dads. That's what's important.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well let-- let me talk to-- to Clay about this because he had a big decision to make, and-- and after you had your-- your first child, you decided that you needed to come out. And I would just like to ask you, what kind of an impact did that have on your-- on your professional career? Because I know the base of country music, which is something I know a little bit about, is-- is fairly conservative.
CLAY AIKEN: I think-- I think today it's even less conservative in national in the-- in the country music world than it is-- that it was in 2003 when I was on Idol. It hasn't really had much of an impact at all in a negative sense. It's had more of a positive impact. I think-- I think between the time of 2003 to today, we've seen as we've seen with gay marriage polling, we've seen minds changing. We've seen people becoming more open and understanding of-- of homosexuality. I want to address the fact that, you know, what-- what you just said a second ago. When my mother married my stepfather, she went to a church, a Baptist church, and since she had been divorced they wouldn't let her get married there. So churches don't-- are able to decide who gets married at a church and regardless. Obviously, you've got-- you've got people who make the argument that interracial relationships back in the seventies, people made the same arguments against interracial relationships, as they're making against same-sex marriages today. So I feel-- I really strongly believe that in the next twenty years, we're going to look back on this, and be sort of ashamed of the fact that we were against this, just as we're ashamed today that we didn't let people of-- of different races get married.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Where do you see this going, Mark?
MARK MCKINNON: Well, the arc of history is bending forward and-- and it's not going backwards. And-- and I respect Tony's position. I have a lot of friends like Tony who say that they take literally words that were written in the scripture two thousand years ago. But I like Ted take words that were written two hundred years ago on the Declaration of Independence that guarantee the pursuit of happiness literally as well.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Are you going to take part in this campaign, Tony?
TONY PERKINS: Which campaign is that?
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, the presidential campaign.
TONY PERKINS: We will be-- what I have heard since the-- the President's announcement on Wednesday, are from-- from pastors across the nation, African-American pastors, white pastors, who were sitting on the sidelines because they weren't sure about Mitt Romney. I think that Barack Obama has helped fit that missing piece of intensity that Mitt Romney's going to need. I-- I don't endorse candidates, won't be endorsing a candidate, but certainly will be working to advance those issues that families across this country care about.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Ted Olson, are you going to take part in this campaign? Because I know sometimes you-- you're-- you're active and sometimes you're not. Is anybody from the Romney campaign asked you to help out?
TED OLSON: No, they haven't so far. And, Bob, maybe it will be necessary for me to participate in the campaign if we have a real close election like we had in 2000. And I can be-- my skills as a lawyer can be brought to play. But, otherwise, I'll wait and see if anyone asks.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And of course what you're talking about is you argued in the Bush v. Gore you argued for the President. And David Boies, who joins you in this argument against the ban on gay marriage in California, joined you in that, in the-- in the-- in that election controversy. Of course he was on-- on the opposite side.
Clay, where do you go from here? Are you going to be out campaigning? Are you going to vote for President Obama this time?
CLAY AIKEN: I voted for President Obama last time. I'm sure-- I'm just isn't it-- I think-- I think all gay men and women are probably more energized to vote for President Obama now. And-- and so I'll definitely be-- I'll definitely be helping how I can.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And do you think people on the other side, Tony Perkins, are also energized by this?
TONY PERKINS: I-- I think it does draw a very clear line of distinction on a very important issue. Again, this is-- the reason I think we see the abortion issue and this issue is as strong parallels is because of the-- the fact that runs counter to nature to natural law, which is what our-- our-- our root-- our rights are bounded-- founded and in-- in the Declaration of Independence. So based on that natural law, the reason will get us there, re-- people have a hard time finding a reasonable approach to same-sex marriage.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right.
Well, I want to thank all of you for joining us this morning. I'll be back in a minute with some thoughts about moms on Mother's Day.
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BOB SCHIEFFER: I remember when my mother died. A friend said it takes a long time before you stop thinking of your mother every day. My mother died decades ago and I'm still waiting for that day. Somehow, some way, not a day passes that I don't think of her at least once, most days four or five times. She was a child of The Depression, who was widowed at an early age, but she devoted her life to seeing that her three children got what had been denied her, a college education. We all graduated. We were afraid not to. Yes, she loved us, but she was a tough customer, who expected and demanded no less, maybe that's why we made sure that all her grandchildren graduated, too. In the autumn of my life, I still hope she knows somehow and I do something that makes me proud. The other part is I still worry that she'll find out about the things I'm not so proud of and come after me. In an election year we talk about so many things that make a nation what it is and ought to be. But I believe the real core of our strength goes much deeper, and it's simpler. It goes to the mothers who teach us what is right and wrong. All the rest of it grows out of that. So happy Mother's Day, moms, yours is still the most important job of all.
Back in a minute.
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BOB SCHIEFFER: Some of you will be leaving us now, but for most of you we'll be back with page two and the latest on the new terror bomb plot with the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.
Plus, a discussion of Mother's Day and women voters and a controversial magazine cover.
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BOB SCHIEFFER: And we're back now with the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Mike Rogers. Mister Chairman, it's being reported in the paper today there were two more U.S. drone strikes in Yemen that may have killed eleven suspected al Qaeda militants. Can you tell us anything about that?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS (Intelligence Committee Chairman/R-Michigan): Well, we-- we can't talk about specific operational details or how it's accomplished, but good news is we didn't find Yemen last week. We have been well on to Yemen for some time, building the capacity so that we could take necessary steps when they present themselves through intelligence gathering to bring folks to justice--
BOB SCHIEFFER (voice overlapping): So-- so you can at least con-- confirm that the strike took place and that U.S. drones were part of it?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: Can't talk about the type of operation, but there may have been air strikes that have been successful.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. I-- I want to ask you about this whole deal about this double agent--
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: Mm-Hm.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --that managed to get this sophisticated new underwear bomb and how this plot was foiled and as I understand it, we now have the bomb. We know where it came from and all of that. But there were these leaks and-- and in the beginning, the administration seemed to come on television and con-- basically confirm all of this, and then a report came up that, wait a minute, this was not a U.S. agent involved, it was a British agent. And the administration seemed to pull back, I mean, what-- what's going on here?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: Well, I wish that-- that commonsense pullback would have happened much sooner, you know, when this information like this gets leaked, Bob, it is incredibly damaging to our intelligence community's ability to take that investigation through all of its natural course. There are somebody getting up in Yemen today trying to figure out what that next generation of bomb looks like that circumvents airport security and gets on an airplane to kill and slaughter innocent people. Any information that is leaked out referenced to that the operational details, who we were or were not working with overseas, is dangerous for us to try to catch the next generation of-- of bombers who-- who are-- we know are existing and running around in Yemen.
BOB SCHIEFFER (voice overlapping): Let me-- do you have any idea who-- who-- what the motivation was for the leak? Was it somebody in the U.S. government that was trying to take credit for this or they wanted the news-- what-- what do you make of this?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: Well, clear, I think there was a little premature chest-thumping in this whole thing and I've ordered a preliminary review. And I will tell you, this has been a damaging leak. We shouldn't underestimate what really happened here.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Mm-Hm.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: When you jeopardize our Foreign Service liaison partners, any of them that may or may not have been involved, or you jeopardize the conclusion of wrapping up all of the people involved, that's dangerous to our national security.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But-- but let me make sure I understand what you just said here. You're saying that somebody in the U.S. government prematurely leaked this to take credit for it, to-- to brag about it.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: Well, you said "brag about it." I said, "chest-thumping," but it clearly raises some serious questions that we're going to have to ask. We do know that the CIA was trying to stop the story. And we know that there was a scheduled White House-- or at least planned press conference on the particular event. And those two desperate positions leaves one to believe that there were some-- someone was at odds about how much they should or shouldn't talk about it. And just the very thought that they were going to go through with that and not put full pressure on to not let this story out before all the operation was going-- I would argue this--
BOB SCHIEFFER (voice overlapping): But what-- what you're saying here, I mean, stories come about, I've always said news gets out because somebody wants it out.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: Hmm.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But what you're saying here is not that this is not something the Associated Press or some other news agency stumbled on. This was something that was deliberately leaked--
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: Well--
BOB SCHIEFFER: --by somebody in the administration and against the wishes of the CIA.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: Well, it's clear that the information was leaked, and that information was presented at some point to the CIA. The CIA at that point tried to put that story back in the can for-- for security reasons. We had-- people's lives were at stake during this particular operation. And that's where it gets a little murky which is why I've ordered the review. This is not anything that should be used for a headline. Our national security should be exempt from any November at any time in any year. That operation shouldn't be dictated its conclusion based on any other agenda other than when it's fully completed for our national security and that's where we have to make sure.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Did-- did the administration play straight with you as the chairman of the Intelligence Committee?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: Well, unfortunately, no. We--
BOB SCHIEFFER (voice overlapping): Really?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: --the press knew, but normally-- let me give you an example, when the UBL Operation was well under way, I became chairman three days later, six months before the operation-- five months. We were brought in briefed, and we were briefed regularly on the all the operational developments right up to the phone call saying, "Hey, we're-- we're going." This was very different. So not only did they not notify Congress, which is, by the way, law, under the National Security Act of 1947. They're obligated to do it. And I argue for reasons this-- we're talking about, there's a reason you do that, so you can have that third-party independent eye on these kinds of operations because they are serious, dangerous and classified, and it was interesting that, even though, the press went to the agency and talked about this particular event, nobody thought at the White House it was important enough to come and live up to the constitutional and statutory rule to notify Congress. It was very concerning. And that's why there's-- there's just a lot of questions that have been raised in this. And, again, no national security operation ever should be used for a headline under any circumstances when you jeopardize the lives of--
BOB SCHIEFFER (voice overlapping): So what are you going to do?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: I'm conducting that preliminary review. We will make a determination either a full-blown committee investigation or we'll refer it to criminal charges to the FBI.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Congressman, I want to thank you very much for--
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: Yeah.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --coming to see us this morning.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS: Hey, thanks, Bob.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Okay. We're going to be back in one minute with our Mother's Day panel.
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BOB SCHIEFFER: And back now with our Mother's Day panel, and I'm happy to say they are all moms. Bay Buchanan has a new book about her adventures as a single mom with three boys. Anita Dunn is a top Democratic strategist, mother of four. Melinda Henneberger writes a column called She, The People for the Washington Post. She has sixteen-year-old twins. And when our own Norah O'Donnell isn't chasing news at the White House, she's chasing after her three children, all of whom are under the age of five, two of whom are twins. I would like to announce that I qualify for this panel as well because I have two daughters, and three granddaughters, two of whom are identical twins. Well, let's talk about the women's vote and-- and where women are today. Both sides are accusing the other in this campaign of waging a war on women, which I expect is a little overdrawn, but this is an election year. So that's the sort of rhetoric we-- we-- we talk about on election days and election campaigns. But is our-- are women being taken for granted this time around, Bay Buchanan, is there a war being waged by one side or the other, you're, of course, a Republican, if I notice that?
BAY BUCHANAN (Author, Bay's Boys/Republican Strategist): Of course, a conservative Republican. There's, you know, the-- the idea that there's a war on women coming from our side certainly is completely manufactured. I mean, no one in their right mind would go after women. And-- and I found it very, very unfortunate, Bob, that there was an attack on for instance, Ann Romney because she was an at-home mom. I find that the last thing we need to do is divide moms into categories, you know, at home or working, single or-- or married. Because women-- moms have so much in common. And-- and we support one another and can help one another and be there. And-- and it's no place to be dividing any mom. So I thought that was enormously unfortunate.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Anita?
ANITA DUNN (Democratic Strategist/Former White House Communications Director): You know, I think the reason that you see such a substantial gender gap in the polls, Bob, is because actually there are two good reasons-- President Obama's record and Mitt Romney's policies. So I think if you look at the Obama record in terms of women, it is really ground-- groundbreaking. He took office. He set up a council on women and children, so that he could look at how the federal government's policies affect women, something that had never been done before. And whether it's the Affordable Care Act, which makes sure that having a baby is no longer a preexisting condition for women that children get covered, no matter what their preexisting conditions. Whether it's been the expansion of the EITC, which helps working women keep more of their money. Whether it is, you know, policies across the board that this President's policies for women have been extraordinary and Mitt Romney has a backward-looking attitude, particularly, when it comes to women.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right.
ANITA DUNN: But I think it will come out.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Okay, I guess I best let Bay respond to that.
BAY BUCHANAN I would love to respond Bob. You know, I think this is where it's going to happen and if there's any been-- any war, whether it's deliberate or not, on women, it's clearly come from the Obama White House. Because, if you look, we all know that more jobs have been lost, more homes have been lost during this administration than since the Great Depression. But maybe many of us don't know that most all of the jobs lost by Americans in these last three years have been lost by women. And if women of all people don't care about their kids, that is what drives us. And what are we seeing in children, fifty-three percent of the kids that we worked so hard to put through college do not have any jobs whatsoever. Women care about this enormously. They need that security to take care of themselves and their own family, especially single moms, something I was. And when you have an economy that's not providing the jobs, either for themselves or for their kids, that is a voting issue that I promise will hit-- will see and remember.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right, let me-- we'll-- we'll come back to this. I want to go to the other side of the table here because I want to-- I want to ask you all as-- as journalists, this issue, this gay marriage thing that-- I mean, the President really-- I think the election moved to another stage when he made that announcement. Melinda, how important is it going to be? Could this be a defining issue or some people say no it's still going to be about the economy and that's it?
MELINDA HENNEBERGER (Washington Post): I think it will still largely be about the economy. This will lose him some votes maybe in North Carolina, which he won in '08. He will have a tougher time given that they just put kind of a triple padlock against same-sex marriage in that state. But I think politically, he'll pick up, too. He'll pick up some enthusiasm from younger voters. But it was really important for him to do that because, in a larger sense, I think it's a win for him. If the Democratic Party and if his campaign is about anything, it's about fairness. And so there was that disconnect and I think it's also important for his credibility, which is huge in any presidential election. People, I think, didn't believe that he did not support same-sex marriage, much as they a lot of people don't believe Mitt Romney doesn't really support it, given that he used to. I think it was important for the President's credibility for him to make that statement. And it works against Mitt Romney in that way for him not to say this time.
BOB SCHIEFFER: So, Norah, walk us back on this. How did this come out at this time?
NORAH O'DONNELL (CBS News Chief White House Correspondent): Well, I think the-- the vice president sort of got ahead of himself, in announcing what was an administration policy, administration aides were very open about expressing their frustration with Vice President Biden for doing that. And then leaked-- which I thought was pretty interesting-- that the Biden went-- Biden went into the Oval Office and apologized. I mean I ask all the time about conversations in the oval office and I'm told, conversations between the President and the vice president are sacrosanct. We don't want to talk about those but they were willing to tell us that the vice president apologized. I think that just sends a message about who's in charge in the White House that's why they wanted to do that. But on the policy issue of same-sex marriage, I don't think it in the end it's going to be determinative in this election. The economy and jobs is still important. Same-sex marriage and the different positions are going to motivate different groups. They're going to get them enthused, that's going to happen any ways we get closer to November. So we will have both sides raise money.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But--
NORAH O'DONNELL: Both sides of turn out people.
BOB SCHIEFFER: You-- you-- you don't subscribe to this conspiracy theory that came about shortly after this when people were saying oh, this was all part of the plot that the vice president did this, it was all part of a scripted thing that was going to happen?
NORAH O'DONNELL: Well, Anita is a communications specialist, but I think most people would, if the White House were trying to leak something successfully they would not hand it off to Joe Biden to do that with all due respect to the vice president. So I think this was just a natural-- he was asked a question and-- and he-- he put forward what was-- and, look, President Obama was pretty much the last Democrat in this country to have not endorsed same-sex marriage. So he had to do this before the debates and the conventions, and I think they also kind of looked at the landscape and said let's do this early on so we can focus on the economy.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Was he, in fact, planning to do this?
ANITA DUNN: You know I'm not going to speak to the President's timing. He spoke to that that himself. But what is important here, and I think the previous panel talked about it, this is clearly something he believes, and he feels very strongly about. And any elected official's going to do better when they're talking from their heart, and I think it's one of the reasons why you had a very strong reaction to it this week. It's clearly a matter of principle for him. It may help him politically; it may not help him politically. But it's something he believes in. I want just a-- a second to go back to something they said earlier though and also I want to say happy Mother's Day to all the women on set here. You know the month that the President took office, this economy shed seven hundred and fifty thousand jobs, including two hundred sixty-six thousand women who lost their jobs in one month. And over the past-- since the stimulus has had a chance to take effect, 4.2 million private sector jobs have been created in this country, including millions for women. But the reality of this, Bob, is that the way that we're going to create the jobs that Bay and I both agree or what women want, what everybody wants in this country, we want our kids to have good jobs. The way we're going to do that is by building an economy that lasts, that has a foundation that lasts, that isn't bubble to bubble. And I think that that's really the issue in this presidential election. And we all agree, jobs are critical thing for moms, particularly because now the majority of moms--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Okay.
ANITA DUNN: --are working.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Okay. Let me get back to what we were talking about here, at the beginning though. Is this issue going to hurt Barack Obama?
BAY BUCHANAN (Republican Strategist): Gay marriage thing?
BOB SCHIEFFER: Yes.
BAY BUCHANAN: Well it-- it-- first of all, I agree that no question the major issue is going to be the President's record. He just aren't going to get away from that, it's economy but this is key at this time because what he has allowed us-- we are pulling together that Republican Party. It has intensified their support, the party is going to be unified going into that convention as never before. And, number two, they-- they have trouble. We-- we now have Mitt Romney, who's always been opposed to gay marriage, I might add. But that is where America is. You have thirty-two states out there who have banned it. They have never won on the ballot and-- and-- and so what happens in North Carolina now? This is great in Iowa, in several states. But thirty-two of them are with us. I think that it's no question if this was good politics for Barack Obama he'd have done it a long time ago. He wouldn't have been dragged kicking and screaming--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me-- I-- I just want to ask you all about something because this is what everybody is talking about. And this is this cover of TIME Magazine. Let's just put it up here on the screen.
BAY BUCHANAN: Oh, my gosh. Do you have to?
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, it turns out I don't have it so. There it is, there it is, right there. You can see it.
BAY BUCHANAN: It's child pornography.
BOB SCHIEFFER: What is this all about?
MELINDA HENNEBERGER: It's not a Mother's Day gift to most of us to have another message that says you're not mom enough if you don't look like this terrific-looking woman and the story is not even about--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, the kid loves like you said-- well he's not a teenager but--
BAY BUCHANAN: Exactly.
MELINDA HENNEBERGER: And the--
BAY BUCHANAN: Exactly.
MELINDA HENNEBERGER: And the story's not even about breast feeding.
BAY BUCHANAN: Mm-Hm.
MELINDA HENNEBERGER: It's about a seventy-two-year-old doctor, and I'm sure they were right that this woman looks far better than he. But the story is about this doctor who has many more views on how to be the right kind of mom versus the wrong kind of mom, and-- and I-- I think the timing of it was odd.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Norah.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Yeah, I think it's a provocative cover meant to sell magazines and generate a discussion. But it also generates a discussion around women and mothers who are the majority of this workforce, and in fact, seventy percent of women with children under eighteen are in the workforce.
MELINDA HENNEBERGER: Mm-Hm.
NORAH O'DONNELL: We are consumers. We're voters. We're journalists and so we're a powerful force, and I think that's why this really revs up and gets a lot of discussion going, especially on Mother's Day.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Anita.
ANITA DUNN: Exactly. You know, Bay said earlier we shouldn't pit moms against moms, I couldn't agree more. And any time you get an "are you mom enough cover?" That's exactly where it seems to be going. You know, and what Norah said is absolutely right. I mean sixty-five percent of the single moms in this country work. Seventy percent of moms work overall. We need to hang together. I mean everyone's got a job, let's face it because as a mom, I think we can all agree being a mother is the most challenging job in the world. Some-- when you have to add through choice and necessity and out of them home job as well, it's even more challenging, right. But at the end of the day, you know, something like this it's going to sell magazines. But the discussion about moms should never pit moms against another because every mom's got a role model.
BAY BUCHANAN: This-- this-- they went too far on this cover. It is disgusting. And-- and I consider it child pornography to even suggest this could-- this child that looks so old, five or six, to be in that kind of a position on a cover.
But-- and-- and-- and, also, what does it suggest? How long should we nurse our babies or should we nurse our babies or-- or what is it best? This is nonsense. This is for women to decide. We don't need anyone on the outside telling us what's best in our family to do because we all are different and so are our children. So I just think it-- it-- it's an outrage that they even suggest this kind of cover or the-- the headline to it.
BOB SCHIEFFER: What's the state of women today? You know, when I came to work at CBS News in this bureau, there was one producer that was a woman, one woman that was a correspondent, one woman that worked on the desk. And when one of those three left, they replaced her with a woman. Now, I would say-- what would you say, Norah, more than half the people in this bureau are women, the TCU in our journalism school, seventy percent of the students there going into journalism are women. How would you say women's chances are right now, Bay Buchanan? Is-- is there equality?
BAY BUCHANAN: There is. There's-- the opportunities are unlimited, both through the universities as well as business and professional. And-- and-- and I think what's key for women, there's too-- often too much talk about-- look to see how you're treated and what you can do and you better not do that because so many people will say that's beneath you and they're just asking you to get coffee because you're a woman. It's so much nonsense. I think-- I think the message to young women today is, do whatever you can, learn, be part of the team, be willing.
NORAH O'DONNELL: I would just strongly disagree with that. I just think that women have had, for the past-- past thirty years, equal opportunity in college. We now have more women who are getting medical degrees, PhDs, than men. But you had for the first time in the last election the number of women in Congress decrease. There is a glass ceiling in politics. We only have seventeen percent of women in the House and the Senate. And so while women are the driving force in the economy in terms of consumer decisions, they're not represented in politics or in the White House or in the halls of Congress--
BAY BUCHANAN: But-- but they have a choice.
NORAH O'DONNELL: --and that affects decisions.
BAY BUCHANAN: They can run or not run--
MELINDA HENNEBERGER: And not-- and we're not (INDISTINCT).
BAY BUCHANAN: --and we choose not to run because women in politics have an equal opportunity to win. That is time and again in effect.
NORAH O'DONNELL: That is absolutely true.
BAY BUCHANAN: They have an edge to men, often, because they're more so trusted. And so it's-- they choose not to run because of their own personal lives, their commitment to family or-- or whatever small business they might have. So it's ridiculous to say we have to have equal, equal everywhere it is.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And on that note, I want to say happy Mother's Day.
BAY BUCHANAN: Thank you.
BOB SCHIEFFER: We'll be back with our FACE THE NATION Flashback. But first, a look at some of the big issues of the week.
JON STEWART: Jason, you're at the fund-raiser at George Clooney's house. What's been the Hollywood community's reaction to the President's big announcement? Has it been positive?
JASON JONES: Has that-- has it been positive? Has it been positive? President Obama is at a giant Hollywood party the night after he came out for gay marriage. This is like going to Israel after you kill Hitler.
CRAIG FERGUSON: Mitt Romney is the-- well, as it turns out he bullied a classmate back in high school apparently he pinned the guy down and cut his hair. I'm like oh, come on, it's just a harmless prank. What's the big deal? Do we have a picture of the haircut that Mitt gave him? Oh, that is quite bad.
JIMMY FALLON: It's getting a lot of attention, TIME Magazine for its new cover which shows a woman breast-feeding her three-year-old son. The issue is expected to make millions of dollars, and that's-- that's just for the kid's therapist. It's-- maybe just to cover that.
JIMMY KIMMEL: As you might imagine, many people were shocked by the fact that that was the cover of a magazine. If you were shocked by that, by the way, you do not want to see what they have planned for Father's Day. It's--
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: Finally on this Mother's Day, in 1956, there was another president running for reelection, Dwight Eisenhower was being challenged by Democrat Adlai Stevenson, and it was also a big year for this broadcast which was celebrating its second anniversary and welcoming the first of many women to appear here. That's our FACE THE NATION Flashback.
WALTER CRONKITE: FACE THE NATION.
ANNA ELEANOR ROOSEVELT: I personally feel--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Eleanor Roosevelt, FDR's widow, squared off against Maine's Republican Senator, Margaret Chase Smith, over the Middle East, and it was quite a set-to.
MAN: Mrs. Roosevelt.
ANNA ELEANOR ROOSEVELT: Well, I don't see how anyone can have confidence in either President Eisenhower or Secretary de Lassus's policy. Now as a man and as a general, I respect him. He did a fine work. But the policies that have brought us into a position where we are, as far as the Near East goes, standing together with the dictator of Egypt, and the communist Soviet, it's an odd situation to find the United States in.
MARGARET CHASE SMITH: Mrs. Roosevelt.
ANNA ELEANOR ROOSEVELT: Yeah, sure.
MARGARET CHASE SMITH: May I interrupt right there. I wonder why you say we are standing with the Kremlin and with Egypt in the matter we--
ANNA ELEANOR ROOSEVELT: Because there's no one else in the U.N. with us.
MARGARET CHASE SMITH: Our policy is against aggression because we're aggression and other nations are aggression it doesn't mean--
ANNA ELEANOR ROOSEVELT: Whenever--
MARGARET CHASE SMITH: --we are standing with those nations. We aren't standing with the Kremlin, certainly on the aggression in Hungary.
ANNA ELEANOR ROOSEVELT: But, no. But there wouldn't have been an aggression in Hungary, if we haven't encouraged them in the Near East.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And so it went. The argument wasn't settled there nor was the trouble in the Middle East. Our FACE THE NATION Flashback. And the best part was they actually answered the questions. An example not always followed by their male or female successors.
We'll be back in a minute.
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BOB SCHIEFFER: And thanks for watching FACE THE NATION. See you next week and happy Mother's Day.