"Face the Nation" transcript: January 1, 2012
Below is a rush transcript of "Face the Nation" on January 1, 2012, hosted by CBS News chief Washington correspondent and "Face the Nation" anchor Bob Schieffer. The guests are: Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., (Ron Paul Supporter); Former Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., (Newt Gingrich supporter); Former Sen. Jim Talent, R-Mo. (Mitt Romney supporter); David Yepsen, Paul Simon Public Policy Institute; Mike Allen, Politico chief White House correspondent; Norah O'Donnell, CBS News chief White House correspondent; and John Dickerson, CBS News political director.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Today on FACE THE NATION, we knew you real political junkies would be up to join us this morning. And we're watching what you're watching.
GOVERNOR CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-New Jersey): Listen, America-- America is watching Iowa.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And Iowans are watching ads, negative ads.
NEWT GINGRICH (Republican Presidential Candidate; Political Ad): I made a mistake.
I've made mistakes at times.
MAN (political ad): Serial hypocrites and flip floppers.
WOMAN (political ad): Newt Gingrich's baggage. Newt has more baggage than the airlines.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Nearly half of all the negative ads have been dumped on Newt Gingrich. Remember when he was leading the polls? Not anymore.
NEWT GINGRICH: We're learning a lot about what our opponents will do. They are-- they are nastier and more dishonest than I expected.
BOB SCHIEFFER: The new front-runner is the old front-runner in the national polls: Mitt Romney. And he's sounding more and more like a nominee.
MITT ROMNEY (Republican Presidential Candidate): We will win Iowa and take back the White House with the support of this great state.
BOB SCHIEFFER: In the new Des Moines Register poll Ron Paul is within the margin of error for first and Rick Santorum is also moving up.
RICK SANTORUM (Republican Presidential Candidate): Seven days ago I was being asked the question, are you-- are you thinking about quitting?
BOB SCHIEFFER: But can any of them beat Barack Obama? We'll hear from Ron Paul's son, Senator Rand Paul; Gingrich supporter and former congressman JC Watts; and Romney surrogate and former Missouri Senator Jim Talent. Then we'll get analysis from the legendary Iowa political reporter David Yepsen, Politico's Mike Allen; and our own Norah O'Donnell and John Dickerson.
Plus, all the candidates' New Year's resolutions.
This is FACE THE NATION.
ANNOUNCER: From CBS News in Washington, FACE THE NATION with Bob Schieffer.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And good morning again. Happy New Year. Well, the Des Moines Register is out today with a new poll as we're just hours away now from the Iowa caucuses in the top spot Mitt Romney is at twenty-four percent followed closely behind by Congressman Ron Paul at twenty-two and now former Senator Rick Santorum at fifteen. And he is closing fast. Rounding out the rest of the field, Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann, and John Huntsman.
This morning we are joined by supporters from three of the top candidates: Senator Rand Paul, the son of Ron Paul, he's in Bowling Green, Kentucky; Romney supporter, former Senator Jim Talent In St. Louis; and former congressman J.C. Watts who is the surrogate for Newt Gingrich. He's in Oklahoma City.
Let's go first to Senator Paul. Senator Paul, your dad obviously has a shot at winning Iowa now. But the pollsters out there seem to think that Rick Santorum has-- has really caught the momentum. And he's been closing fast here in the last two days. They say if you measure just the last two days he's actually in second place. What do you think happened? I-- I thought your dad was the darling of the Evangelical Christian vote, which is such a big vote out there and-- and a lot of conservatives. What-- what's happening?
SENATOR RAND PAUL (R-Kentucky, Ron Paul Supporter): Well, I think if you look at it, we've had several front-runners. We've had several people surge to the top. And I think this is the best time to be surging to the top. And Ron Paul has surged probably as much as anyone in the last two to three weeks and has been the front-runner or near being the front-runner in Iowa. He's closing the gap in New Hampshire. So I think he's surging at precisely the right time.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, if Rick Santorum does wind up either winning out there or running ahead of your dad, will he be the sort of anybody but Romney candidate going into New Hampshire?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Well, I think he has a lot of things to overcome. I mean he was in his last election defeated by over twenty points. He was a big supporter of Arlen Specter against Pat Toomey. He's really been a big government type of moderate. And a lot of people don't know that because he hasn't surged to the top yet. So, he hasn't had much scrutiny. When he has the scrutiny, I think he's going to have some of the same problems that some of the other fair-weather conservatives have had.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you this. I mean your father is a very polite and decent man. He's-- he's very nice to deal with. Everybody seems to like him. But I don't know a single impartial observer who thinks that he could wind up getting the nomination, let alone winning in a general election. Does he think he could win?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Well, you know, the interesting thing is when people say that, when you actually look at the numbers and the polls, who's scoring the best with independents and Democrats among Republicans? Ron Paul's the only one getting significant independent vote and Democrat vote. And every year, I watched the elections and people say, you need independent vote to win the election. You can't win with just Republicans. So I actually see Ron Paul as the one Republican who could reach across the boundaries of party, collect a lot of people who don't vote normally and really energize the party. Look at the crowds. He says his crowds are growing by the hundreds. And then you interview someone like Santorum who's got five people and they're telling him to be quiet. They're watching a football game. So I mean Ron Paul is having these big huge crowds in Iowa and really exciting a lot of young people and new people. So I think there is a lot of momentum. And I think he could win by bringing in the independents.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But you would have to concede he is far beyond the mainstream in the Republican Party in his--
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Right.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Is he even a Republican or is he--
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Look--
BOB SCHIEFFER: --a Libertarian?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: I would say he's different in the sense that he believes with foreign policy, we should only go to war if Congress declares war. And because he believes that way, he has a reluctance to go to war. But I think there are a lot of Americans who are tired after ten years. We lost five thousand soldiers or nearly five thousand soldiers in Iraq. The rest of the Republican field is beating the drums and jumping up and down and saying, oh, no, I'll bomb Iran first.
Well, beginning a new war should be something that is done very reluctantly in consultation with Congress. And I think we don't want people who are eager to go to war. And I think many Republicans also understand that. That's why his crowds are growing. But also you're seeing Democrats and independents want someone who is wise, who is not reckless. Someone who will control our nuclear weapons should not be someone who is trigger-happy and wants to start a war every moment.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, let me talk to J.C. Watts because he is and I-- I have to state this, you are one of the few people, Congressman Watts, who-- who served with Newt Gingrich when he was in the Congress, who have been out campaigning for him. I want to ask you about some of what Rand Paul just said. But why is that? Why are we seeing so few who knew Newt Gingrich when he was in the Congress out working for him right now?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.C. WATTS (Newt Gingrich Supporter/R-Oklahoma): Well, you--you-- Bob, you would have to ask them. But I can tell you why I'm supporting Newt Gingrich. Because I think Newt Gingrich has a proven track record of changing Washington and getting results. All the things we're talking about on the national level today, balanced budgets, tax relief, paying down our national debt, entitlement reform. When Newt was speaker, he did those things. We had balanced budgets. We-- the only time we've had balanced budgets in my lifetime. And I'm-- I'm fifty-four. We-- we had entitlement reform with welfare. We-- we paid our four hundred and fifty billion dollars toward our national debt. And-- and I believe, I am-- I am one of the people that believes that Newt Gingrich creates I-- I think, the kind of Republican Party that-- that I want. He recreate-- recreates a Republican Party. He's looking to create a Republican Party not that looks like--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well--
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.C. WATTS: --J.C. Watts and Newt Gingrich but one that looks like heaven. And we're going to have red, yellow, brown, black and white in heaven. And I-- I-- I don't see that in-- in Mitt Romney or Ron Paul or-- or-- or the other candidates that--
BOB SCHIEFFER: What--
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.C. WATTS: --that I paid close attention to.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Why do you think that his campaign now seems to have cratered after-- I mean he suddenly zoomed to the top and he was the front-runner out there in Iowa. And now, he's dropped fifteen or twenty points and he's down there running fourth in the second tier. What-- what happened?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.C. WATTS: Well, Bob, you said it at-- at the-- at the outset you know you've had almost fifty percent of the negative ads in Iowa run against Newt Gingrich, almost nine, ten million dollars. But the fact that he even registered when you-- when -- that he still registers considering the negative ads that he's had run against him, I think shows his stability, shows his strength. I think the polls, I-- I think you'll see that it's still pretty fluid. I've seen Newt-- I've seen polls just in the last forty-eight to seventy-two hours that has him either tied for first or fourth. So-- so it's still pretty fluid. And-- and no one knows what's going to happen on Tuesday. And as the old saying goes, we'll get the real poll next Tuesday night.
BOB SCHIEFFER: I-- I would just have to say I haven't seen that one that shows him tied for first. But you may be right.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.C. WATTS: There I saw one--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Oh.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.C. WATTS: --that was had him--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, let me--
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.C. WATTS: --it was seventeen percent with Romney, Paul and-- and Gingrich, all three at about seventeen percent.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, let me-- let me go Senator Talent. Let's talk about these ads.
FORMER SENATOR JIM TALENT (Mitt Romney Supporter): Mm-Hm.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Governor Romney gets up and says he's against these super PACs. He said we ought to just do away with them, the ones that are running all these ads. And yet, there's the super PAC run by his friends. Obviously, he doesn't have anything. He says, "I-- I obviously don't have anything to do with it because it's against the law." But it's all his people that are running. And they are running these vicious ads. If he wants to get rid of these things, why doesn't he just tell his friends to stop the ones that they're running now? That would be a good example on how to--
FORMER SENATOR JIM TALENT: Well-- right.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --clean this up.
FORMER SENATOR JIM TALENT: The governor believes-- the campaign believes in contrast. And we have contrast. We have Governor Romney's record. This is a trusted leader with vast experience in the private sector--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Yeah, but let me--
FORMER SENATOR JIM TALENT: --who knows how to turn around enterprises.
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): Senator, Senator, let me interrupt.
FORMER SENATOR JIM TALENT: (overlapping): And we-- well, I mean--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Senator, may I just interrupt? We-- we kind of make it--
FORMER SENATOR JIM TALENT (overlapping): Sure. Your show.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --a practice here that we-- we ask people to answer the questions that we ask them. Could you address the question that I just asked you?
FORMER SENATOR JIM TALENT: Well, I mean, look, the governor has said that he doesn't support those-- those PAC ads or he doesn't support the idea of the PACs but he does support the idea of contrasting. And people are going to do what they're going to do. Now, he's-- these ads have been fair contrasts of the record of the various candidates. We have Governor Romney's record, trusted, strong leader with experience in the private sector. The guy who can beat Barack Obama, that's what the polls show. And that's the logic of his candidacy is what he's running on.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, Senator-- Congressman Watts, what-- what would you say in response to that? Do you think that Newt-- I mean do you think that Governor Romney could stop those ads if he wanted to?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.C. WATTS: Well, Bob, he could. But super PACs, they are what they are. And I-- I-- I'm not going to sit here and try to say that if-- if the Gingrich campaign or the Santorum campaign or the Paul, any other candidate had a super PAC, that they wouldn't be doing the same thing. I-- I-- I think that's the reality that we're dealing with in campaigns these days. People buy into negative ads. You-- we see what has happened to Newt Gingrich, Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry. Anybody that's been out front that's been leading the pack-- we-- we've seen the Romney folks go after them pretty-- pretty good. So it is what it is. But again, I think my candidate is still standing. And the fact that he still registers, that he's still getting votes with fifty percent of the negative ads being run against him I think it speaks well--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Yeah, okay.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE J.C. WATTS: --of the stability of Newt Gingrich.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Senator Talent, let me ask you this.
FORMER SENATOR JIM TALENT: Bob, if I could--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Yes. Go ahead.
FORMER SENATOR JIM TALENT: Yeah, if I could say, look, Governor Romney's had a strong consistent support across all segments of the party, really, at all times in this campaign, and it is because of the logic of his candidacy and his record. And that's what's driving these poll numbers in Iowa. That's what's driving not just the Des Moines Register poll but the Des Moines Register endorsement which accepted the logic of a candidacy that said, look, this is the guy who can beat Obama and turn around the federal government. I think that's the underlying rationale for the race.
BOB SCHIEFFER: You know, it's an interesting thing and-- and you're right. He has stayed between twenty and twenty-five percent. But that means seventy-five percent don't particularly like him. Why do you think that is? Why is there such a large segment of the Republican Party that simply does not seem to like Mitt Romney? What's wrong with him?
FORMER SENATOR JIM TALENT: I think-- I-- I agree with what J.C. said before. I think the-- the race is fluid. There's a lot of people who're undecided, and they park in one place or another place. But again see, I would turn that around, Bob. I think this is the candidate in a very heavily fractionalized field who's had the strong support all across the party campaigning in a number of different states. And where he's campaigned the most, he's the strongest which is in New Hampshire. So when people find out more about him, then they decide that they like him. So again, this is the candidate that can beat Obama, turn around the federal government. That's the reason he's running so well.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, we'll find out on-- on caucus night who finally winds up ahead.
We'll be back in just a minute. Thanks to both of you all. But as Andy Rooney might have asked, did you ever wonder what the candidates' New Year's resolutions are?
RON PAUL: My New Year's resolution? Oh, boy. Can I think about this for a second?
MITT ROMNEY: This coming year, I will endeavor to say thank you more often. Appreciation is a-- a-- an underappreciated quality.
RICK PERRY: I resolved to pray more often for our young men and women who are in our combat theaters, that they will come home soon and safe.
JON HUNTSMAN: A little more love and compassion. Yeah. I just hope that this country can show greater compassion toward families who have lost a loved one in the theater of combat.
RICK SANTORUM: I haven't thought about that yet, but I-- I suspect you might guess.
RON PAUL: Make sure that when people come to hear me that I deliver a proper message and do a better job each time I do it.
WOMAN: What's your New Year's resolution?
NEWT GINGRICH: A New Year's re--
CALLISTA GINGRICH: You need to work through this year.
NEWT GINGRICH: It doesn't say, do you have a New Year's resolution?
MICHELE BACHMANN: Since to work very, very hard and win the Iowa caucus and then win the New Hampshire primary and then win the South Carolina primary and then go and win the Florida primary. So my resolution is to win primaries next year. Then become a nominee.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: And welcome back to FACE THE NATION. Chief White House correspondent Norah O'Donnell is here with me in Washington; out in Des Moines in the Law Library at the Iowa state capital, political director John Dickerson who is up early joined by the legendary political reporter David Yepsen, so many years at the Des Moines Register; and Politico's chief White House correspondent Mike Allen. David, how many of these caucuses have you actually written about and-- and covered?
DAVID YEPSEN (Paul Simon Public Policy Institute): Well, all of them since 1976. So more than I sometimes care to remember.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, I was right with you. I-- I haven't seen, in all those years, any of them quite like this one. And we've had-- we've had some weird ones down through the years. What about this one, we're seeing? It just seems every week somebody else is at the top and somebody goes right straight to the bottom.
DAVID YEPSEN: I think one of the big differences and you've already mentioned in the show is the citizens' united decision and all these attack media that's-- that's sloshing around. It is really incredible. And it's had an impact. It-- it explains a lot of this ebb and flow of the race. The candidate jumps out ahead and then he's-- he's hit or she's hit by a wave of this attack television. Rick Santorum is lucky because his surge has started and there may not be time here at the end for a wave of attack media to hit him.
BOB SCHIEFFER: You know, I want to ask--
MIKE ALLEN: Bob, another big---
BOB SCHIEFFER: Yeah, go ahead, Mike.
MIKE ALLEN (Politico): Well, Bob as you've just said another big difference is the Christian conservatives didn't pick one candidate. There's not the coalition that made Mike Huckabee the winner in 2008. If all of them had gotten behind Rick Santorum if he had the homeschoolers and others, he would probably be the favorite. Now he's scrambling it's him and Romney neck and neck.
BOB SCHIEFFER: You know David brought up one thing, Mike; and I want to ask you about it. He-- he talked about these attack ads. The one person that the Romney campaign which has all the money out there and is spending most of the money, they had not attacked Rick Santorum. Some people say that may be by design. They'd really like to see him emerge as the "anybody but Romney" candidate.
MILE ALLEN: Yeah. The Romney campaign feels that he does not have the organization to go as long as they do. They feel like their energy and crowds are going to make them the winner. So even if Santorum wins, like that's still going to give Romney the energy that he needs to go on. So now they're trying to just be measured to not get cocky at this point. Years of work now are on the wind for the Romney campaign.
BOB SCHIEFFER: John bring us up to date here on the horse race. We're not afraid-- we're not ashamed to say we're into the horse race, unlike some people.
JOHN DICKERSON: We--
BOB SCHIEFFER: What--- what's happening here? All of a sudden, at this late moment it looks like that Santorum is-- what's that all about? I hear the Register people saying if they just took the last two days that Santorum would be right at the top of the heap the way he's going.
JOHN DICKERSON: That's right. They average out the-- the number of days that they've been calling around the state. On Tuesday, Santorum just had ten percent. By Friday, he had twenty-two percent. So he was surging right at the end of the poll there and a lot of people think that surge is continuing for him.
Another factor here that you talked about is-- is that everybody gets a surge in this race. But Mitt Romney has a surge protector. He's at twenty-four now. He was at about that twenty-three in June. He has not surged. A lot of what's happening here-- it's two things for Santorum. One, he's worked the state harder than anybody else. Done it the old-fashioned way. But also there is this group of people who are looking for an alternative to Mitt Romney. And right now they've landed on Rick Santorum. The question is, is he like Mike Huckabee? Is he going to grow the voter? There are a whole new bunch of people that are coming to join Rick Santorum. Doesn't seem to be the evidence of that in the poll, the number of Evangelicals is down from last time. So it may be that he's got a surge here at the end but he's not creating a whole new wave of Santorum voters.
DAVID YEPSEN: And, John, these-- Bob, one thing that's worth elaborating on is that point John just made about Evangelicals. The-- the turnout in the polling from-- from Evangelicals is about half of what it was in the-- in the turnout of '08. Now think about that sixty percent of the Republican caucus-goers in 2008 described themselves as born again or Evangelical. This time it's about thirty percent. If we-- why is that? Well, there may be polling error that's always the possibility the-- the-- the Evangelicals have been divided. Their leadership has been divided. So in addition to, we may be following putting too much attention on social conservatives that they're not going to be as big a deal this time as they were in 2008. It's a wild card and we'll have to see on-- on caucus night.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me (Overlapping) let me go to-- let me go to Norah O'Donnell here because, you know, for all the Republican activity, for all the talk about ground games and all that, the candidate who has the most offices out there, the candidate who is spending the most money out there, that's the most organized out there, is right now on vacation out in Hawaii. What is the White House up to right now?
NORAH O'DONNELL (CBS News Chief White House Correspondent): Well, there is no doubt that the spotlight is focused on Iowa and the Republicans, but I think that the Obama 2012 campaign is trying to make the point that they have more campaign offices. They have made more voter-to-voter contact that they have an unprecedented ground game. The President is actually going to address Democrats who are having a caucus too on Tuesday night from videoconference. The reason that matters, Bob, is Iowa is a battleground state--in the general election-- this ultimately is going to be about the general election--and Iowa is a state that went for Gore, it then went for Bush, it then went for Obama. It's a battleground state. And I think the Obama team-- team is trying to make the case that while the Republicans are so busy duking it out, the Obama team has actually set up an unprecedented campaign operation not just in an Iowa but across the entire country and whoever Republican comes out of this eventually Republican nominee is going to have to play catch-up to-- to equal what Obama has done in terms of a ground game.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Mike Allen, give us a little roadmap of where we go from here. Who drops out after Iowa?
MIKE ALLEN: Well, it's very telling that Rick Perry, the Texas governor, is not going to New Hampshire, the next contest, he's jumping ahead. And on Wednesday, he's flying to South Carolina. So it looks like he may try to make his last stand there. Michele Bachmann who amazingly has gone from first four-and-a-half months ago to last in this registered poll is going to also have a lot of pressure to drop out. Santorum doesn't have the organization, but he will keep in and just picking up on Norah's point about the Obama campaign, the Obama campaign loves the Santorum surge for two reasons. One, it bolsters their idea that-- that-- that-- that Mitt Romney is having to struggle for this and then in the weak field, he's trying to keep his head above water. Also, they hope that Santorum surging means that he will be pushed a little bit to the right to close the deal in this very exciting caucus. We're going to set a record on Tuesday night, the last time hundred and nineteen thousand people in 2008, Republicans coming out. They said there could be as many as a hundred and forty thousand this time because of the excitement of all these candidates and because it's nice weather. It's not very Iowaie (sic) here. We came here without overcoats.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Norah--
NORAH O'DONNELL (overlapping): And-- and, Bob, to add to that one area where they think that Santorum has moved Mitt Romney to the right is yesterday on the campaign trail. Mitt Romney said that he would veto the Dream Act. The Dream Act would allow children of illegal immigrants to get citizenship if they graduate from high school. That's something Mike Huckabee supported the Dream Act. Hispanics are going to be a huge force in the 2012 General Election campaign. And Mitt Romney yesterday said he would veto that proposal. That is something that's going to come up in a general election match that will be a-- a big deal in terms of courting the Hispanic vote.
BOB SCHIEFFER: David Yepsen, does Iowa really matter? I know you-- you speak as an Iowan, but it is not exactly a great predictor, especially on the Republican side of who gets the nomination. What should we take away from Iowa, whoever wins?
DAVID YEPSEN (Paul Simon Public Policy Institute): Well, I think you got to-- Iowa is first, that's why it's important. I think you watch in-- in terms of how the race unfolds. Mitt Romney, this is a lot like the 1980 caucus, Bob. You'll remember that. George Herbert Walker Bush, an unknown former U.N. ambassador, kind of a moderate candidate in the race won that-- that caucus because the conservative vote was all chopped up. So one of the things to-- to-- to watch coming out of Iowa is can the conservatives coalesce around one candidate? Rick Perry in South Carolina, Rick Santorum? Who will that be going forward to be the all the-- the alternative to Romney? That's what I would look for--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Yeah.
DAVID YEPSEN: --coming out of Iowa.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But you-- you go into 1980, Ronald Reagan then goes on to win the nomination and then you shift to 1988 and of all people Pat Robertson finishes ahead of George Bush in Iowa that year. And then George Bush goes on to win. I agree with you. It's important because it's first and we find out, we see them all lay it out. Thanks to all of you. We'll see you all out there. I'll be out there this-- this afternoon.
Back in a moment with some final thoughts.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: Finally today, I would like to start the New Year on a happy note, so I always turn first to the obituary page. There's nothing quite so pleasant as being unable to find your name there, and confirming you're beginning another year on the right side of the dirt. Besides, the obits are always about people and the occasional animal who have done good things like that obit the other day about Cheetah, the chimpanzee, and all the Tarzan movies back in the '30s. Debbie Cobb who works at the Florida Animal Sanctuary where Cheetah lived out his last years told the New York Times the old fellow, I like that better than old ape, was eighty years old. The trouble is ape experts say they've never heard of an ape living that long so they are dubious that Cheetah was who he said he was. Of course, he never said anything so we have to take Ms. Cobb's word for it. But she does sound truthful. However, the actress Mia Farrow, whose mother, Maureen O'Sullivan was in the movies with Cheetah said her mom didn't care for Cheetah and that's understandable since he was always biting her. So if this was the real Cheetah, he must have mellowed with age. The woman at the animal sanctuary said he was compassionate, loved finger painting, watching football on TV, and-- and found Christian music relaxing. Still we may never know for sure. All we have are pictures, and as film archivist Eve Gordon told The Times basically all chimps look like George Burns. I love the obits. We'll see you tomorrow from Des Moines where Norah O'Donnell and I will be hosting THE EARLY SHOW. And I'll see you next Sunday from New Hampshire. Happy New Year, everybody.