"Face the Nation" transcript: February 5, 2012

Below is a rush transcript of "Face the Nation" on February 5, 2012, hosted by CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer. The guests are Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, author of "The Real Romney" Michael Kranish and CBS News' Norah O'Donnell and John Dickerson.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Today on FACE THE NATION, Romney wins another one as the campaign moves west, the Wild West.

MITT ROMNEY (Republican Presidential Candidate): Thank you, Nevada.

BOB SCHIEFFER: That's three wins out of five contests for Romney, but Newt Gingrich says he's just begun to fight.

NEWT GINGRICH (Republican Presidential Candidate/Former House Speaker): We will continue to campaign all the way to Tampa.

BOB SCHIEFFER: He will be with us this morning to tell us how he plans to do that. And he's not the only one who claims the week re-energized him. Check the late night comics.

JON STEWART ("The Daily Show"): But for me, there's been an emptiness, something missing for quite some time now from the race. A mogul-shaped hole in my heart. And then this morning--

MAN (Fox News): Donald Trump expected to make a major announcement about the presidential race.

(Crowd laughter)

JON STEWART ("The Daily Show"): Thank God.

BOB SCHIEFFER: The Donald-endorsed Romney just after the frontrunner came up with one of those What Was He Thinking sound bites.

MITT ROMNEY: I-- I'm not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there--

BOB SCHIEFFER: Excuse me.

MITT ROMNEY: And we have a safety net to help those that are very poor, but my campaign is focused on middle-income Americans.

NEWT GINGRICH: If you're a genuine conservative, first of all you don't say that you don't care about the poor.

BOB SCHIEFFER: How is all this playing with Republicans around the country? Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani will be here to talk about that.

Plus, analysis from Michael Kranish, co-author of The Real Romney. And our own John Dickerson and Norah O'Donnell. So strike up the band.

(Mitt Romney singing)

BOB SCHIEFFER: This is FACE THE NATION.

ANNOUNCER: From CBS News in Washington FACE THE NATION with Bob Schieffer.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And good morning again. And welcome to FACE THE NATION. As you probably heard by now, Mitt Romney did win big in Nevada yesterday. Newt Gingrich, Ron Paul, Rick Santorum trailing. As we've done for weeks now, we invited Governor Romney to be with us, but his campaign declined so we say hello again to Newt Gingrich. Mister Speaker, I feel inclined to give you equal twang. Would you like to sing something, a brief tune for us?

NEWT GINGRICH: No, I-- I-- I couldn't decide which of those two things was your funny introduction. I think-- you know, Clint-- Clint Eastwood once said a man should know his limitations. I-- I'm not singing. Callista is the singer in our family. I'm the listener.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, what do you see now, Mister Speaker, as your path to the nomination? There-- you know, there are no debates for the-- almost till the end of the month here. That's how it has been a place where you've managed to hang in here. How-- how do you do it now if you are indeed going to stay in?

NEWT GINGRICH: Well, I think you focus on very big differences. You just had one a minute ago. Governor Romney's description that he doesn't worry about the poor because they have a safety net. I think conservatives in fact do worry about helping every American pursue happiness. And conservatives recognize that the safety net also often becomes a spider web that keeps people trapped at the bottom. What we want to build is a trampoline to help them rise into, you know, prosperous middle-class status. So, what we're going to do over the month of February is lay out very big choices. I have a very bold tax plan. The Wall Street Journal said it was the most aggressive job-creation program.

They described Governor Romney as so timid. It could have been Obama's. I-- I have a very bold Social Security plan for young people to allow them to have a personal Social Security savings account. The governor is very timid. We have a very bold program for developing new approaches to block granting welfare back to the states. The governor is basically very timid. My goal will be over in the course of February to show that there is a way to change Washington. There's a way to get us back in the right track. It's different from Obama and it's different from Romney. And I hope by the time we get to Super Tuesday, they'll have made the case that a genuine conservative is a dramatically better choice to defeat Barack Obama than somebody who is in many ways frankly not very distinguishable from President Obama.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, uh, I take your point, but, you know, there are no debates scheduled. How are you going to get your message out because everybody knows you don't have an organization like he does and you don't have the money that he has.

NEWT GINGRICH: No, but what we do have is a lot of people, we have a lot of popular support. At newt.org, we now have a hundred and sixty thousand donors. We have thousands more signing up every week. Ninety-seven percent of them by the way are under two hundred and fifty dollars. So we have a-- a pretty big grass-roots movement in every single state. And when-- when you look at, for example, the last two, the-- the primary in South Carolina and the primary in Florida, an interesting side effect. In Florida, every county that I carried-- and I carried most of the northern counties in the state-- every county that I carried had an increase in turnout over last time. Every county that Governor Romney carried had a decrease in turnout over last time. In South Carolina, we set the record. We had a one-third increase in turnout and so my job all the way to Super Tuesday and then beyond to Texas, and my goal is with Governor Perry's help and others to have basically be about tied in delegates around the time we come out of Texas. My job is to communicate that, in fact, there is a very big choice to do that on television with you, to do it on Talk Radio, to do it through the internet, to do with paid media. We had a very good series of fund-raising meetings and calls over-- over the last couple of days. There's-- there's a large number of people who, when they look at Governor Romney's background, they look at how similar Romney-care and Obamacare are, they look at his job creation record which was the third worst in the country. Forty-eight thousand manufacturing jobs lost while he was governor, combination of tax increases and Romney-care driving jobs out of the state. They-- they look at values. He was pro-abortion, pro-gun control. I think there are a lot of people coming to me and saying, we need one conservative candidate as an alternative and they're prepared to help raise money to be that candidate.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you this. You said something back in Iowa to Norah O'Donnell and to myself that really stuck with us. We asked you, are you saying flatly that Mitt Romney is a liar? And you said yes. And then I said, well, having said that, if he does get the nomination, could you support him? And you said yes. Well, things have gotten a lot-- even a lot nastier than it was out there. Since then do you think that if he does get the nomination, are you prepared to say you could still support him?

NEWT GINGRICH: Look, I believe that President Obama is such a direct threat to the future of this country that I will support the Republican nominee because I think that re-election of President Obama is a disaster. Just take the one example in the last ten days. Of the war against the Catholic Church which the Obama administration has launched which is the most outrageous assault on religious liberty in American history. This is an administration which consistently, again and again, now they're negotiating with the Taliban. They're-- they're steadily incrementally accommodating radical Islamism. Every time you turn around, the Obama administration, which has a plan by the way at the Environmental Protection Agency to add twenty-five cents a gallon to every gall-- gallon of gasoline at a time when it's already the highest price in history. So I will tell you, I think President Obama is so unacceptable that I will support the Republican nominee. That doesn't mean that I approve of Governor Romney's approach. But-- but I would-- but compared to President Obama, I think there would be no choice.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you just one question about something that's not directly about the campaign. This situation in Syria has really taken a turn for the worse, President Obama is saying Assad must halt his campaign of killing and crimes now and that he must step aside. Is there anything we can do beyond that or should we?

NEWT GINGRICH: Well, I think there are a lot of things we could do covertly in terms of supplying weapons, supplying-- having helping people in the region supply advisors. I think we-- we should make clear to the world that Assad is going to be-- is going to go. And I think you can put together a coalition to get rid of him. I don't think you need to use American troops. But you do need to communicate that those who are opposed to Assad will get the kind of support they need in order to-- to defeat him.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Mister Gingrich, thank you very much for stopping by. We hope to see you again before all this is over. Appreciate you coming by this morning.

NEWT GINGRICH: Good-- good talking to you, Bob.

BOB SCHIEFFER: I want to turn now to somebody who has been watching us from afar. Rudy Giuliani is out in Indianapolis this morning. I can't imagine why. Mister Mayor, are you prepared to endorse anyone other than the New York Giants today?

RUDY GIULIANI (Former New York City Mayor/Former Republican Presidential Candidate): Not yet. I'm-- I'm listening very carefully and I know all of these men very well and I have very high regard for them. I-- I've become concerned when they start attacking each other not-- not in general but when they start attacking each other as if they're Democrats.

You know, when Newt began with the attack on-- on-- on Romney with-- with regard to Bain Capital a couple of weeks ago, he-- he ceased from that or vice versa when Romney attacked Newt over some of the ways in which he's earned his money and, I mean, the-- the best thing-- the best thing for us would be if Newt start to everything you said after his first comment when he interviewed which are the issues of the campaign. There is a difference. They have some big differences over Romney-care. They have big differences over taxes. Newt's plan on taxes is better. Then-- then Governor Romney's plan, it is exact-- exactly as he said bolder. Newt is-- is much more willing to make dramatic changes in the way the government operates and if it-- if it were just one conservative candidate of Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich could agree somehow, toss a coin or have a good discussion, I think it would be a much more interesting race.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, when you say you have-- and you've-- you've had some pretty strong things to say. I-- I just want to put up on the screen a couple of things you have said regarding Gingrich, you said, "What the hell are you doing Newt?" Attacking Romney on Bain Capital? And then on Romney you said, "I've never seen a guy change his positions (sic) on so many things so fast on a dime, on-- on everything." Go ahead.

RUDY GIULIANI: Well, I think maybe-- maybe I reflect some of the confusion that all those Republicans out there have that are having a hard time making up their minds, now to-- to credit Newt with what-- what he did was, I did make those comments. Newt called me, we talked it over. And Newt explained why-- why he had said what he said. I thought he was wrong but he had an explanation for it and then he stopped it. I mean, he-- he's moved on to-- to the issues in the-- in the campaign. Governor-- Governor Romney, I think-- I think that's the big issue with Governor Romney. I think that's the reason why he's having a hard time getting to that fifty, fifty-one, fifty-two, fifty-three percent. And Newt pointed it out before when he was interviewing you. He has changed his position on virtually everything. He was a traditional moderate Republican, strong on fiscal matters, conservative, strong on foreign policy, but basically socially moderate. And he changed all that.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Are you--

RUDY GIULIANI: --I am a moderate Republican, that's what I am. So I'd be inclined to support someone like-- like Mitt Romney. But all those changes in positions give me-- give me pause. But like Newt, my-- my major concern is defeating Barack Obama. So I want to be careful that we conduct an issues-oriented campaign that grows these candidates and doesn't destroy them.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you this. As you watch all this unfold, are you sorry now that you didn't run this time?

RUDY GIULIANI: No, no, no, no. If-- if-- if Mitt Romney having changed all those positions isn't conservative enough yet, believe me, I wouldn't have had a chance. I'm realistic enough to know how Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Florida, how-- how they would vote. And they would like me on economics, they would like me on national security, but they wouldn't like me on my social views and I'm not about to change them. They-- they are very much with me.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You know, you brought up something very interesting or at least it's been interesting to me. You said I am a moderate Republican. And are there-- are there moderate Republicans out there anymore? Is there such a thing as what be used to see as the Republican establishment?

RUDY GIULIANI: Well-- well, you know, I consider myself a conservative because that's what the New York Times always says about me when I was the mayor. But when I look at the whole-- when I look at the whole picture of Republicans, on two areas, gay rights and on-- on choice, I-- I'm-- I would be considered a moderate. I don't necessarily consider myself that way. But in order to describe myself I'm more than willing to go say that I am. And both of those positions are positions of conscience to me. I can't change them. Even if-- even if I got elected president-- even if I could be elected president, I couldn't change those positions. I wouldn't be able to function, I think, properly and honestly if I did.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, do you-- do you worry right now? You talk about some-- some-- some of the conservatives ought to drop out here. Is what you're saying that probably Rick Santorum ought to excuse himself, or?

RUDY GIULIANI: Well, I don't know. I mean, I-- I-- I can't decide for either one of them who would be the better candidate. Both-- they both have arguments that they're better candidates. And that's a really hard thing to do. But you're not getting a true picture of-- of what the opposition to Governor Romney is because it's split. Now, you know, it may-- it may-- it may remain that way. And if Governor Romney is the nominee I'm certainly going to-- going to support him. He is so much better than President Obama on the economy, on national security. I think Newt made a very good point about this attack on the Catholic Church. Here I am a pro-choice Republican but I-- I think the attack on the Cha-- Catholic Church is outrageous. I think it's a violation the First Amendment of the Constitution. And I think it's a real indication of how far left the Obama administration is.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you-- do you think this primary season so far has actually hurt Republicans or is it helping them?

RUDY GIULIANI: Hard to say. You know, I remember-- I remember, like you do, way back the Reagan-Bush primary when-- when-- when Bush did the voodoo economics against-- against Reagan. And so they could never get together and then Reagan picked him as his vice presidential candidate. These things can get pretty bitter. And then you can sum them up. I mean, the race between Obama and Hillary Clinton was truly vicious, even charges of racism and all sorts of things. And they not only got it together. She's now his secretary of state. So I guess the short answer to it is no, I actually think it-- it isn't hurting yet. I do think some of the Democrat-inspired criticism of the can-- of the candidates like seizing on Governor Romney's comment about the poor. Look, he shouldn't have been said that way. I understand what he was saying. What he was saying was there is support for the poor, of course it should be better, of course, it should be more effective. And of course it should be geared toward moving people into the middle class. But it's there. And there's support for the rich. They've got their own. It-- it's in that middle class area, even-- even the gap in health care is basically middle class, lower middle class people not poor people.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right.

RUDY GIULIANI: I think that's what he was talking about.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, Mister Mayor, we thank you for coming by. We always enjoy hearing your-- your side of it. Thanks a lot for coming.

RUDY GIULIANI: Thank you very much.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Back in a minute with our political panel.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: And we're back now with our round table. Michael Kranish reporter for the Boston Globe, co-author of the Real Romney. Plus, our political dynamic duo chief White House correspondent Norah O'Donnell and political director John Dickerson. Michael, I-- I want to first say this is really a good book. I'm about a half way into it and it's not the basic campaign book. This is really a little bit of history. You all have done a tremendous amount of research.

Let me ask you this, are you surprised what all of the research-- this book was five years in the making, I think. Has Governor Romney said anything that surprised you so far?

MICHAEL KRANISH (The Real Romney): Well, it's interesting. You know, twice in the last of couple of weeks, he said that was a mistake. I made a mistake. For example, not releasing the tax returns when he was really pressured by people who are his strong supporters saying do it now. Finally did it, he said it was a mistake not to do it earlier. And then again, when he said I'm not very concerned about the poor, the way he worded it was wrong. And he said, after a couple of days that was a mistake. So it's not the kind of thing that he likes to say, he doesn't like to project that image, but he's really had to-- to listen to some of the folks outside the inner circle who were saying you really got ahead of this, you know, this is causing problems.

BOB SCHIEFFER: John Dickerson put it all in perspective now. Gingrich says he's hanging around for the long haul. How does this work out? Can he do that?

JOHN DICKERSON (CBS News Political Director): Well, it's very hard. I mean, Romney now has had consecutive win which we haven't seen so far in this primary. And so he's trying to start the victory parade and Gingrich is just trying to convince us that he's not on a death march to-- to Tampa. The problem for Gingrich is he's got a lot of obstacles there of the seven remaining contests. Romney has won four in the past in 2008. He has a lot more money than Gingrich has. And what we've seen in Nevada, and we saw it in Florida, too, is that organization matters. And the Romney campaign has been pre-- been preparing for a long fight. And they've the organization in place. And that matters in terms of turning out your vote. But also just getting on the right page, keeping a single message. Those are challenges for Gingrich, and also he's got a find-- as you quite rightly pointed out. He's got to find a way to break into the new cycle. And he's got a lot of different messages and he may be able to nick Romney a little bit. But he needs to really get out there and explain to people why he's the alternative, why he is the general election candidate. And he just doesn't have the opportunities to do that.

BOB SCHIEFFER: It's an uphill fight for but it's not over yet.

JOHN DICKERSON: No, not at all. And also he does best when he's behind. When everybody is counting him out, in fact, he should design a way for that to happen because that's when he really comes on strong. So now, everybody is counting him out. It's time for him to come back if this campaign is any judge. He has come back already two or three times.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Norah O'Donnell, you cover the White House, you're there everyday. We keep asking people from the Obama campaign to come on FACE THE NATION and give us their thoughts about how it's going. So far, they say no. Why-- why do you think that is?

NORAH O'DONNELL (CBS News Chief White House Correspondent): Well, it is almost as if the Obama team is taking a bye week while the Republicans tear each other apart on the Republican primary process field. But I think it's a strategic decision that the longer this primary process goes on, the more they see that it drives Romney to the right and it will shorten the amount of time that he can court the independent vote, that, of course, is going to decide the selection. And quite frankly, if you look at the polls, you see that Romney's disapproval rating among independents has actually spiked recently. And President Obama is focused on the message that he laid out in a state of the union address talking about housing, jobs and trying to push up his numbers among independents.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Michael, why do you think Mitt Romney has such a hard time, for want of a better word, connecting with people?

MICHAEL KRANISH (The Real Romney): Well, you know, Mitt Romney as we write in the book, really grew up in the series of bubbles, a very wealthy community. His father was the governor, went on Mor Mission two-and-a-half years and then to Harvard and the world of private equity, so it's been a series of bubbles. He wasn't a mayor. He didn't run for city council. He's not a glad-hander. You know, he goes out for drinks with the guys obviously. So, he hasn't had that throughout his life. So it's been a difficulty for him. Also he saw what happened to his father who said I was brainwashed by the generals in Vietnam. So he wants to be very careful to be scripted. He hasn't done a lot of interviews as you noted, but when he does go out there sometimes it causes problems when he gets off the script.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Norah, where does this go now? Once-- when will the White House start getting into this?

NORAH O'DONNELL: It's a great question. I think that they are going to sit and wait and see how long Newt Gingrich can last. Newt says he's going all the way to Tampa, but if Newt is still in it, I think they'll pull back. So you've got super Tuesday on March 6. I think it's the end of March or April before we see President Obama launch his full campaign-style swing where he really engages with Mitt Romney by name. We saw the President dying this week. I think to take Mitt Romney on not by name, but he drew contrast with him on housing. He drew contrast with him on the auto industry and he even sort of offered a slight attack when Romney made that gaffe about not caring about poor people. So clearly the campaign is up and running, but the President has yet to directly engage with Mitt Romney.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And is there a possibility there might be a debate added this month, John, that's clearly what Newt Gingrich wants?

JOHN DICKERSON: Oh my gosh, he would love that, but the Romney campaign has gone back into that kind of careful mode again. They don't want to debate, although he has done-- did quite well. We should remember he did well in a lot of these debates and in the last two in Florida. So, but-- but--

BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): (indistinct) debate coach because apparently the campaign thought he was getting too much publicity.

JOHN DICKERSON: He didn't want-- didn't want to get him to get too much credit, but, you know, I think a debate would be nice for us. I don't think it's going to happen.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Okay back in a minute with some final thoughts.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: Finally today, I have a confession here. My expertise in Roman numerology goes to about twenty. Once we go beyond double X, I have no idea what number we're talking about so I couldn't tell you how many Super Bowls today's game will make, but like a good part of America, I will be watching this one at least off and on. I have been known to nod off in front of the TV on a Sunday evening. So I may miss a play or two. I've always thought that the benefit of sports is that no matter how passionate we become about our favorite team, none of it really matters. Today's game will have no impact on the price of bread or the search for a cancer cure. But it does give us a break. We can put aside worries about things that do matter and focus on something that doesn't. Doctors say that's good for us. Changing the subject rests the brain and recharges the batteries. The trouble is sports are no longer the only option to worry about something that doesn't matter. As I've been watching the breakdown in our political system, Congress's inability to do anything and the growing disconnect between our campaigns and the country's real problems, I have to wonder once all this is over, will any of it matter anymore than who wins the Super Bowl? There is one difference. The state of our politics still keeps me up nights. By the time, the Super Bowl is over, I'm usually sound asleep.

Back in a minute.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: That's all the time we have for today. Thank you for watching FACE THE NATION. We will see you next week.

ANNOUNCER: This broadcast was produced by CBS News which is solely responsible for the selection of today's guests and topics. It originated in Washington, DC.