"Face the Nation" transcript: March 25, 2012
Below is a rush transcript of "Face the Nation" on March 25, 2012, hosted by CBS News chief White House correspondent Norah O'Donnell. The guests are Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum, Republican Rep. Paul Ryan, and Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Today on FACE THE NATION, Rick Santorum has a big win in Louisiana but can he catch Mitt Romney in the delegate count?
RICK SANTORUM (Republican Presidential Candidate): Mitt Romney might drop out. I'm not suggesting for the press, I'm not suggesting he drop out, but if he wants to, I'll certainly accept his resignation. You know, after you've outspent your opponent about fifty to one and you still can't put the race away, at some point you might want to say, well, you know, maybe I can't win after all.
NORAH O'DONNELL: With another win in the Deep South yesterday Rick Santorum campaigns in the next key primary state, Wisconsin. How well does he have to do in the rest of the primaries to be a serious contender for the nomination--we'll ask him.
And there's breaking news overnight as former vice president Dick Cheney undergoes heart transplant surgery. We'll have an update.
And, then we'll take a look at the story that's gripping the nation, the shooting of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed African-American teenager in Florida. Even the President weighed in this week.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon.
NORAH O'DONNELL: There's outrage across the country over the Florida law that allowed the shooter to go free. Does the "Stand Your Ground" law go too far?
House Republican chairman Paul Ryan will join us to discuss his proposal to overhaul Medicare and Medicaid.
And then we'll get the Democratic perspective from New York Senator Chuck Schumer. It's all ahead because this is FACE THE NATION.
ANNOUNCER: From CBS News in Washington FACE THE NATION, substituting for Bob Schieffer CBS News Chief White House Correspondent Norah O'Donnell.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Good morning again. And welcome to FACE THE NATION.
Vice President Dick Cheney remains hospitalized in the intensive care unit of a Washington area hospital after undergoing successful heart transplant surgery yesterday. Cheney suffered from congestive heart failure and has had five heart attacks since the age of thirty-seven. He's been waiting for a heart since his last heart attack. The former vice president is seventy-one years old. And there's no word yet about when he will be released.
We turn now to our other top story, Campaign 2012. Rick Santorum had a big win in the state of Louisiana yesterday, picking up forty-nine percent of the vote. Mitt Romney finished in a distant second with twenty-seven percent of the vote. Santorum won ten delegates in Louisiana, which brings his delegate count to two hundred and forty-one. He is still about three hundred delegates behind Mitt Romney. And Rick Santorum joins us now from Green Bay, Wisconsin. Senator, good to see you. Thank you so much for joining. Congratulations on your win.
RICK SANTORUM: Well, thank you very much. I just want to thank all the folks in Louisiana. We had a-- we had a wonderful time down there and it was just so reassuring to go down and, you know, even though a-- a lot of folks who are saying this race is over, people in Louisiana said, no-- no, it's not. That they still want to see someone who they can trust, someone who's not running an Etch A Sketch campaign but one that, you know, has their principles written on their heart, not on a-- on an erasable tablet and I think that's what-- that's what helped us deliver the win in-- in Louisiana. And I think we're going to do very well up here in Wisconsin, too.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Well, Senator, let me ask you though. You're going to need to win about seventy percent of the remaining delegates in those future primary contests. What credible path do you have to the nomination given that?
RICK SANTORUM: Well, first of, I don't agree with the delegate math that the Romney campaign is putting out there. For example, Florida and-- and Arizona, they have it as a winner-or-take all state. And it's-- they're not winner-take-all. We-- we saw an-- an article written by the head of the Rules Committee on the RNC, one of the guys on the Rules Committee of the RNC and-- and before April 1st, no state can be a winner-take-all. So, you're looking at, you know, probably fifty or more delegates that Governor Romney has-- is going to be taken away from-- it is going to be proportioned between me and mostly congressman Gingrich and-- a-- a lot of caucus states, again, the numbers are wrong. I mean, Iowa is a good example. They're twenty-eight delegates. We expect to get the vast majority of them probably up to twenty delegates. We don't think Governor Romney will get more than one or two. Yet they're divided almost equally right now. So, there's a lot of bad math there that doesn't reflect the reality of--
NORAH O'DONNELL (voice overlapping): All right.
RICK SANTORUM: --what's going on, on the ground. And so, I-- I think-- I think we're in much, much better shape than what the numbers that are out there suggest.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Let me ask you about something that a Romney spokesman said about your victory last night. They said, quote, "Rick Santorum is like a football team celebrating a field goal when they are losing by seven touchdowns with less than a minute left in the game. His attempts to distract from his listless campaign and the conservative backlash caused by his suggestion that keeping President Obama would be better than electing a Republican are becoming sadder and more pathetic by the day." What do you have to say to that? I mean, sadder and more pathetic?
RICK SANTORUM: Oh, that's-- well, you know, that's just a desperate campaign that has no message. You know, I've-- I've said from the very beginning, I've said in every interview that's I've ever been asked. I'm-- look, I'm going to support whoever the Republican nominee is. And I'm-- I'm running this campaign because I think Barack Obama's re-election would-- would be the end of freedom as we know it here in America. You know, we're-- we're going to support whoever it is. But we want someone who can win, someone who can go up against Barack Obama and actually draw contrast on the big issues of the day like health care and on energy. Well, Governor Romney has just been dead wrong on those issues for years and years and years. And-- and it would be probably the worst candidate for us to nominate to-- to go after Barack Obama on-- on gas prices and on-- on government takeover of health care. Heck, he was-- he created the blueprint for the government takeover of health care that President Obama followed. That's what the people in Louisiana see. And I think that's what the people of Wisconsin are going to see. They're-- they're looking for someone who's going to win the election because they-- they have better ideas not because they've been able to pound their opponent into the ground with overwhelming negative ads. Governor Romney is not going to be able to pound Barack Obama into the ground by outspending them twenty to one. We're going to have someone who has can-- who can beat him on the issues who can connect with voters. And that's why we won Louisiana last night. I think that's why we're going to do well here in Wisconsin.
NORAH O'DONNELL: But, Senator you did get in a bit of hot water by suggesting it might be better to keep Obama than elect Mitt Romney.
RICK SANTORUM: No.
NORAH O'DONNELL: So-- so to be clear let's just play for our viewers--
RICK SANTORUM (overlapping): I did.
NORAH O'DONNELL: --exactly what you said in San Antonio--
RICK SANTORUM (overlapping): Sure.
NORAH O'DONNELL: --let's listen.
RICK SANTORUM: You win by giving people the choice. You win by giving people the opportunity to see a different vision for our country, not someone who is just going to be a little different than the person in there. If they're going to be a little different we may as well stay with what we have instead of taking a risk of what may be the Etch-A-Sketch candidate for the future.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Well, what did you mean when you said stay with what we have? What we have now is President Obama.
RICK SANTORUM: Yeah I said we and I was talking collectively as the voters would-- would decide to stay with what they have not-- not me. Obviously, I'm running for President as I said before. Because I believe Barack Obama must be defeated, period. And-- but I was saying we as in the voters might decide that. And that's-- so I said we need to give them a choice as not someone who is just a little different on the biggest issues of the day. And that to me is-- is as what this race is really all about, is-- is making sure that we have a candidate that can defeat a Democratic incumbent.
You know, there's only one Democratic incumbent that has ever been defeated in the last hundred years in American politics. And that was Jimmy Carter by Ronald Reagan. We have tried before, nominating moderates, someone who can appeal, you know, to-- to-- to, you know, to folks in-- in the big cities on the East Coast and West Coast, but that's not what will win the elections. If you look at a Rasmussen poll was out last-- a couple of weeks ago in the swing states I lead Barack Obama by four points and Governor Romney loses by four points. That's where you have to look at. Not that he's going to do better in New York. Well, we are not going to win New York. But, you know, and him doing, you know, ten points better and still losing New York by twenty points doesn't matter. What matters is that you can win Indiana. That you can win Ohio, that you can win Pennsylvania and-- and North Carolina and-- and Wisconsin and-- and those are the States--
NORAH O'DONNELL (voice overlapping): Well, let me--
RICK SANTORUM: --that we-- we do and are doing very well in.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Let me ask you quickly then about Wisconsin. Do you have to win Wisconsin to change the momentum in this race?
RICK SANTORUM: We just, you know, did, laid on a pretty good one in Louisiana. And, you know, it's a primary state not a caucus, is not one you can say, oh, it's just a few people voting. It was a primary state. So there was a broad turnout down there. And-- and, you know, we're going to come here to Wisconsin, you know, we're trailing in most-- in the most recent polls right now. We're being outspent about sixty to one here in Wisconsin. But, you know what, the reaction I got yesterday in traveling around in Bellevue and in Sheboygan and up here in-- in Green Bay was, you know, great outpouring of support.
You know what, yesterday, I don't know if you saw this but actually it was bowling in Sheboygan yesterday with-- with a bunch of folks at a-- at a tournament. And throw-- throw three strikes in a row, that's a-- that's a turkey that tells you that you've got someone here who can relate to the voters in Wisconsin just like those of us in western Pennsylvania who grew up in the bowling lanes.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Okay, there you go. Let's move on to a very serious subject. And, of course that is the national uproar that is going on after the death of that seventeen-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida. The President made a very personal statement about this. Let's listen.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. My main message is-- is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son he would look like Trayvon.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Senator, the President did not use the word race, but do you think race played a role here?
RICK SANTORUM: Well, I mean, I obviously I'm not privy to what's going on in someone's mind. Obviously in my opinion someone who had a very sick mind who would-- who would pursue someone like this. This is clearly a heinous act. And, you know, there are a lot of people who have a lot of distorted views of reality. And, it's-- it's a tragic, tragic case. And my heart goes out to the parents, too. I can't imagine what they're suffering losing their son in-- in such a horrific way. All I would say is that whatever the motive is, it was a malicious one and a very, very tragic one.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Well, Newt Gingrich said that what the President said in a sense is disgraceful because it is not a question of who that man looked like. Any young man of any ethnic background should be safe. Was Newt Gingrich wrong to make those comments?
RICK SANTORUM: Well, all I can say is that, you know, again, there are a lot of people who have very-- very perverted views of reality and-- and obviously have, as we see, people who-- who do horrible things for seemingly senseless reasons. And I-- I think it's hard to generalize from one heinous act something that is, you know, try to-- try to make a bigger point out of it. And I think that's probably what Newt was getting at. And I would just say to the President and to everybody that, you know, we need to focus on being there to be supportive and-- and, for the family that's going through this tragedy.
NORAH O'DONNELL: All right. Senator Rick Santorum, thank you for joining us.
And we're going to turn now to one of the top Republicans on Capitol Hill, House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan. Congressman, thank you for joining us. You just released a budget. And let's take a quick look at it. You called for 5.3 trillion dollars in spending cuts, two trillion dollars in tax cuts. And you would reduce the top bracket to twenty-five percent. Are you asking everyone to sacrifice in this budget?
REPUBLICAN PAUL RYAN (House Budget Committee Chairman/R-Wisconsin): Well, first of all, yes, we're putting the budget on a path of balance and to pay the debt off. We want to avoid a debt crisis. The President's budget brings us closer to a debt crisis and we're not proposing tax cuts. We're proposing to keep revenues where they are but to clear out all the special interest loopholes which are uniquely enjoyed by higher income earners in exchange for lower rates for everyone. A simpler, flatter, more competitive tax system to crate jobs and economic growth and bring at least as much revenue into the government as we are bringing now but in a fairer way so everybody pays the same tax rate when they make the same amount of money instead of picking winners and losers in Washington which are the kind of tax code that the President is supporting.
NORAH O'DONNELL: But the current the tax rate for the wealthiest Americans is thirty-five percent, you would reduce it to twenty-five percent. And the White House says that under your plan, you would give millionaires in this country a hundred and fifty thousand dollar tax cut.
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: Those numbers are obviously not credible. But the point I would say is eight out of ten of our businesses in America file their taxes as individuals. The President says their top tax rate in January should go to 44.8 percent effectively. Here's the problem. All of our competitors overseas are lowering tax rates on their businesses. Canada just went to fifteen. And President Obama is saying the tax code that individual small businesses pay goes up to forty-five. We will lose jobs if we go down that path. We're saying get rid of tax shelters, the interest group loopholes and lower everybody's tax rates. You'll get more of their income subject to taxation but at a simpler, fairer system. There is a bipartisan consensus that this is the best way to go for jobs and the economy. Unfortunately, the President's proposing the opposite--higher tax rates and more loopholes, we think that's wrong.
NORAH O'DONNELL: You also include changes to Medicare and cuts in Medicaid a hundred-- eight hundred and ten billion dollars in cuts to Medicaid. How can you guarantee people that you're not giving tax cuts to the wealthiest and taking away aid to the poor?
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: Because we want economic growth and job creation. And the tax code is stifling job creation. And what we propose in Medicaid is let the governors and the states, give them the flexibility to customize Medicaid to meet the unique needs of their populations. In Wisconsin our Medicaid population and problems are different than they are in New York. But they had the same rules--
NORAH O'DONNELL: But you don't deny that you're cutting eight hundred and ten billion dollars from Medicaid to the poor--
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: No, actually-- we --eight hundred and ten billion in savings. We still grow Medicaid each and every year under our formula. But we're saying block grant to the states so they can decide how best to achieve these savings. On Medicare, the President's health care law caps Medicare spending but he puts a board of fifteen unlike the bureaucrats in charge of cutting Medicare in ways that deny care to current seniors. We say get rid of the board and put fifty million seniors in charge of their own Medicare instead of having these fifteen bureaucrats make those decisions.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Last year you proposed a budget very similar to this it was considered political suicide. There was an independent organization that ran an ad of you pushing--
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: Right.
NORAH O'DONNELL: --a grandmother off the cliff. Why would you do that again this year, propose a similar budget? The Democrats are going to take this budget and try and wrap it around the Republican Party's neck for this election.
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: Because we believe we have a moral and legal obligation to stop this debt crisis from happening. We are the most predictable economic crisis. A debt crisis coming in the country and to ignore it is wrong. We think we owe the country solutions. We think we owe the country a path to prosperity to get the American idea back, get people back to work and get this debt under control. The President is making it worse and the Senate hasn't passed a budget for a thousand days. They are not even trying to solve this problem.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Mm-Hm.
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: So even though we're going to get all these ads, we still think we have an obligation to put solutions on the table.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Mitt Romney says he supports your plan. Are you convinced he is a fiscal conservative?
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: Absolutely.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Are you convinced if he were President that he would enact your budget?
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: Yeah, I think-- I'm-- I'm not expecting everybody to enact every little piece of this. But, yes, he and the other candidates running for President have embraced these kinds of reforms because we know it's the best way to save and strengthen the Medicare guarantee, save Medicaid--
NORAH O'DONNELL: So if Mitt Romney became President of the United States, you're convinced he would follow through with a lot of--
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: Yes.
NORAH O'DONNELL: --the reductions that you make--
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: Yes.
NORAH O'DONNELL: --in this-- in this plan.
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: Mm. Yes.
NORAH O'DONNELL: And you're not concerned that this is going to hurt your party in November?
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: Not at all. Because I think the party-- the country is smarter than this. People in America are ready to be talked to like adults. They don't want to be pandered to like children. And we feel we owe the country a sharp, clear difference, a choice of two futures so they can decide what kind of country we want to be. What kind of people we want to be in the twenty-first century. The President has us on a path of debt and decline. We owe the country an alternative path. And this is the choice that we feel we are obligated to give them. And I think that-- that they're going to make the right choice--
NORAH O'DONNELL: You've--
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: --and we'll save this country from a debt crisis.
NORAH O'DONNELL: You've been mentioned as a rising star in the Republican Party, would you consider a vice presidential nomination to pick--
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: You know it's just something I'm not even considering right now. I'm so focused my job in Congress. If I wanted to be President or vice president so badly, I would have run for President. You know, I don't so I didn't. Let's not underestimate how important Congress is in all of this. And I'm focused on trying to prevent a debt crisis with my job as chairman of the Budget Committee.
NORAH O'DONNELL: But you would consider it if someone ask you--
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: I would consider it but it's not even something in my mind because it's a decision someone else makes at a later time, it's a bridge I haven't-- gotten close to having to cross. So in the meantime I think it's important to do my job and give the country a choice and try and prevent a debt crisis from taking down our economy and destroying the livelihood of our children.
NORAH O'DONNELL: All right. Congressman Paul Ryan, thank you so much for joining us.
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN: Thank you.
NORAH O'DONNELL: And we'll be back in a minute.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
NORAH O'DONNELL: And we're back with the top Senate Democrat, Chuck Schumer joins us from New York.
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER (D-New York): Thank you.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Senator, I want to start with the issue of the Trayvon Martin case. You are a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. A lot has been made of these "Stand Your Ground" cases. Do you think they should be reevaluated, changed?
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: I do. In fact, I'm sending a letter to the Justice Department today to ask them to expand their investigation into the general application of these "Stand Your Ground" laws, whether they actually increase rather than decrease violence and whether they actually prevent law enforcement from prosecuting cases where a real crime has been committed. Let's this "Stand Your Ground" law is a whole new concept in our jurisprudence. It basically says if you fear great physical harm you can shoot. Some people call it shoot first, ask questions later. And in fact, in a survey done by the Orlando Sun in Central Florida that looked at thirteen cases where "Stand Your Ground" was invoked. And in thirteen of those-- in twelve of those cases the person who was shot by the person invoking "Stand Your Ground" didn't even have a weapon on them. So, you know, Norah, I'm a law enforcement Democrat. I have a lot of faith in our police and in our sheriffs. And I don't like a move to vigilantism. Bottom line is had Mister Zimmerman listened to the police when he called 911 and let them handle it, this would have had a much better outcome.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Do you think there will be hearings on Capitol Hill?
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: I hope so. I think that we should examine this law. They're all new. They've been passed very, very quickly. And I think the-- the states who passed them, if they find out the real facts may decide to repeal them.
NORAH O'DONNELL: I want to turn to the future for this country. We just heard from Congressman Paul Ryan, the Republicans have put forward a budget plan. He says he can guarantee that he would not be providing tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans and cutting funding for the poor in terms of the cuts that are to Medicaid. What's your response to that?
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Well, Norah, we call Paul Ryan's budget a smoke and mirrors budget. Anyone can get up there and say I will cut two trillion dollars in taxes. I will cut five trillion dollars in spending. But then when they say where are they going to make it up? He has-- he doesn't say. So it's sort of a smoke and mirrors budget. And, in fact, if you don't raise capital gains and dividends which it's Republican watch words never to raise those, the only way he can make it up is on the backs of the middle class, eliminating or greatly reducing the mortgage deduction, the charitable deduction. The child tax care credit, the health care deductions that employers pay. And it's such a contrast with Democrats.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Right.
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: We on-- we are going to put on the floor on tax day a proposal by Sheldon Whitehouse that would enact the so-called Buffett Rule. It says those at the top pay thirty percent regardless of their deductions. The rule is very simple. You should, if you're very wealthy, God bless you, you made a lot of money. We love you in America but let's be fair. You should pay more than your secretary. And that will be on the floor April 15th tax day.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Interesting that you're going to put that up for a vote in Congress. Let me just turn to one other section. The Ryan plan would repeal the Affordable Care Act. On Monday the Supreme Court is begin-- will begin debating the legality of that. Do you think this is going to be a major issue in this presidential campaign?
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Well, I'll tell you something. If Mitt Romney is the nominee, the issue will be virtually taken off the table. Let's remember not only did he propose it in Massachusetts but in 2009 when the health care debate was raging he wrote an op-ed in USA Today and called on the President to adopt it and called on the Congress to adopt it. And the President said that our plan is modeled on the Massachusetts plan. So if Mitt Romney is the nominee and he tries to bring up health care, it's not going to work, you know, he can run but you can't hide. And it will just increase the view that he's the Etch A Sketch President.
NORAH O'DONNELL: All right, Senator Schumer, thank you for joining us. We appreciate it.
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Thank you, Norah.
NORAH O'DONNELL: And Bob is on vacation this week, but before he left he taped a very special message for FACE THE NATION viewers. And we'll have that when we come back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: I was looking through some old FACE THE NATION broadcasts the other day. And can you guess what with one thing was that I said more than any other over the years? Well, it was a variation of this.
Mister Vice President, we have to stop it right there. Thank you so much for being with us this morning.
VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Thank you.
BOB SCHIEFFER: We have to stop there. Sorry, Senator Reid, I had another question for you, but just no time.
All right.
Governor, we have to leave it there, thank you very much for joining us this morning.
PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Thanks, Bob.
BOB SCHIEFFER: See you down the line.
PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Yes, Sir.
MAN #1: If she did, so what? There would be nothing wrong with it?
MAN #2: But the fact is--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Our time is up. I'm sorry.
We'll be back in a minute.
All right, we have to leave it there, Mister Vice President. Thank you so much for joining us.
VICE PRESIDENT AL GORE: Thank you, Bob.
Time's up, Senator.
CHUCK SCHUMER: I would say to the American people, we know we need change. Democrats, independents, Republicans say we need change. When it comes to paying for college, when it pays for-- when it comes to health care--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Ding.
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: --when it comes to energy--
WOMAN: That's it.
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: --give us a chance. We will--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Time's up.
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: --present the change you need, not a rubber stamp.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right, thanks to both of you.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: You know, that-- that's a bonus.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Mister President, our time is up. Thank you so much.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Thank you so much. Appreciate it, Bob.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, all that is changing. Next Sunday, FACE THE NATION expands to one full hour. We'll try to make the best possible use of it. And as always, we hope you'll join us. FACE THE NATION for one hour starting next Sunday. And, Norah will be back in a moment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
NORAH O'DONNELL: Well, as Bob would say that's all the time we have for today. And Bob will be back next week with a full hour of FACE THE NATION. I'm Norah O'Donnell, thanks for watching.
ANNOUNCER: This broadcast was produced by CBS News which is solely responsible for the selection of today's guests and topics. It originated in Washington, DC.