"Face the Nation" transcript: February 12, 2012

Below is a rush transcript of "Face the Nation" on February 5, 2012, hosted by CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer. Guests are Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul, Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell and White House Chief-of-Staff Jack Lew.

FOSTER FRIESS: A conservative, a liberal, and a moderate walked into the bar. The bartender says, hi, Mitt.

BOB SCHIEFFER: As conservatives raised doubts about whether Romney was one of them, he set about to change that.

MITT ROMNEY: My path to conservatism came from my family.

I was a severely conservative Republican governor.

I know conservatism because I have lived conservatism.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Will it work? Is Romney's campaign back on track? We'll ask Ron Paul who came very close in Maine.

REPRESENTATIVE RON PAUL: The revolution is only beginning.

BOB SCHIEFFER: But is the long race hurting Republican chances this fall? We'll ask Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell. And we'll bring in the White House Chief of Staff Jack Lew for the latest on the war in which the President finds himself with the Catholic Church.

This is FACE THE NATION.

ANNOUNCER: From CBS News in Washington FACE THE NATION with Bob Schieffer.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And good morning again. And welcome to FACE THE NATION. First to the campaign, yesterday, Maine weighed in on the Republican presidential race. Mitt Romney ended up just edging out Ron Paul who joins us this morning from his district in Clute, Texas. Congressman, you made a long flight to be with us this morning from your home state. Thanks for joining us.

REPRESENTATIVE RON PAUL: Thank you. Good to be with you.

BOB SCHIEFFER: I-- I want to ask you something. You came very, very close to beating Mitt Romney in Maine yesterday. Our estimate is he's going to get eight delegates there; you're going to get seven. But I know this is one that you really wanted to win. Where do you go now?

REPRESENTATIVE RON PAUL (Republican Presidential Candidate/R-Texas): Well, you know, our numbers on the delegates are much different because the process has only started and we're in a very good position to win a good majority of those votes. But you know, we were a little bit disappointed last night but we were disappointed that the one county where we have done the best in the past and we were expected to do the past the best, they canceled their caucus. So we-- we did very well up there. But we're going to con-- continue to do what we do and do the very best and keep accumulating delegates.

BOB SCHIEFFER: What-- what do you see as your path now? Do you really think you can get the nomination or you are just there to get enough delegates to be a force at the convention?

REPRESENTATIVE RON PAUL: Sure. I think both. We're there to win, do our best. You know, Romney has been up and down. The others have been up and down. And I haven't been down. I keep going up. I don't really go up and down. And our numbers grow. And once they join our campaign, anybody join our campaign, becomes solid supporters and who knows what's going to happen. We live in an age where things change rather rapidly politically and economically and certainly in foreign policies, things change. So this whole ballgame can change rather rapidly.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me just ask you something. People may disagree with you, but I don't know anyone including me who doubts your sincerity or who doesn't believe that you believe what you're saying. Having said that, why do you think Mitt Romney is having so much trouble convincing people that he is a conservative?

REPRESENTATIVE RON PAUL: Well, I don't know exactly why because I think that if it comes to Gingrich or Santorum, they should suffer the same consequences. Maybe it's the type of coverage and-- and the image. But I don't think they have been vetted very well because I know them pretty well. And their records-- their records are far from being conservative. But Mitt has been a governor. He's taken these positions. But I think that all of them are rather typical of what's wrong with the country. You know, that they-- that they don't have firm convictions. And, of course, they've been rewarded. Many people are rewarded for saying, well, don't be overly rigid. Well, they are very rigid in flip flopping. Well, I might be so-called rigid in defending the Constitution. But in the past that was seen to be a negative because we weren't in much trouble. We were a very wealthy and nobody worried too much about it. But now, we're broke. And-- and now what I'm talking about has much greater appeal to the larger number of people in the country today.

BOB SCHIEFFER: So you're saying what Governor Romney's problem with conservatives is that in fact he is not a conservative.

REPRESENTATIVE RON PAUL: Well, I think he is conservative in some ways, but I think he's every bit as conservative as the other two. That's my point. You know, I don't think he's less conservative. I think if-- if the country only has the choice of those three individuals, they have to look for the person who might be, you know, more willing to look at even more conservative ideas. I mean if you are overly rigid as an interventionist as far as foreign policy and economic policy goes, they may well be worse than the person who says, well, you know, I was more liberal when I was a gover-- governor. But now I'm more conservative because I have to represent more conservatives. Well, I think the problem is-- is that all three of them have represented the same system, the same status quo in not wanting changes in the foreign policy. None of them talk about real spending cuts. None of them talk about real changes in monetary policy. So, they're-- they're not a whole lot different. So, I think it's-- when it comes down to those three is probably going to be management style more than anything else.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, talking about his governorship, Governor Romney told the CPAC convention here in Washington that he was-- the word he used was a severe conservative. I know about liberal Republicans and conservative Republicans and libertarian cons-- Republicans, but I never heard of a severe Republican or a severe conservative. What-- what is that? Do you know?

REPRESENTATIVE RON PAUL: Well, I think I share your interest in that because that was the first time I've heard that definition. So I guess Mitt will have to tell us exactly what it means. So obviously he means he's-- he's a serious conservative. And he was trying to defend himself or portray himself as such. But I don't know exactly what he was meaning by that.

BOB SCHIEFFER: There-- there seems to be kind of a lack of enthusiasm this year. I mean your people-- I'll give you-- I'll give you your due. Your people come out and they seem committed to you. But I don't see that kind of enthusiasm elsewhere in this field. Why-- why do you think that is?

REPRESENTATIVE RON PAUL: Well, I don't think the other candidates are offering a lot-- lot of change. I think one of the most disturbing thing, well, a couple of things the Republicans ought to be disturbed about, that they do not-- other than myself they're not appealing to young people. And another thing was that twenty percent of Republicans now are considering that they might, you know, either just stay at home or vote for Obama. And they are staying home from the primaries. So that means they're not offering, you know a real alternative. I think when people hear my message they get excited about it because, you know, it makes sense. You know, a lot of people come and say, you know, what you're saying just makes common sense, you know, why do we keep getting involved in these wars? What's this idea that you need money, you just print it, you know, that seems so logical. Yet, it's been ingrained in our system for nearly hundred years. Well, if you need money, spend it. Just print it and everything is going to be all right and deficits don't matter. Conservatives and liberals have taught for decades that deficits don't matter. That's what-- that's come out of both parties. But young people especially seem to, you know, get away from those clichés and say, well, we want to hear some common sense. We want to have somebody who believes in something that will obey the constitution. And that's what I find excites so many people.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you think, not knowing yet who the Republican nominee is going to be, do you think the Republicans can actually beat President Obama this fall?

REPRESENTATIVE RON PAUL: Oh, sure. They can. But I still think it's up for grabs. If they think, you know, six months ago they thought, well, any Republican could beat him, you know, I don't-- I don't think that's the case. I think, you know, the incumbent has big advantages. They have control of-- you know, they have the bully pulpit. They can-- they can do so much and-- and Obama is going to raise a ton of money, you know, one time he was bragging it. He was going to raise a billion dollars. But now he's going with the Super PACs. So money does talk and he has the intention, so any Republican who thinks he's a shoe-in has-- should have another thought coming.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, let me just ask you this quickly because I got to wind this up. Do you think Mitt Romney, if he's the nominee, can beat Barack Obama?

REPRESENTATIVE RON PAUL: Yeah, I do, I do. I think I could beat him too. And I think, I have-- I have appealed to some of those Democrats that he doesn't have because, you know, I don't know if anybody noticed but there was a Democratic primary in New Hampshire that had I think close to three thousand write-ins of Democrats. So, yes, he-- he can beat Obama. But I think he also needs something that appeals to Democrats and independents. And if people look carefully at what I'm talking about they'll find out that my message does have an appeal across the political spectrum.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, we thank you very much for being with us this morning. Thank you so much, Congressman.

The top Senate Republican Mitch McConnell joins us now from Louisville, Kentucky. Well, Mister Leader, let me just ask you, how do you see this thing shaping down up? You just heard Ron Paul. He's not sure that every Republican could beat Barack Obama. Do you think Republicans can win this thing?

SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL (Republican Leader/R-Kentucky): Absolutely. And at some point, yeah, we're going to have a nominee. I don't think any of these caucus goers or primary voters needed any advice from me about who to pick. But we're going to end up with a very credible electable candidate in the not too distant future.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you think this campaign is divisive and is nasty as it's been, has it helped Barack Obama?

SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL: Oh, I don't think so. I mean, these-- these are always knock-down, drag-out fights. It takes four years for people to forget it, it was just like this four years ago.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right, well let me-- let's shift to something that just happened here on Friday. The President called a news conference and basically backed away from the policy that he had announced that would make Catholic hospitals and schools pay for birth control methods for the people who work for them. Catholic Church just-- just erupted in a firestorm after that was announced. The President backed away from that on Friday. Do you think that's the end of it?

SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL: Look, here's the problem, Bob. The fact that the White House thinks this is about contraception is the whole problem. This is about freedom of religion. It's right there in the First Amendment. You can't miss it. Right there in the very First Amendment to our constitution. And the government doesn't get to decide for religious people what their religious beliefs are. They get to decide that. And so when the bishops spoke, I think that's pretty good evidence that they-- that they know what their own religious beliefs are. And this compromise obviously was unacceptable to them.

And by the way, this is not just a Catholic issue. The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary is in my hometown here in Louisville. The President wrote me Friday. He has the same view that this is all about the free exercise of religion. And so this underscores just one of the constitutional problems with Obama-care. Tomorrow Senate Republicans will be filing an amicus brief that is a friend of the court brief, in the Obama-care litigation that's before the Supreme Court. That will be heard in March. It's riddled with constitutional problems. And this is what happens when the government tries to take over health care and tries to interfere with your religious beliefs.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, we'll have the White House chief of staff Jack Lew will be with us after I talk to you to give their side of it. But let me just continue on on this. Now, some Catholic organizations after the President announced that he was backing off this and was going to make the insurance companies pay for birth control pills basically. Some said, well, that was a good step in the right direction and, so forth, but the bishops came back and said they want to push now for stronger legislation to-- to extend this ban on religious institutions having to buy these things. And Senator Blunt from Missouri, one of your Republican colleagues, he wants an amendment now that would allow any group that had a moral objection to this, to not have to pay for birth control pills. Are you willing to go as far as Senator Blunt wants to go on this?

SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL: Yeah, it's not a moral objection. This is about the free exercise of religion. And under our constitution, you don't take a poll to find out how people feel about a constitutional freedom. In fact the Bill of Rights are designed to protect minority views so what the-- what the overall view on the issue of contraception is has nothing to do with an issue about religious freedom. And in this country, the government doesn't get to tell you or your organization what your religious views are. And they could well be minority views. But Bill of Rights is designed to protect the minority from the will of the majority. So this issue will not go away until the administration simply backs down. They don't have the authority under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution to tell someone in this country or some organization in this country what their religious beliefs are. Therein lies the problem.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, I-- I guess what I'm asking you though is-- is are you willing to go as far as Senator Blunt now wants to go and just write in legislation that would ban any group that had just a, quote, "moral objection," not just a religious group but just any group that had a moral objection to that? Would-- would you be willing to push that in the Senate?

SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL: Yeah. You know if-- if we end up having to try to overcome the President's opposition by legislation, of course, I'd be happy to support it and intend to support it. It would be difficult as long as the President is rigid in his view that he gets to decide what somebody else's religion is. I assume he would veto it. But yeah, we will be voting on that in the Senate. And you can anticipate that that would happen as soon as possible.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you one other question. The President sends his budget up there to you all Monday, tomorrow. What he says he can save four trillion dollars over the next ten years. Is that going to be good enough? Does his budget have any chance?

SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL: No. You know, last year I-- I had to offer his budget for him. Senate Democrats haven't passed a budget in a thousand days even though the law requires it. We only had two budget votes last year. I offered the House budget. They followed the law and had a vote on a budget. We voted on that in the Senate. I offered President Obama's budget since the Democrats didn't seem to want to develop their own budget and didn't want to vote for his. His budget was defeated ninety-seven to nothing. So probably the only budget votes we'll have in the Senate which refuses to follow the law and pass a budget of its own would be a House-passed budget and the President's budget.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right.

SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL: So I intend to offer the President's budget for him so he'll have a chance to get a vote on it.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Thank you very much, Senator.

SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL: Thank you.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And joining us now in his first appearance on FACE THE NATION, the new White House Chief of Staff Jack Lew. Mister Lew, let me just put this to you directly. Bill Daley, your predecessor, warned the President about getting into a fight with the Catholic Church if he went forward with the policy of forcing Catholic institutions to buy this birth control coverage for their employees. The vice president warned him against that. He went ahead with that policy. Is that the reason that Bill Daley left, and you're here sitting in this chair today?

JACOB LEW (White House Chief of Staff): No. Bob, good to be with you this morning. The President has two very strong principles that have been at work throughout. One is--

BOB SCHIEFFER: No, no. The question was is that why Bill Daley left?

JACOB LEW: No. He-- he announced a policy. It was going to take some time to implement. He speeded up the process. He's now implemented. The President has not changed his position. His position was, is, and has been that women have a right to full range of preventive health, including contraception and we have to do it in a way that's respectful of religious differences. We've implemented the policy. So I think the President has stuck to his position throughout.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Two-- two questions. Let me go back to my question. Is that why Bill Daley left?

JACOB LEW: I think--

BOB SCHIEFFER: Yes or no?

JACOB LEW: I think that the President and Bill Daley made clear that after a very difficult year, Bill submitted his resignation. The President reluctantly accepted it. He asked me to take his place. So I-- I think that we're-- we're now in a period of-- of, you know, the economy is growing. We've got an awful lot of things going on in the world and it's time to move forward.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, the second question, are you saying that the President came out Friday and did not change his policy?

JACOB LEW: I think what the President did on Friday was he provided the detail. The detail was always going to come. It was an important principle. It is an important principle that women have a right to get all forms of preventive health, including contraceptives. The President has always been sensitive to the concerns of institutions that have religious objections. The solution that the President announced on Friday is one that puts no institution that claims religious objection because it's related to the church, whether it's a Catholic hospital or a-- a Catholic university, in the position where they either have to pay for it or provide--

BOB SCHIEFFER: But--

JACOB LEW: --benefits that they find objectionable but women will have the right to get them.

BOB SCHIEFFER: But you're--

JACOB LEW: It's reconciling two very important principles.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You're saying the President went on national television just to announce some details? He didn't change anything in his plan?

JACOB LEW: It-- it--

BOB SCHIEFFER: Why were the Catholics objecting?

JACOB LEW: Well, it's clear--

BOB SCHIEFFER: Why did some of them after that--

JACOB LEW: Yeah.

BOB SCHIEFFER: --say, okay, that's a step in the right direction?

JACOB LEW: So-- look, it's clear that the policy that was announced at the end of January, generated quite a lot of attention. It's also clear on Friday when the President made his announcement that the Catholic Health Association, which understands both health care reform and the health care system very well, the Catholic charities, they embrace what the President announced because it did successfully bring together these two principles. There are some who want to divide and say that there's no way to come to an agreement that-- that bridges the difference.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well--

JACOB LEW: The President, I think, accomplished what he set out to do, which is bring these two principles together.

BOB SCHIEFFER: With all due respect, the Catholic bishops didn't agree. They didn't embrace it. They said we're now going to push for something even stronger.

JACOB LEW: We never expected that there would be universal acceptance of what the President was proposing. So I can't speak to one or another group that objects to it. We have broad consensus, not universal consensus that this is an approach that's right. We're going to go ahead and implement it. And women are going to have access in institutions like Catholic universities and Catholic hospitals will not be in a position that they had feared. I think that's a good resolution. It draws on the best in the American tradition.

BOB SCHIEFFER: If the Congress in some ways tries to abridge this, we're already seeing Senator Blunt saying that he will introduce an amendment now that will allow any organization that has a moral objection--religious or otherwise--to be able to, you know, that they won't have to do it.

JACOB LEW: Well, you know, we-- we don't--

BOB SCHIEFFER: The President I take it would veto something like that?

JACOB LEW: We-- we-- I'm not going to address hypotheticals. The President is going to go ahead and implement the Affordable Care Act. We've made every effort since its enactment to implement that we will continue to. I think that it's not-- it's not going to come to pass.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Mister Lew, we want to thank you very much for coming and being with us this morning.

JACOB LEW: Good to be with you, Bob.

We'll be back in a minute with the final word.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: Finally today, we don't spend a lot of time here bragging about our work and our reporters. We don't even use the word exclusive very much. We think good work stands on its own. But the work this week of Clarissa Ward and producer Ben Plesser who slipped past Syrian government guards and risked their lives to bring us a story and pictures of the revolution there deserve special mention. Day after day from inside Syria telling the story as it can only be told by people who are seeing it with their own eyes.

They're safely out of Syria. And joining us from Turkey this morning, Ben, as usual is off camera seeing these pictures get through. Clarissa, thank you very much for what you're doing, and welcome back to-- to the world here. Where there times when you thought you might not get out of there?

CLARISSA WARD (CBS News Foreign Correspondent): Certainly, there were many times when we had very serious concerns about how we would be able to get out not just out of the country but out of the City of Idlib where we were. It's been one of the hot beds of the resistance since this uprising began nearly a year ago. And while we were there, we saw tanks coming in and around the city making it very difficult to move in and out. But then beyond that, of course, you have to actually cross the border from Syria into Turkey. It is a pretty dangerous endeavor. It's also physically very demanding. It had been raining a lot the week before we made our exit which meant that the terrain was incredibly muddy. We were literally wading through canals in the dead of night. So certainly it was a very difficult exercise.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You were with these rebels. What-- how long do you think they can keep this up?

CLARISSA WARD: It's very hard to say because they're very much dependent on the very little money that they have, which is running out. They are not getting weapons or support from outside of the country. And there's really just a huge gulf between what the rebels are saying that their intentions are and what they are actually capable of doing. They told us all the time, we're going to bring down the regime. We have these large offensives planned but when you watch them actually fighting and you see the lack of organization, the lack of heavy weaponry, the lack of military training, you realize that in practice what they're doing is extremely difficult. And without some kind of support, it's unfathomable to me at least how they could continue at this pace for any real length of time.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Clarissa, we just wanted to say thank you this morning. We appreciate what you and Ben have done. Be safe now. You've made us all proud to work in CBS News.

We'll be back in a minute.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: And that's it for us today. See you next week right here on FACE THE NATION.