"Face the Nation" transcript for April 22 with Senator Lieberman and ex-USSS chief Basham
(CBS News) Below is a rush transcript of "Face the Nation" on April 22, 2012, hosted by CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer. Guests include Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., former Secret Service Director Ralph Basham, Sen. Tom Coburn R-Okla., Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., and Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Texas on the April 22nd edition of "Face the Nation." Stephanie Cutter and Eric Fehrnstrom also appeared. Panelists included Tavis Smiley, Cornel West, Major Garrett, Melinda Henneberger, Norah O'Donnell and John Dickerson.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Today on FACE THE NATION, politics, poverty, and ladies of the night.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: If it turns out that some of the allegations that have been made in the press a-- are confirmed, then, of course, I'll be angry.
BOB SCHIEFFER: If that is so, he must be furious because the scandal over sex and the Secret Service has caused people who seldom agree on anything to unite in outrage.
SARAH PALIN: Well, check this out, bodyguard, you're fired. I've had enough of these men being dogs and not being responsible.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But if all the questions have been answered, has the Secret Service been damaged beyond repair? We'll ask former Secret Service director Ralph Basham, and we'll bring in four key legislators investigating the case--Senators Joe Lieberman and Tom Coburn, and Representative Sheila Jackson Lee and Elijah Cummings.
Then we'll do a campaign quick check on the presidential race where Mitt Romney had this to say to the President.
MITT ROMNEY: Start packing. That's what I'd like to-- like to say.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Polls show Romney is closing in on the President, but is it a little early to be measuring drapes for the Oval office? We'll ask his longtime advisor Eric Fehrnstrom and Stephanie Cutter, the President's deputy campaign manager.
We'll talk about the changing face of poverty with the authors of a new book, Tavis Smiley and Cornel West.
And we'll get analysis on all of it from the Washington Post's Melinda Henneberger; National Journal's Major Garrett; and our own political team, John Dickerson and Norah O'Donnell.
That's a lot to cover but this is FACE THE NATION.
ANNOUNCER: From CBS News in Washington FACE THE NATION with Bob Schieffer.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And good morning, again, and welcome to FACE THE NATION. Senator Joe Lieberman who is chairman of the Senate Homeland Security & Government Affairs Committee is with us here. They do have congressional oversight on the Secret Service.
So, Senator, let me just get right at it here. On Friday another three Secret Service agents resigned, and the Secret Service announced that another agent was under investigation in a separate incident. Do you know what this-- this latest person to be identified--
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (Homeland Security & Government Affairs Committee Chairman/I-Connecticut) (voice overlapping): Yeah.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --that what that had-- what-- what's going on there?
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Right, Bob. The-- those announcements on Friday were significant in two regards. One is that it shows that Director Sullivan at the Secret Service is pursuing this investigation aggressively and comprehensively. It's clear to me now that he's interviewing everybody from the Secret Service who was in Cartagena. But what-- what is-- what was striking to me and significant is that the twelfth Agent now put on administrative leave as of Friday was not staying at the Caribe Hotel where the other agents were, but at the Hilton. And the Hilton is significant because that's where President Obama was going to stay. Now we don't know at this point what that twelfth agent is-- is being charged with and why he's been put on administrative leave. But now you're into the hotel where the President of the United States was going to stay. And it-- it just gets more troubling.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you have any indication yet of whether any White House staffers who were involved because any time the President travels overseas, as well as the Secret Service and the security people who go in advance, there are always White House staffers who go as part of the advance team. Do you have any indication anybody from the White House was involved?
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: I-- I don't, Bob, but I-- I'll tell you if-- if anybody at the White House asks for my counsel on this, I would say they ought to be launching their own internal review of all White House personnel, advance teams and the rest, who were in Cartagena to make sure that no one working for the White House was involved in any of the same kind of inappropriate behavior that the Secret Service agents were. Obviously, a Secret Service agent has a different range of responsibility than somebody on a White House advance team. On the other hand, if we're worried about compromising through sexual favors, the security of the President of the United States, the White House advance team, obviously, knows exactly where the President's going to be at every moment. And they have a responsibility in my opinion to conduct themselves at all times when they're working for the President in a way that doesn't make them vulnerable to being compromised by anybody who wants to do the President harm.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Where-- where is your committee on this? Are you going to hold hearings? Are you actively investigating? Where are you?
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Yes, we-- we have launched an inquiry and investigation and we will hold hearings on the Secret Service crisis, scandal, whatever you want to call it. I-- I have wanted and Senator Collins my ranking member, we wanted to give Director Sullivan and the office a professional responsibility. Some room here first to conduct their own investigation. But we begun our own investigation and we will be sending specific questions to the Secret Service this week. When Director Sullivan is through with his investigation of what happened in Cartagena we'll decide whether we need to do any more about that. But about Cartagena but what I am specifically going to be interested in is-- was what happened in Cartagena an exception are part of a pattern or behavior that happened over time elsewhere, and if it did, why didn't somebody at the Secret Service essentially blow the whistle on it? And what are they going to do now to make sure it never happens again.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And-- and well, your investigation include asking about the possible involvement of White House staffers? After all this comes under cabinet member Janet Napolitano, who is the secretary of Homeland Security, will you be calling her? Should she be looking into this?
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: I hope and believe she is. The-- the Secret Service is placed within the Department of Homeland Security now, so there are-- they-- in that sense a part of her administrate oversight. My guess is she is. We haven't decided on witnesses but we will sure be talking to her about what her department's going to do. Look, this is important. This is the safety of the President and vice president of the United States and their families. And for Secret Service agents who have the responsibility to protect the President, to act as these people did in Cartagena as if they were college kids on a spring break is reprehensible. And it-- it really does damage to the reputation of what I think has been a great organization. That's why the Secret Service and those of us who admire it I think have a special responsibility not to just stop after Director Sullivan finishes his investigation at Cartagena, we got to go on and keep asking questions to make sure--
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): What about the--
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: --it never happens again.
BOB SCHIEFFER: What about the Secret Service director, Mark Sullivan? Do you still have confidence in him?
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: I do at this point. I think he's reacted-- he reacted very quickly and very aggressively when he first heard of-- of the episode in Cartagena. And I think he's conducting a comprehensive investigation, as evidenced by the fact that he's-- he's talk-- his people are talking to everybody down there. But-- but in fairness to him and the-- and the Secret Service, our committee is going to look back at past conduct and-- and records of misconduct and to ask whether anybody at the Secret Service in the administration should have been on notice that something like this might-- might have been happening and to act-- to have acted to stop. Is there a code of conduct that the Secret Service agents know they've got to follow, not just when they're on duty but when they're on assignment because the truth is they should feel that they're always on duty because if they're compromised, then the safety of the President of the United States is compromised.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you one quick question about this scandal in the General Services Administration. I mean here the President's security was not at risk.
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Right.
BOB SCHIEFFER: It just seems a bunch of people who just basically were idiots about-- about putting on this-- this costly conference out in Las Vegas, all on the taxpayer's tab. What are you going to do about that?
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Well, this-- this is a really outrageous sickening episode, because, you know, it doesn't represent what I know to be most people who work for the federal government. But it-- but it's so outrageous, these-- these people took something like eight trips to Las Vegas over a year and a half to plan this convention. Those planning trips cost a hundred and fifty thousand dollars--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, what do you do about that?
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: The inspector general at GSA has done a very-- very good investigation. But here's the next steps and our committee is going to-- getting into this, too. One, we're going to ask the inspector general now to conduct a similar oversight investigation of the nine other regions--this happened in region nine out of San Francisco. I want to know if there's abuse in the others regions, particularly when it comes to conferences. Secondly, we-- we're going to call in the director, the acting administrator of GSA--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Mm-Hm.
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: --and ask him to take a look at the autonomy that each of these-- these regions have given-- have been given. I don't know at this point whether anybody in Washington had to sign off before these people spent a million dollars of taxpayer money on a party, basically.
BOB SCHIEFFER: It might be a good idea to fix the law, so they can't.
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Exactly, incidentally I know you have Tom Coburn coming on--Tuesday, another bill, Postal Reform from our committee.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Right.
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: He has got a very good amendment on-- I might like to tweak parts of it but it's going to limit the amount of money that federal bureaucrats can spend on conferences and force them to get sign off before they do.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Senator Lieberman, thank you so much for being with us.
SENATOR JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Thank you, Bob.
BOB SCHIEFFER: We're going to go directly now to Ralph Basham, who was the head of the Secret Service just before Mark Sullivan. The current director, he spent thirty-one years in the Secret Service.
Mister Basham, let me ask you-- I mean the question people are asking, is this just some sort of an anomaly or is this thing has been going on all the time? Did you have these kind of problems with your agents when you were there?
RALPH BASHAM (Former Director, U.S. Secret Service/Command Consulting Group): Bob, absolutely not. And-- and I will tell you, absolutely, that this is an aberration. This is not the character of the men and women who serve every day in the Secret Service. And-- and, obviously, this is a huge story, it's a huge issue, because this sort of thing does not happen in the Secret Service. And-- and I could answer Senator-- I think I can say to Senator Lieberman that-- that I don't believe in the past these types of things have happened. And they certainly didn't happen on my watch, and I spent over three decades in this organization. And I can tell you this is not what that organization is like.
BOB SCHIEFFER: So-- but you had-- you know, supervisors involved here. These weren't rookies. These were supervisors who, obviously, got to be supervisors-- some of that time they must have in the service you were the director. You're-- you're saying that there was never any indication of anything like this when you were there?
RALPH BASHAM: Well, Bob, that's not to say that-- that we did not have situations where agents, officers, got themselves into inappropriate situations and had to be brought back. And-- and in some cases, the di-- discipline went all the way to-- to re-- removing them from-- from the service. But-- but to this magnitude, absolutely not. And-- and-- and-- and what makes it even more of-- of an issue is the fact that it was done prior to the President's arrival, which could have compromised the-- the-- the-- the trip and the safety of the President. But-- but, but Mark Sullivan took immediate and decisive action just as Senator Lieberman said, removed those agents from Cartagena, and did immediate investigation to check-- to determine whether or not the President's security had been-- been compromised. He recognized-- they could not. I'm sorry.
BOB SCHIEFFER: I was just going to say how many agents were removed for things like this while-- while you were there?
RALPH BASHAM: I-- well, actually, I can recall one instance where the action went to the point of removing an agent from-- from duty. There were agents who were disciplined, you know, given time off, that-- that-- that sort of thing.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Mm-Hm.
RALPH BASHAM: But I can't recall one actually being removed. And-- but-- but, also I want to point out that-- that when Mark Sullivan made that decision to bring those agents out of there, he recognized that they could not remain there because--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Yeah.
RALPH BASHAM: --they would be distracted. They would distract others, and you cannot have these agents distracted when they're in the business of protecting the President of the United States.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you--
RALPH BASHAM: He's doing a thorough investigate-- go ahead.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, I was just going to say, do you think that the agency has been severely damaged by this? Obviously, it's a teaching moment, as people would say. But I wonder if their credibility hasn't been hurt pretty bad by this. And I agree with you-- these are some of the best of the best in the-- in the federal government.
RALPH BASHAM: Right, right. Well, like I-- Bob, you've been around the agents as long as I have, and you know what the-- the character of those agents are. And, certainly, this incident is an extremely embarrassing incident, but it is an incident, and-- and-- and I believe if you look back at the history of the Secret Service, you-- you've got to recognize that this is not characteristic of the organization. They'll get through this. They'll learn from this. And they'll move on to the important business that-- of protecting this nation's leaders.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, Mister Basham, I want to thank you for coming on. I wish it could have been under different circumstances but perhaps there will be a time down the road when-- when we'll have happier things to talk about. Thank you so much for being with us.
RALPH BASHAM: I-- I-- you're welcome, Bob. Thank you.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And we'll be back in one minute continuing on this story with some other key legislators.
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BOB SCHIEFFER: And welcome back.
We're going to get right to it with Elijah Cummings, he is on the Homeland Security Committee that is looking into this. Sheila Jackson Lee, another key legislator down in Oklahoma. Tom Coburn, who is on the Judiciary Committee, among other things; and with us, Norah O'Donnell who has been on top of this story from the very beginning. Norah, let me just start with you. We know that the President met with Mark Sullivan, the head of the Secret Service Friday, and I guess that was the first time the two of them had met face-to-face. What do you make of that meeting?
NORAH O'DONNELL (CBS News Chief White House correspondent): It was the first time the two had met. President Obama called the Secret Ser-- Service Director Mark Sullivan into the Oval Office for a face-to-face meeting. I'm told this was a briefing where Sullivan sort of gave the details about the twenty-three people who are now involved, which include twelve Secret Service agents and officers, and eleven members of the military. On Friday, we had an additional three resign. That brings to six the total number. It's not clear whether Mark Sullivan's future at the head of the Secret Service Agency was discussed.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me just go to our panel, then. Sheila Jackson Lee, you-- you have said flatly this thing needs to be cleaned up. Does that mean that Mister Sullivan has to go or do you still have confidence in him?
REPRESENTATIVE SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-Texas/Homeland Security Committee): Bob, I was in Colombia, and when I landed on Monday coming back from the organization of American states, Director Sullivan was the first person that I met with for at least two hours. I have faith in Director Sullivan but I believe we are at a moment in history since 1906, the Secret Service has protected the commander in chief the leader of the free world. We had a moment in the history that for the Secret Service to go forward the cancer must be carved out. Frankly, I think there should be no tolerance, zero tolerance, and I took the opportunity to read the Colombian law on prostitution. When the agents come back and tell us that it is legal, the only legal act is the sex worker's act. Everything else is illegal. Inducing, human trafficking, being at a place like The Pley Club that is like a brothel that gains profit. All of that is illegal. And these individuals breached the security, breached the integrity and honor of the Secret Service, which I respect, by doing this while they were there twenty-four hours a day to protect the leader of the free world.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me ask Elijah Cummings, you're the ranking member on that committee, you and the committee chairman Darrell Issa often disagree on things but you both came together on this and demanded a full and thorough investigation.
REPRESENTATIVE ELIJAH CUMMINGS (Oversight & Government Reform Committee): No-- no doubt about it, Bob. This is so very, very important. You know, the Secret Service has a very, very important job, and we-- and as I said to Director Sullivan, it's not only that I want the Secret Service to be the excellent organization that it is but I also want to make sure that people perceive it as being that, that is very important. A large part of their success is that people know that they cannot penetrate the armor of the Secret Service and so I think the Secret Service has to pause here, look very carefully at itself, and if changes are appropriate they need to make them. But I too-- I agree with (INDISTINCT) in Sheila Jackson Lee. I-- I have full faith in-- in Sullivan. I think he-- he moved on this quickly, he got those agents out immediately, he suspended them initially. He took away their clearance. And now, six of them are gone. And So I think-- but we've got to wait and see. Issa and I-- Chairman Issa and I have sent a letter to him asking a number of questions, trying to figure out whether or not this is an aberration or whatever, and seeing how-- a little history of these folks. And we also-- basically we're going to be sending a letter tomorrow to DoD because we want to see exactly what role DoD played in all of this, too.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me go to Tom Coburn who is down in Oklahoma and joining us from there this morning. Senator, you're on the judiciary committee. I think you're going to be calling-- your chairman is going to be calling Janet Napolitano before your committee. Should we be hearing something from cabinet secretary Napolitano, I mean the Secret Service comes under-- under her cabinet department and as far as I know we haven't heard very much from her. Are they investigating this?
SENATOR TOM COBURN (Judiciary Committee/R-Oklahoma): Well, I'm sure she is. You know I'm not critical of what the administration has done thus far. I think what we're seeing is an aberration, and I think Secretary Napolitano once she comes before we will have-- have answers to the question.
I-- I think it's really important, Bob, that we not jump ahead of the head of the Secret Service. He-- he has demonstrated in many ways that he's on top of this and we'll get to the bottom of it. And my experience with the Secret Service has been with stellar individuals. And I think the-- the important thing is is that we not allow an overreaction that would do more damage to the Secret Service rather than the appropriate response. Anybody that wasn't down there to take care of protecting our President and his group and-- and failed their duty should be gone. But I think this is a-- is an outlier for the Secret Service, and I think we'll get to the bottom of it. It's amazing how-- how interested we are in these types of things once a situation occurs, but we're not doing the oversight ahead of time and prior to something like this to make sure that something like this doesn't occur.
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): Let me--
SENATOR TOM COBURN: And Congress tends to react very well when there's a problem but they never anticipate the problems or do the oversight ahead of time.
BOB SCHIEFFER: That-- I-- I would kind of an-- probably all of us would-- would agree on that.
Sheila Jackson Lee, do you have any information about this latest Secret Service agent because, as you heard Senator Lieberman say, it turns out he apparently was in the other hotel, the hotel where the President later was.
REPRESENTATIVE SHEILA JACKSON LEE: Well, I will say Bob, that Homeland Security Committee that I am on is beginning its investigation with investigators in the field. And I believe that both Mister King and Mister Thompson and myself are pushing. I sent a letter the first day I arrived back. What I would say is that we know in my briefings from Director Sullivan just two days ago, that he is a problem and that he now equals the twelfth problem. Amongst the twenty women this individual is a problem. So they are investigating him. It is now twelve. That means five have not been addressed because they have due process rights, but what I would simply say is for the principle leadership that we expect they must be addressed and I believe they all should go.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right.
And we'll be back in a moment with some thoughts about one of America's favorite pastimes.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: The Secret Service may be dominating the sporting news, but let us not overlook a more reassuring sports development. Baseball season is off to another wonderful start. To those who speak of golf as a religious experience, I say no. That's why we have baseball. So I was delighted to read in the New York Times yesterday that not only have others seen the light so to speak but New York University is offering a four-credit course taught by NYU's president, John Sexton, called Baseball as a Road to God. Some criticize the game for being slow, but Doctor Sexton told the Times that its slowness allows us to notice the specialness of life and even what may be beyond. Well, of course, it does. To me, baseball's great lesson is how to deal with failure. In baseball as in life, even the best fail more often than they succeed. The three-hundred hitter fails to get a hit seven out of ten times. But baseball teaches that over the long season if you put your daily losses aside, go back to the ballpark the next day and play the game right, you will win your share of games. Baseball also produces its share of miracles. In case you hadn't noticed, the Washington Nationals are leading their division. And yesterday, Phil Humber, of the Chicago White Sox pitched a perfect game. No one reached first base. And the most amazing of all last week forty-nine-year-old Jamie Moyer of the Colorado Rockies became the oldest Major League pitcher ever to win a ball game. It is worth noting that after each game, Moyer thanks the home plate umpire if he thinks he's done a good job calling balls and strikes. Another lesson that goes beyond the ballpark.
Back in a minute.
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BOB SCHIEFFER: Some of our stations are leaving us now. For most of you, we'll be back with page two.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: And we're back now with page two of FACE THE NATION. And from time to time, from now till November, we will be doing a campaign quick check with key supporters of the candidates. With us in the studio this morning, Stephanie Cutter, the deputy campaign manager for President Obama. And in Boston, Eric Fehrnstrom, senior advisor to Mitt Romney.
Mister Fehrnstrom, we thank you for joining us this morning. You're coming off a pretty good week on the campaign. Most of the polling now shows that this race may be within the margin of error. The good news for you is that in the Wall Street Journal poll, it says when it comes to the economy, most people like Governor Romney's ideas. I'm sure you must be pleased to hear that.
ERIC FEHRNSTROM (Romney Campaign Senior Advisor): Yeah, Bob. Well, thank you for having me on the show. Here's a number you're going to hear a lot over the course of this campaign, twenty-three million. That's a number of people who are looking for work or who have become so discouraged they've stopped looking for work, or who are stuck in part-time jobs when what they really want is full-time employment. We all know that President Obama didn't create this recession, but his policies are not working for that twenty-three million people I just told you about. Last week, he was in Ohio, and he said that this election is going to come down to two competing visions. Well, that's not true. Incumbent Presidents don't get to run on vision. They have records that they have to run on, and we're going to hold him accountable to that.
BOB SCHIEFFER: That was the good news the economic numbers that-- that you talked about, about people favoring the President. There-- there was also some-- some numbers in the Wall Street Journal poll that I would guess might give you some concern. One of them asked who was the most easy-going and likable? President Obama was favored by fifty-four percent of the people to eighteen percent who said that about Romney. When asked about caring about average people? Again, fifty-two percent said President Obama cared more. Only twenty-two percent said Governor Romney. And in looking out for the middle class? Again, Mister Obama forty-eight percent of the people said they liked President Obama, believed that about him. Only twenty-seven percent said that about Governor Romney. So do you believe those numbers, Mister Fehrnstrom, and-- and what do you do? That seems like a challenge to me.
ERIC FEHRNSTROM: Well, I'll tell you, Bob, I've been associated with Mitt Romney for the past ten years, I've observed him in-- in public and I've observed him when the cameras are off. I've witnessed his acts of charity. I've seen how he relates to his family, and I've seen how he interacts with complete strangers, and I can tell you that this is a man of integrity and character. And I think over the course of this next seven months of the campaign, Americans are going to see that, too. And I'm confident at the end of this process they're going to choose Mitt Romney as their next President.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But-- but he has been out there for a while now, and somehow he cannot seem to get that part across. Why-- why do you think that is?
ERIC FEHRNSTROM: Well, I-- you know, again I have to disagree, we're just-- we're just starting off now on the general election campaign. It's going to be a long road, seven months. People are going to be learning a lot about Mitt Romney, a lot about his family, about his wife, Ann. And, again, at the-- at the end of the process, I think they're going to see in Mitt Romney a person of integrity, a person of character, and someone who can lead this country through-- through some very challenging times with our economy and we have no doubt that at the end of the day, he will be the-- the choice of-- of Americans for their next President.
BOB SCHIEFFER: What do you think is the best thing your campaign has going for it right now?
ERIC FEHRNSTROM: I think the best thing we have going for us is-- is a candidate with a strong pro jobs message. People are looking for someone with capability to-- to lead during some very challenging times. And you look at Mitt Romney, he spent the last, well, the bulk of his career in the-- in the private sector. He had a very successful record running the Olympics and he was governor of this state for four years. And when he became governor of Massachusetts, he came into office during a recession. The state was losing thousands of jobs every month. The budget was unbalanced, and four years later, when he left, the economy had been completely turned around. We were creating thousands of jobs every month and the budget had been balanced all four years without a tax increase. I think that's the record of accomplishment that people want to see in their next President.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Eric Fehrnstrom, thank you very much for joining us. We hope we can check in with you from time to time, as we get closer to November. And, of course, we would love to have Governor Romney on FACE THE NATION.
ERIC FEHRNSTROM: Well, thank you, Bob, for having me.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Thank you. And what about Governor Romney?
ERIC FEHRNSTROM: We'll-- we're-- we're-- we're in constant discussions with your staff, and I'm sure that we'll find an opportunity in the near future to bring him on the show.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Thank you so much, Mister Fehrnstrom.
ERIC FEHRNSTROM: Thank you.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And now to the Obama campaign side of the story, and Stephanie Cutter, the President's deputy campaign manager. Ms. Cutter, of course, we also would like to see President Obama whenever he can find time.
STEPHANIE CUTTER (Obama 2012 Deputy Campaign Manager): Dully noted.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, you heard Eric Fehrnstrom. He says Mitt Romney has seven months to connect and kind of fix this image problem. What do you think?
STEPHANIE CUTTER: Well, I think that he's been running for President for the past six years and this image problem hasn't changed, so I'm not sure exactly what the next seven months are going to do, particularly when you're spending your campaign really running a wholly negative campaign. You know, I listen to Mister Fehrnstrom talk about how this election is about capability and vision. Well, let's take a look at what just happened this week. In a-- a nationally televised interview, when asked what message Mitt Romney had for Barack Obama, he said, "pack your bags." Now, I think the American people want to make their own decision about this election. They don't need Mitt Romney to tell them. And then Mitt Romney went on to follow the President to Ohio. The President was there talking about what we've done to train workers for new and better jobs that pay higher wages and the need to invest in worker training so that we can be competitive with countries like India and China.
Now Mitt Romney went to a plant that closed under George Bush, and he tried to blame Barack Obama. And that's the type of campaign that he's running. And instead of laying out a vision of where he wants to take this economy in his speech in Ohio, he had a speech full of distortions and dishonesty. And now, you don't have to just take this from me. You take it from members of the-- of Governor Romney's own party, Mitch Daniels who said this week that he was disappointed in Mitt Romney for not laying out that vision and for running a wholly negative campaign.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you expect to-- to hear Mitt Romney talking about his years as governor? He didn't talk much about it during the-- during the early primaries. But as Eric Fehrnstrom said this morning--
STEPHANIE CUTTER: Right.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --he had a very good record there.
STEPHANIE CUTTER: Well, I think that the facts show something very different. And I think-- you know, CBS had a poll out this week that really showed that people didn't really know much about Mitt Romney. And Mister Fehrnstrom said it himself. Well, here's what they don't know. Mitt Romney as governor, despite coming in based on his private sector business experience and making enormous promises what he was going to do for the economy, similar promises that he's making right now, led the state to forty-seventh out of fiftieth in job creation. Now the states that were behind Massachusetts were largely states that were hit by Katrina. He said he was going to reduce the size of government. He increased the size of government by more than six percent a year. Manufacturing jobs left that state at twice the national average. So that's the record of Mitt Romney and despite a balanced budget in Massachusetts, he left the country-- the-- the state in debt, the largest per-capita debt-- debt of any state in the country.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you this: clearly these polls show that-- that people do like his approach though on how to fix the economy. Gas prices are very high--
STEPHANIE CUTTER: Mm-Hm.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --there's still a lot of people out of work. Do you expect that to change before Election Day?
STEPHANIE CUTTER: About Mitt Romney's experience on the economy? Yes, because I don't think they have any understanding of what the experience is. You know if you look at what the President has--
BOB SCHIEFFER: But I'm talking about the record that the President's having to run on.
STEPHANIE CUTTER: Right. Let's talk about that record. You know since the-- the end of the recovery-- end of the recession, we've created four-- 4.1 million jobs. Manufacturing is the highest it's been in two decades. We've-- we're on track to double our exports. You know, we're sending more kids to college, reducing their-- their debt coming out. That's the record of this President. We're making investments to-- to grow this economy for the long term, make sure everybody pays their fair share and hard work pays and responsibility is rewarded. That's the record of this administration. If you compare that to Mitt Romney's record--now, it's not just what he's saying on the campaign trail it's what his actual record is. It stands in stark contrast. You know Mitt Romney praised George Bush for his economic policies in 2004, and the-- and as the-- the country was coming out of the Bush recession and just this week we heard a Republican spokesperson to say Mitt Romney and the Republican policies are just Bush updated policies. We know how that story ends and I don't think the American people want to go back there.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Stephanie Cutter, thank you very much. Next time, of course, we'll let your campaign go first, and we'll give the Romney campaign the last word but we'll be doing this from time to time.
STEPHANIE CUTTER: Okay.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Thank you so much and--
STEPHANIE CUTTER: Thank you.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --we'll be back with one minute with more politics from our news round table.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: And for a little analysis this morning Melinda Henneberger, who writes for the Washington Post; Major Garrett of National Journal; and our favorite CBS News political team Norah O'Donnell and John Dickerson. Major, I have got to start with you because there was this--I don't want to call it an incident but this episode today where-- where you were interviewing Marco Rubio--
MAJOR RUBIO (National Journal): Yes.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --I guess at the National Journal panel and you are sitting right next to Marco Rubio, and the whole question of vice presidency and who is going to be on the ticket came up, and here's what happened.
MAJOR GARRETT (National Journal): --I forgotten all the sensibilities of television programming, so--
MARCO RUBIO: Three, four, five, six, seven years from now, if I do a good job as vice president-- I'm sorry.
MAJOR GARRETT: You guys all got that, right?
MARCO RUBIO: As a senator.
MAJOR GARRETT: You all got that, right?
MARCO RUBIO: If I do a good job as a senator instead of a vice president, I'll have a chance to do-- I'll have a chance to do all sorts of things.
BOB SCHIEFFER: So there you go. So, obviously, it was a slip of the tongue, but what was that all about?
MAJOR GARRETT (overlapping): It was a slip of the tongue.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you think he wants to be on the ticket?
MAJOR GARRETT: He says he doesn't. And I did an interview with Senator Rubio about three months ago and I said, look, let's understand as a predicate for this kind of question, the answer from a person like you is always no until it's yes, right? The nominee asks you, what are you going to do? You're probably going to say yes, but in this interview before that slip up, I said, all right, Senator Rubio, you just-- the whole conference was about National Journal thing looking into the new American demographics, the Latino movement all across the United States, how is it changing politics. And Senator Rubio gave a very long, eloquent answer about how Republicans need to adapt to this changing environment. I said, what if Governor Romney said, I saw that answer, it's so impressive. Not only do I need you, but the party needs you and he says will you run. What is your answer going to be? He said no, I will not run. Okay, that's his on-the-record response for now. But then you had the Freudian slip a few seconds ago, so I think we have advanced them all a little bit, but there's still some thought he has in his mind about possibly running.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Norah, I-- if I heard right I think Jeb Bush said today, that if Romney asked him he probably would but he said he didn't think he would ask him and he thought Marco Rubio would be a better-- a better running mate. Do you-- would you place any credence in that?
NORAH O'DONNELL: Well I think that that Romney team will look and see where they are in a couple of months about who they choose as vice president. Romney, no doubt has a huge problem among Hispanic voters. I was just looking at the numbers in the Wall Street Journal poll that I think had Obama up forty-seven points among Hispanics, and Hispanics are the fastest and largest minority group in this country. They make up I think thirteen percent of the-- the population. Romney will not be able to win the presidency unless he does better among Hispanics. And they're important in a lot of those key swing states--Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico. President Obama this week began running Spanish language TV and radio ads in Colorado and Nevada. Those are states that are going to be extremely important in the Hispanic vote.
BOB SCHIEFFER: So--
NORAH O'DONNELL: So he may have to choose someone like Rubio, if he doesn't improve in terms of his standing amongst Hispanics.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Or-- or Jeb Bush who is married to a Hispanic and who also was the governor of Florida. This thing is getting so close. It may well be who he picks as vice president, could make a difference. What do you make of these polls showing this race closing?
JOHN DICKERSON (CBS News Political Director): That's right. There are so many this week. Basically, at the top it's tied. Basically-- President Obama has a little advantage over Romney in these head-to-head polls, but this is not a Titanic struggle of Titanic candidates. This is the struggle of two weak candidates. The President's numbers--his approval rating under fifty percent, that's bad. Sixty percent of the country thinks we are going in the wrong direction. That's an improvement, but still bad for an incumbent President. On the question of the economy, the President's approval rating, disapprove over approve by ten points. But Mitt Romney is in bad shape as we saw in all those Wall Street Journal polls. In the Washington Post poll he is in the worst position of any-- non-party nominee since 1984, but if people don't want to go on a picnic with him they do think he's competent and that's the good thing for him, but you see in these two weaknesses why the President wants it to be a race about Mitt Romney, and why Mitt Romney wants it to be a thumbs-up or a thumbs-down on the President.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Melinda, I want to talk to you because you wrote a column in The Post this week, call and your-- your-- your column is called She The People. Today's column, you point out that women don't vote based on who the candidate is married to and--
MELINDA HENNEBERGER (Washington Post): Right.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --while Romney does seem to be closing the gap with women in general, certainly not with single women. How important is the women's vote and can Romney get it?
MELINDA HENNEBERGER: That's why I think they kept-- keep saying Ann Romney, Ann Romney, Ann Romney, because what else are they going to say? I honestly think there are huge questions about whether there's any way Romney can close the gap with women voters and when you have a twenty point-- when you're down twenty points with the majority of the electorate, that's a big problem. I just think in addition to the Hispanic vote that Norah mentioned with these women voters, a big deal-- and I don't even think you can overestimate it-- is likeability. Because even though when women say they vote on the economy, they vote on jobs, they vote on gas prices, deficit. Likeability plays into those factors, too, because so much of it goes back to who do I trust? And I really think that at this point on likeability and with the women voters I really think even in the tight race we're seeing at this point so much is out of the incumbent's control. I would certainly give the edge to Obama at this point.
BOB SCHIEFFER: I agree with you that people in a presidential race, unlike any other contest, they vote with-- for the person they feel most comfortable with in time of crisis. Thanks to all of you. I wish we could talk longer.
In a moment, we're going to have a special discussion on one of the biggest problems in America today. You don't hear much about it in the campaign, poverty.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: The campaign has focused a lot of attention on unemployment, but what we don't talk about so much is the poverty that it has caused. One part of that is that sixteen million children now live in poverty. And early last year in a 60 MINUTES story that literally took our breath away. Scott Pelley told us about how some of those children are living.
SCOTT PELLEY (60 MINUTES, November 27, 2011): If you were rushing to work this morning in Seminole County, Florida, it's not likely you would notice the truck or hear the children getting ready for school.
GIRL: In the clear bin, we have dirty laundry. In that one there's tools that we might need.
SCOTT PELLEY: All these bank backs are storage of this and that.
GIRL: Like shampoo--
BOY: And over here is food.
GIRL: Food.
SCOTT PELLEY: So you're really not heating up food so much. You're eating out of cans?
GIRL: Yep.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, after that story aired, the story of five children, a family of five, living in a truck. The kids in that story were given free housing. Their parents were offered jobs. Two kids have been offered full scholarships from three colleges but that is only one happy ending in a much larger story and the problems are even worse now, according to our guests this morning Cornel West of Princeton, and Tavis Smiley, the PBS television talk show host. They have written a book called The Rich and the Rest of Us about poverty in America. Let me just start how bad is it, Tavis?
TAVIS SMILEY (PBS/The Rich and the Rest of Us): It-- it's horrible when one out of two Americans, Bob, are living either in or near poverty that means a hundred and fifty million Americans, half of us, are wrestling with this issue. What we argue in this text The Rich and the Rest of Us is that poverty now, Bob, threatens our very democracy. Poverty now is a matter of national security. There seems to be a bipartisan consensus in this town, you know how hard that is to do with a bipartisan consensus that the poor just don't matter. The poverty is just not an important issue. We cannot abide another campaign for the White House where the issue of poverty isn't raised higher on the American agenda.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Cornel, you were a big supporter of Barack Obama in the last election. You-- you really got off of him though, and it's over this. Why so?
CORNEL WEST, PH.D. (The Rich and the Rest of Us): Well, my critique has to do with a system that has warped priorities. The question is what kind of nation we really are, what kind of people we-- we really are. One percent of our population own forty-two percent of the wealth. We would both say here quite explicitly, that Barack Obama is better than Mitt Romney when it comes to poor people but when you look at the system as a whole, there's an intimate connection between the deadening zones of poverty and the deadly drones that kill terrorists but also innocent people, why? We put higher priority on military, less priority on our precious and priceless poor people of all colors, especially our children.
BOB SCHIEFFER: You-- you point out in this book that the face of poverty is changing. It's not just overwhelmingly black folks.
CORNEL WEST: Absolutely. We've got significant number of white brothers and sisters. And we began, but Tavis came up with the idea of the poverty tool was this text, and I'm blessed to work with him. We began on the Indian reservation, indigenous people is precious too. But the public face now--white, more and more white middle class.
TAVIS SMILEY: That-- that's been a problem for a long time, Bob.
CORNEL WEST: Yes, it is.
TAVIS SMILEY: We think poverty. We think that it's color coded. We think poverty, we think black, we think brown. But one doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to know that if half of the nation is wrestling with poverty this is not a black problem or a brown problem. It's not that people have character flaws. This is a societal crisis right now.
BOB SCHIEFFER: You're saying half the people in America are living in poverty?
TAVIS SMILEY: If you-- if you--
CORNEL WEST: No.
TAVIS SMILEY: --the census-- the census tells us that if you take the perennially poor or the persistent poor, the new poor, which we call the former middle class in this book, the new poor are the former middle class, and the near poor are those who are just a paycheck or two away from being in poverty, you're talking about a hundred and fifty million people.
CORNEL WEST: That's right. It's about poor and low income.
TAVIS SMILEY: You bet.
CORNEL WEST: And you already reported in December 15, 2011 with that census bureau with Byron Pitts, one half low income or poor.
BOB SCHIEFFER: What do you do about it in this age of shrinking budgets? There's no question that the government faces, there's enormous deficit problem. Cornel, where would you start?
CORNEL WEST: Well, we've got a political system that's broken, you know, both parties tied to big money. And so the problem is we make our choices relative to those two parties or we offer third party possibilities. But most importantly we need a massive job program. We need investment in education, quality jobs and housing, do away with discourse about austerity, focus on massive investment, research and development, infrastructure, and job creation.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Thirty seconds.
TAVIS SMILEY: Progressive tax code, number one. Number two, women and children first. There's a reason, fifteen years after the Clinton administration, women and children are falling fastest into poverty. We've got to do something about this imbalance between public and private, housing, schools, and prisons now under private control basically. We're a better nation. We can do better, starting with a White House conference--
CORNEL WEST: Yeah.
TAVIS SMILEY: --on the eradication of poverty in this country.
BOB SCHIEFFER: I have to end it there. I thank both of you for being here.
TAVIS SMILEY: Thank you, Bob.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Back in a minute with our Fast-- FACE THE NATION Flashback.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: Finally today, Washington is the place where people and things and ideas come and go. But we had a special visitor last week. The Shuttle Discovery came to town and came in spectacular fashion riding atop a huge 747 aircraft. Discovery's being retired to the Smithsonian Museum, and in effect, that means the end of America's manned space program, a program well under way in 1981 when the first shuttle was blasted into space, and that is our FACE THE NATION Flashback.
MAN: Lift off an Apollo 11.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Millions around the country had turned out to cheer the first astronauts who came back from the moon in 1969.
WALTER CRONKITE: You and Buzz got out and walked around.
BOB SCHIEFFER: On FACE THE NATION, Neil Armstrong, the first man to walk on the moon, told Walter Cronkite it was possible there would be a man on Mars by 1981.
NEIL ARMSTRONG: I certainly think it's well within our capability to be prepared for that date.
EUGENE CERNAN: This has got to be one of the most proud moments of my life.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But it was not to be. There would be more trips to the moon. The Hubble Telescope was put into orbit, and satellites provide weather, communication, and directional services that we take for granted now. An American robot even patrols the plains of Mars.
BARRY WILMORE: Roger roll, Atlantis.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But priorities changed, budgets shrank and when the last shuttle returned to Earth last year, the early astronauts' dreams of going to another planet died.
This week's FACE THE NATION Flashback.
And we'll be right here next week on FACE THE NATION. Hope you can join us and thanks for watching.