"Face the Nation" transcript: April 15 with Sec. Geithner, Rep. Issa and Sen. McCain
(CBS News) Below is a rush transcript of "Face the Nation" on April 15, 2012, hosted by CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer. Guests include Rep. Darrell Issa, chair of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee; Senator John McCain, ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee; and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner. A roundtable on politics including CBS News' Norah O'Donnell and the Washington Post's Ruth Marcus. Time Magazine's Toure and Georgetown University professor Michael Eric Dyson discuss the killing of Trayvon Martin.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Today on FACE THE NATION, tornadoes, sex and the Secret Service, Korean missiles, and the mommy wars, just another American Saturday night.
At least a hundred tornadoes tore across the Midwest overnight leaving death and destruction. We'll get the latest from Dean Reynolds in Wichita, Kansas.
What is going on with the Secret Service? Eleven of the best of the best who were sent to Colombia in advance of the President's visit were recalled after a report of wild parties and prostitutes. We'll get the latest on that from Congress's top investigator, Darrell Issa, of the house oversight committee.
Reports overnight of multiple bombings in Afghanistan. We'll ask John McCain, the ranking Republican on the Armed Services Committee, about that and his trip to the Syrian border.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: We think it's going to require military action on the ground.
BOB SCHIEFFER: For sure, we'll follow up on what he means by that. Then, we'll turn to the campaign, taxes, and the economy. We'll get treasury secretary Tim Geithner's response from Mitt Romney's latest charge.
MITT ROMNEY: Did you know that all the jobs lost during the Obama years, 92.3 percent of them are women.
BOB SCHIEFFER: We'll get analysis on the so-called mommy wars from White House correspondent Norah O'Donnell and Ruth Marcus of The Washington Post.
And finally, perspective on the murder charges filed this week in the Trayvon Martin case. We'll hear from Mark Strassmann, the reporter who first brought the story to national attention, and we'll broaden the discussion with Georgetown University professor, Michael Eric Dyson; author and Time magazine columnist, Toure; and CBS News legal consultant Jack Ford.
This is FACE THE NATION.
ANNOUNCER: From CBS News in Washington, FACE THE NATION with Bob Schieffer.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And good morning, again.
But it was a bad night across the middle of the country. Over a hundred and twenty tornadoes tore through the Midwest. The death count stands at five this morning, but will likely go higher. Our Dean Reynolds is joining us from Wichita, Kansas. Dean, bring us up to speed.
DEAN REYNOLDS (CBS News National Correspondent): Well, the cleanup crews, Bob, are out in the Wichita area, which was spared major damage, although there was some damage to McConnell Air Force Base, and some trailer parks in the area, but the real problem was about two hundred miles south of here in a little town called Woodward, Oklahoma, where the five fatalities were reported and where the siren transmitter was knocked out by the twister that hit shortly after midnight. So the people who had been hearing the sirens on earlier twisters were left completely unprepared, even then, though, the warning from the National Weather Service for Woodward came out only three minutes before the actual twister touched down.
As I say damage is being assessed in the Wichita area, Kansas had the brunt of these tornadoes. A hundred and twenty tornadoes, you mentioned, about a hundred of them happened here in Kansas and the storm is not over.
BOB SCHIEFFER: So that was my next question, what happens now? What do we expect now?
DEAN REYNOLDS: Well, of particular interest are the states of Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Michigan as the storm moves to the northeast from here. But, also, it has such a large footprint that areas of Texas and Louisiana are also at risk. So people in that very wide scope of land should be alert today, Bob.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Dean Reynolds who has seen a tornado or two. Thank you very much, Dean.
And we turn now to the other big story overnight. The Secret Service announced late yesterday that eleven of their agents who had been sent to Colombia in advance of the President's visit were recalled and placed on administrative leave after reports of a wild party that involved prostitutes. Our White House correspondent Norah O'Donnell is with us here this morning, along with Darrell Issa, who is chairman of the house oversight committee. Norah, I know you were talking to officials earlier this morning, what's the latest on this?
NORAH O'DONNELL (CBS News Chief White House Correspondent): Well, the White House says that the President's security was never endangered because of this. But the number one job of the Secret Service is to protect the President when he's in a foreign country and when he's in the United States and less than forty-eight hours before the President arrived in Cartagena, there was reports of wild drinking and prostitutes. The Secret Service acted very quickly. They recalled at least eleven agents. Also five members of the military may have been invol-- involved. They are also being disciplined. The issue here, according to officials that I spoke with, is concerns that there-- one, this is, you know, bad conduct, certainly immoral conduct, but also concerns about potential blackmail or espionage. If a woman can get in a secure zone that is supposed to be protected by the Secret Service and others, what does it say about security? So that's one of the big concerns.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Congressman Issa, you head up the house oversight committee, the kind of the basic investigative arm of-- of-- of the House. What can you add to this? What have you found out?
REPRESENTATIVE DARRELL ISSA (R-California/Chairman, Oversight & Government Reform Committee): Well, first of all, we think the number might be higher, and we're-- we're asking for the exact amount of all the people who, quote, "were involved." But this kind of a breach is a breach in the federal workforce's most elite protective unit, and they don't just protect the President, of course, they protect the cabinet members, the vice president, first families, candidates. So when you look at this, you realize if you can have this kind of breakdown, one that could lead to blackmail, as Norah said and so on, then we have got to ask where are the systems in place to prevent this in the future? The reason that the investigation will not be about the eleven to twenty or more involved, it will be about how did this happen and how often has this happened before? Things like this don't happen once if they didn't happen before.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, are-- are you-- when exactly did this happen? Do we know?
NORAH O'DONNELL: We do. It's about-- was about Wednesday evening when there was a report. Anyone who comes into the secure area, this hotel where many people are staying, they have to sign in their guests. This agent allegedly signed in a guest. Those guests are supposed to leave by 7 AM in the morning. When that guest had not left--this prostitute--the hotel then went, knocked on the door and there was an altercation about whether she had been paid for her services. So that's part of the altercation that went on and then the embassy was alerted and they found there were other guests that had been signed in.
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): Mister Chairman, you-- what we're hearing is at no time was the President in danger. Are you satisfied that that's the case?
REPRESENTATIVE DARRELL ISSA: No, no, I can't be. In this particular case, the President may not have been in danger, but that's-- that's to beg the whole question of what happens if somebody six months ago, six years ago, became the-- the victim of their own misconduct and is now being blackmailed? What happens when a force that historically we've heard about these wheel-up parties when the President leaves. Well, this was a pre-wheel-down. So, the question is, is the whole organization in need of some soul-searching, some changes, or in fact-- before the President, the vice president, members of the cabinet are in danger?
NORAH O'DONNELL: But, Bob, there are no reports that this involved the presidential protection division, the agents, very elite agents that protect the President or the body men that you see around the President. I think it's also worth noting that they worked on this very quickly, according to the Secret Service, they removed these eleven agents quickly, and they were immediately replaced.
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): Are-- are you-- have you decided yet whether this will require hearings?
REPRESENTATIVE DARRELL ISSA: Well, whether it requires hearings hasn't been decided, but we will participate in an over-the-shoulder investigation and some questions about how-- because the management team at the Secret Service is very stable, very nonpolitical. So the question is how are they going to make these changes in discipline and perhaps polygraphs and other items being intensified so that this can't happen in the future.
Again, Norah said it well, it's not about whether the President was in danger this time. It's whether or not you need to make changes, so the American people can have confidence in all of their workforce from the GSA to the Secret Service.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Congressman, I want to thank you for coming-- coming in on short notice--
REPRESENTATIVE DARRELL ISSA (overlapping): Thanks, Bob.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --we appreciate it. Thanks to both of you, you too, Norah.
All this during a week when North Korea defied world opinion and test-fired an intercontinental missile that exploded after takeoff, not to mention multiple bombings overnight. We're told that the American embassy in Afghanistan is in lockdown right now. There was new artillery shelling in Syria. Someone who knows about all of that, the ranking Republican on the Armed Services Committee John McCain is with us now. And thank you, Senator McCain, for
coming in.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN (R-Arizona/Armed Services Committee) (overlapping): Thanks, Bob.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let's talk about this Afghanistan deal.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN (overlapping): Mm-Hm.
BOB SCHIEFFER: It sounds pretty serious. What do you know?
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Well, I think that it's probably a manifestation that the Taliban still has some strength. I think part of it is due to the fact that we have continued to send messages that we are leaving. The President as soon as he agree, announced a-- a surge of troops in Afghanistan, announced the withdrawal date, continues to emphasize withdrawal. And that's a bad news. I think the good news is that we have gotten rid of two major issues that stand in the way of a strategic partnership agreement--night raids and the issue of detention-- detainees.
By the way, Senator Lindsey Graham has done a tremendous job in that area, which I hope would send the message that the United States is going to be there in a strategic partnership with Afghanistan in 2014 and beyond. But every time the President announced another withdrawal, his military commander said it increases the risk. That's what we're seeing here.
BOB SCHIEFFER: I want to shift to the other side of the world because you're just back from the Syrian--
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN (overlapping): Mm-Hm.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --border. You were in Turkey. You talked to people over there. Syrian army this morning, we're told is again shelling the city of Homs. When you had a little news conference over there with our Clarissa Ward, you said something-- well, I'm going to just to play what-- what you told her.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Well, I think it was a failure from the start. Most of us knew because there was no pressure for Bashar Assad to actually stop the killing. So we think it's going to require military action on the ground in order to get him to leave.
BOB SCHIEFFER: So I want to give you a chance to talk about that.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Sure, absolutely.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Are you talking about sending American troops in there?
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Of course, not. I, you know, I have said and Lindsey Graham and Joe Lieberman, and I have said continuously no boots on the ground, no unilateral action. But for the United States to sit by and watch this wanton massacre is a betrayal of everything that we stand for and believe in.
BOB SCHIEFFER: So what do we do?
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: So, we, along with other countries-- and we lead for a change, lead, not-- not lead from be-- behind but lead from in front. Over there, they are waiting for American leadership. We have announced that we are now providing them with nonlethal equipment. That doesn't do very well against tanks and artillery. We met with the free Syrian army leadership. We met with the Syrian national council. In the refugee camps, we heard the stories of the murders, of the torture, of the rape that's going on.
And Kofi Annan's proposal-- by the way, among other things-- if it were enacted does not call for the removal of Bashar Assad. And I-- the President's policy is supposed to be the removal of this-- of this massacre of-- of his own people. So we need to get a sanctuary for the free Syrian army. We need to get them supplies. We need to get them weapons. And there are many ways to get weapons to them. We showed that in Libya. We showed in Afghanistan and many other times. It's not a fair fight. It's not a fair fight. And-- and so--
BOB SCHIEFFER: But, I mean are you-- are you talking about somehow supplying them with tanks and that-- and things of that nature?
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Oh, no. But-- but antitank weapons might be very useful for them.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And what about troops on the ground?
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Of course not, of course not.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Of any kind? I mean U.N., Arab?
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: If-- I think we saw in Libya that there were other countries that did some work on the ground that are willing to do so. There's many countries in the region that are ready to act that are fed up with Bashar Assad. And we can lead and help coalesce-- coalesce a-- a group of-- of nations. And by the way, again, Russia and China continue to veto any significant effort that comes from the United Nations. Wouldn't-- how many times are we going to push that reset button? This-- it's time for the United States to lead. We went to Bosnia because ethnic cleansing was going on. We went to Kosovo because ethnic cleansing and massacres were going on and that was under President Clinton. We regretted that we didn't try to do what we could to stop the massacre in Rwanda. Well, the massacre is going on as we speak.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let's talk about another major development that happened this week, and that is the North Koreans defied world opinion earlier this year. We thought we'd made a deal with them to give them food in exchange for them dialing back on their nuclear program. They fired, basically an intercontinental missile which could be used, most people say, to put nuclear weapon all the way--
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Mm-Hm.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --to the United States' West Coast if-- if that happens some day. I mean, we hope it never does. But the thing blew up on the-- on the-- shortly after taking off. Have we handled this right?
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: For twenty years now, we've been going through this Groundhog Day exercise, confrontation followed by negotiations, followed by aid, followed by confrontation. I mean, it is-- it is remarkable how many times we have seen this movie. And, meanwhile, the North Koreans continue to make progress on nuclear-- now we're going to hear there's going to be another nuclear test. And by the way, Iranians will be paying attention to what we-- how we react to another Chinese nuclear test. And finally, the key to all of this--
BOB SCHIEFFER: North Korea.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Excuse me, as to what the North Koreans, if they do a nuclear toast. Finally, key to this again is China. China is the only country that can really exert influence over North Korea, and why they continue to prop up a regime that has a hundred and fifty thousand people literally eating grass in a gulag. So, we worry about North Korean behavior as far as development of nuclear weapons and means to deliver them.
There's also tied to Iran on terrorist acts. In the Bush administration we lifted restrictions against them in the hope that they would be coming back to the table. This is a failed policy by numerous administrations. And it-- and again, what would-- what do we suggest, make sure that China understands that this is a key issue in our relationship with China.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let's talk a little politics. I can't let you go without that.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Sure, sure.
BOB SCHIEFFER: You know Mitt Romney really stirred up some stuff this week when he said that ninety-three percent of the jobs lost since President Obama--
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Mm-Hm.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --became president were women's jobs. Tim Geithner, the Secretary of The Treasury is coming on. I interviewed him later this-- earlier this week and he had some-- he had a response to that. But do you think that there is somehow a-- obviously, the women's vote is going to be very, very important this time around, do you think there is a way for Mitt Romney to close this gap because right now it looks like-- well, most polls show that the President has about a double-digit lead over him, and-- and there's no question the women's vote is going to be crucial.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Absolutely. And I do believe that Ann Romney was right when she said the women she talks to and the women I talk to traveling around my state are interested in jobs and the economy. And I don't know the exact percentage, but there's no doubt that a lot of women have been hurt very badly in this recession, and jobs and the economy is their number one priority. Now, they have other priorities, obviously, but feeding their families and being able to stay in their homes, in my home state of Arizona is their highest priority.
Mitt Romney will be addressing those issues. And this business of going around demagoguing a Buffett Rule-- wouldn't we all know that if you're really serious, if you are really serious about fixing this economy, you'd say, okay, here's the Simpson-Bowles commission, I'm prepared to fix the tax code, clean it up, and give people a few deductions, and you wouldn't have to worry about rich people paying less taxes.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you think-- do you think Governor Romney ought to release all of his income taxes to way back?
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: I don't think it's necessary. I--
BOB SCHIEFFER: You-- he gave them to you.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Well, he gave them to me and that was confidential. So did a lot of other people--
BOB SCHIEFFER: When you were thinking about him for vice president.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: And we agreed-- we agreed with everybody. We considered that would remain confidential. John Kerry only introduced two years, Mitt Romney did, I did, two years is sufficient. And frankly, I'm not sure that's the key issue that Americans are really worried about.
BOB SCHIEFFER: John McCain, great to have you.
When we come back, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: And we welcome now to the broadcast the secretary of the treasury, Timothy Geithner. Mister Secretary, thank you so much for coming. Let's just get right to it. I think if we didn't realize before now that both sides think the women's vote is going to be crucial in this election, we certainly found it out in the last ten days. Governor Romney was on the stump with what he saw as some major headline news. Here's what he said:
MITT ROMNEY: The real war on women is being waged by the President's failed economic policies. This is an amazing statistic--the percentage of jobs lost by women in the President's three years-three and a half years, 92.3 percent of all the jobs lost during the Obama years have been lost by women, 92.3 percent.
BOB SCHIEFFER: So, is he right? Is that true?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER (Treasury Secretary): It's a ridiculous and very misleading way of looking at the recession. You know, you have to look at the whole duration of the recession. Recession started in 2008, early in that year. It was already a year in the making before President Obama came into office, and it was very damaging to everybody, to families, men and women across the country. And the early job losses were felt mostly by men because they-- they happened in construction, in manufacturing across the economy. And as the crisis intensified over the course of the way and signal for government started to feel the pressure, they had to cut back on teachers. A lot of women are teachers. So you saw the later effects as this crisis spread spread to women, too. But of course it was very damaging to families.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Basically, you're saying that is right, that most of the jobs that have been lost recently have been lost by women.
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: But it's a-- it's a meaningless way to look at the basic contours of the economy that period of time again because it starts artificially at a time when the President came into office and the crisis was still building momentum. You know, as you know, the economy was shrinking at an annual rate of nine percent, in a worst crisis since The Great Depression, when he came into office and it had lasting effects, had a lot of momentum then. And although he moved very, very quickly, to arrest the damage, stabilize the financial system, restart economic growth, and we've had four million jobs in the private sector created since job growth started again. We have absolutely got some ways to go.
BOB SCHIEFFER: You said basically-- the word you used was this is a ridiculous way.
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: This is misleading and ridiculous. It's just a political moment. You know there is the quality of political debate (indistinct) economic policy is really terrible. It's not surprising given it's a campaign. But, you know, we have to govern in facts.
BOB SCHIEFFER: I'll be back shortly with this week's commentary and then on page two more of the interview with Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: Today in every Major League ballpark across America, every player will be wearing number forty-two, Jackie Robinson's number. Because today marks the sixty-fifth anniversary of the day that Jackie Robinson stepped out of the Brooklyn Dodgers Dugout and became the first African-American to play in baseball's Major Leagues. They called it America's game but until Robinson came along, only some Americans got to play at the top level. A Brooklyn baseball executive named Branch Rickey changed that because he thought it would be good for the game. He knew there would be fierce opposition, so he picked Robinson to break the color line, not because he was the best player in the old Negro League, he probably wasn't, but because he thought Robinson had the character and the courage to withstand the hatred, the first black player was sure to face on and off the field, and he was right. Some of Robinson's own teammates refused to play alongside him, and opponents were unmerciful. But Branch Rickey was as good at judging character as he was at judging baseball talent. Robinson endured the hazing silently and went on to be the National League's Rookie of The Year. It was good for the game as Branch Rickey had hoped, but more than, that opening sports to all Americans made us a stronger and a better country.
Looking back, Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig called it baseball's finest moment. Let us never forget why forty-two was just a number until Jackie Robinson wore it. Forty-two, Jackie Robinson's number.
Back in a minute.
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BOB SCHIEFFER: Some of our stations are leaving us now. For most of you, we'll have more of our interview with Secretary Geithner and discussions on the mommy wars and the Trayvon Martin case. We'll talk to the reporter who first brought it to national attention.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: And we're back now with page two of FACE THE NATION, and more of my interview with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner. Here's what he told me. When I asked him where he thought unemployment would be on Election Day.
TIMOTHY GEITHNER (Treasury Secretary): Well, if the economy continues to gradually strengthen like it's been doing, then the unemployment rate will be lower and more Americans will be back to work. You know, growth is-- it's-- it looks pretty broad-based. Most of the available evidence has been pretty encouraging. But, you know, we still live in a dangerous, uncertain world. Europe is still going through really tough economic crisis and Iran is still a risk factor in the oil markets. Those things could hurt us still. But if you look at the economy as a whole against all the available evidence, not just the job growth, you're seeing pretty encouraging signs of resilience. You know, you see manufacturing pretty strong, energy very strong, agriculture quite strong, hi-tech very strong, exports pretty strong. And those are encouraging things but we've got a long way to go, lot of work to do and we should be working together to make the economy stronger.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Would you, I mean, would you put a number at where you think it will be or--
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: I-- I wouldn't.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let's talk about the plan that the President says that anybody, the so-called Buffett rule, anybody who makes over a million dollars a year should pay at least the thirty percent in income taxes. You know, people on the other side, the Republicans, even one independent analyst told us that this could actually wind up hurting the economy by stifling investment and growth, that this is going to discourage people from starting up new businesses because basically what it is is raising the-- the capital gains tax and raising the tax on-- on investments. How do you respond to that?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: No-- no credible basis for that argument, in my judgment, if you just look at the economics of it. And let's-- let's talk about the substance-- merits of that argument. You know, we face a lot of challenges still as a country. We have to get the economy growing, repair the damage from the crisis, get more people back to work. And we've got to make sure we put in place a balanced plan to bring down our long-term deficits. As part of that, we're going to have to cut spending across the government. You know, we've already cut-- committed to cut two trillion dollars in spending. But that going-- only goes part of the way.
We need to go further, do more with less across the government. But we do not see a feasible, economically sensible or fair way to do this and still preserve room for investments in education and infrastructure, help protect the safety net, help strengthen Medicare for seniors without asking the richest Americans to pay a somewhat larger share of their income in taxes. And-- and we think the most effective way to do that is to limit their ability to take advantage of deductions and exclusions, and that's what this rule would do. And I don't think there is a plausible path to tax reform, not a plausible path to fiscal reform that doesn't recognize the reality that we cannot afford to extend these tax cuts for the most fortune Americans. We just can't afford to do it. We can't afford to borrow to do it anymore, and we have to preserve room to these other priorities. And as part of that, again, we're going to propose to raise a modest amount of additional revenue from the most fortune Americans.
BOB SCHIEFFER: You know, the truth is, you and I both know that this has absolutely no chance of passing the Senate and even less chance of passing the House. Isn't it just kind of a publicity stunt to get the Republicans on record as being against it?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: I know, I've heard that concern, but I don't understand it. I mean, just because they oppose this doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do and we're going to keep pushing for things that are--
BOB SCHIEFFER: No, I mean to say it was-- was or wasn't the right thing to do. I'm just saying (indistinct) on the Senate.
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: Remember they fought us-- remember, they fought us on payroll tax? That was the right thing to do. They're resisting funding infrastructure, that's the right thing to do. They've resisted all the things we do to take the economy out of the crisis, and restart economic growth. Those were the right things to push for. If we don't push for things that make sense, then we're not governing. That's our responsibility in this case. And again, you're going to find broad support for this across the American people because there is no other way to meet the broad challenge of the country.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Did you actually hold out some hope that this would pass this year?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: Oh, I certainly hope it will. But, you know, it's-- I know it's a political moment. It's a tough thing to do. But, you know, extending unaffordable tax cuts for the most fortune Americans is not a popular thing to do. It's not a fiscally responsibility-- responsible thing to do. It's not economically necessary thing to do. So, you know, our hope is we make the case, we are going to keep pushing it, we did that in the economy across the board, even if we face continued opposition from the President's opponents.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Mister Secretary, thank you very much. It's always a pleasure to have you.
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: Nice to see you.
Bob schieffer: Are you planning to stay past the first term, by the way?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: You know the President asked me if I would stay, and I said I'd stay till the end of the first term.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And that's it?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: And that seems like the right amount of time for me.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, thank you very much for being with us.
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: Nice to see you.
BOB SCHIEFFER: So he's out of here. Actually, we taped that on Friday.
We want to bring in Washington Post editorial writer Ruth Marcus now, and our own Norah O'Donnell is back because I want to talk to you both a little bit about this whole mommy wars thing that kind of cropped up. It was very interesting to me when-- when, you know, Mitt Romney made that remark, and then-- and then we had Hilary Rosen coming back from the Democrats talking about Ann Romney, and said she'd never worked a day in her life. The interesting thing to me was that I think the Obama people jumped on Hilary Rosen before-- before the Romney people could get to her because they really wanted to separate themselves from that remark because they know how important this women's vote is going to be. What about it, Ruth? What was your take on all that?
RUTH MARCUS (Washington Post Editorial Writer): Well, I thought it was-- actually, I wrote that, the morning that the whole thing after the night before was exploding, that one of the things that was remarkable was the degree to which David Axelrod; the campaign manager, Jim Messina; then Mrs. Obama, then the President himself did their best to distance themselves from Hilary Rosen for exactly the reason that you say. This is the mommy wars are to some extent, a silly but very silly because they're not real. Working women and stay-at-home moms face a lot of the same issues and stresses. But they are such a sensitive subject they wanted to say Hilary who? Hilary who? And I thought that was a little silly, especially the suggestion that it was illegitimate for her to talk about Ann Romney because I'm sorry. The candidate appointed her his official ambassador to the strange foreign land of women. So it's fair to ask what qualifications she has.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Norah?
NORAH O'DONNELL: Women make up fifty-three percent of the voting electorate. So women vote in big numbers, and they will decide this election. We currently don't have a gender gap. There is a gender canyon. President Obama is leading Mitt Romney by nineteen points according to one poll. Mitt Romney will not win if it continues to have that big of a canyon of support. So Mitt Romney's campaign successfully was watching Hilary Rosen and jumped on those comments to make it look like this particular Democratic advisers and others don't like stay-at-home moms. They even sort of put out this bumper sticker that says, moms drive the economy, in which they used to sort of raise money, the Mitt Romney campaign. So this was one where the Romney campaign tried to score some political points. But I don't think it's a manufactured controversy as some have called it. These controversies really pick at a scab of something that's really pulsing in the American electorate, a debate about women's rights, about women's role. We had the debate about contraception. And I think this is going to continue throughout this election because women not only make up fifty-three percent of the electorate, but they're also fifty percent of the workplace now.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Ruth, you-- you wrote today that there might be more constructive ways to wage this battle on both sides.
RUTH MARCUS: Exactly. I think that while the issue of stay-at-home moms versus working moms is a sensitive subject, the fact of the matter is that there's these fascinating numbers from Heartland National Journal Poll that show forty-four percent of working moms have taken time off not simply on their maternity leaves but at other times. I know I have during my career. So to some extent, the mommy wars are a sort of false-- false issue. Women who stay at home and women who work and men all think it's better that we overall, a significant majority think it's better that women are now part of the workforce, and we're here to stay as part of the workforce. So the real things that we should be talking about are the kinds of things that Secretary Geithner was talking about, and there are some issues of particular salience to women, social issues, contraception, workplace flexibility, violence against women act. All sorts of stuff where we really could have a useful discussion.
NORAH O'DONNELL: I actually looked this up this morning because I wanted to know. In fact, seventy percent of mothers in this country are working outside the home. That's according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. That's a very large number. So this is going to be a debate that people are talking about. But the issues are what are going to decide this election, not whether the comments that people make. Mitt Romney has called for the end of federal funding of Planned Parenthood. Some people agree with that. Some people disagree with that. Scott Walker, the Republican governor of Wisconsin, who Mitt Romney has called a hero, has quietly repealed an equal pay law. Mitt Romney has been asked whether he supports equal pay. He says yes, but he hasn't said whether he supports the Lilly Ledbetter Act, which makes it easier for women to sue on equal pay. So there is a lot of really interesting issues that I think moms who work inside the home and moms who work outside the home are going to be looking closely at.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, I want to have both of you back to talk about some more of that as we get on down the trail.
But when we come back in one minute, we'll have our panel on the Trayvon Martin case and the reporter who brought it to national attention.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: From time to time with our new expanded format, we're going to bring in the reporters who break big stories. And we begin that today, I'm proud to say, with a CBS News correspondent Mark Strassmann of our Atlanta bureau. He ran across the story in Florida in early March. It had actually happened in February that he thought deserved more than just local attention than it was getting. And he brought it to the attention of CBS THIS MORNING. Here's his first report.
MARK STRASSMANN (CBS News Correspondent): There's a family inside this quiet subdivision here both grieving and frustrated. Their unarmed teenaged son was killed here and what they can't understand is why the gunman is still free when he's admitted pulling the trigger.
He was lying right here.
MAN: Yeah.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And Mark Strassmann is with us here today. Mark, what-- what caused you to notice this? I mean, you're-- you're watching things all across the south. You ran across this story. Nobody had done much about it.
MARK STRASSMANN: Yeah, you're right. It just sat there as a sort of a local Orlando story. It was the shooting of a teenager on a rainy Sunday night. And we get a phone ball about ten days after it happened from a guy who was aligned with the family, who was a contact of ours, he is the producer Chris St. Peters in our Atlanta bureau and I. He said please take a look at this. And he described it to us. And so we-- we set up a conference call with Tracy Martin, Trayvon's father, and attorney Ben Crump. They walked us through the facts of the case, asked for the police report, contacted the Sanford Police Department. And essentially this was just a story that was crying out for a second look. And we came along and gave it one.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And, of course, you did the story and then the wire services caught on--
MARK STRASSMANN: Mm-Hm.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --and before you know it, it became the national story.
MARK STRASSMANN: Huge. Yeah.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --that we had and it was during this week, of course, that we saw the third-degree murder charge filed against Mister Zimmerman. And so we'll see where the-- the thing goes from here. Jack Ford is our legal analyst for CBS News. He's in Philadelphia this morning. I want to ask you, Jack, just from a legal standpoint, this looks to me like it might be a very difficult case to prove.
JACK FORD (CBS News Analyst): It's difficult, Bob, for the-- for the prosecution. First of all, prosecutor always has the burden of proof in any case. But here, the burden of proof is essentially multiplied because not only does the prosecution have to prove the elements of a second-degree murder, remember, there's no premeditation alleged here that would make it first-degree matter-- murder. But second-degree murder is essentially-- you wanted to hurt somebody. You didn't want to kill them, but you wanted to hurt them so badly that they die. So the prosecution has to prove all of those elements.
Plus, you introduce this-- this interesting law that the state of Florida has-- a number of states actually have them now-- the Stand Your Ground law, which essentially says you don't have to retreat on the street. They made it similar to your house, inside your house, Bob, if somebody breaks in you don't have to run out the back door. You can use deadly force to defend yourself in your house. But Florida says the same thing on the street. You don't have to retreat if there's a reasonable fear for your own safety before you use deadly force. So now, the prosecution has to deal with that combination of factors here that the defense has said that they are going to bring up. So there's a lot going to be taking place in this-- inside this courtroom if indeed, they get that far.
BOB SCHIEFFER: We want to broaden this discussion out to two men who have already spoken out for it in various form. Georgetown University's Michael Eric Dyson, who has been our guest many times on this broadcast. He's a professor and author; and Time magazine columnist, Toure. Michael, first to you. Why should we be talking about this this morning?
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, PhD (Georgetown University): Well, first of all, an egregious offense against criminal-- against justice has occurred. An unarmed young man with only skittles and iced tea in his hand is walking back to the gated community of which his father and his fianc» are at home. And he's returning home and he is assaulted and murdered. We know he's murdered. As Jack Ford just indicated, we don't know the events surrounding it, but what we do know is that we have 911 tapes of this man pursuing this young man and thinking certain things about him.
So that the collection of stereotypes that prevail, he looks like he's up to no good, he looks as if he's suspicious. Give us a cue that there's a racial animus at work here and roiling beneath the surface is a collection of viewpoints that have informed his understanding of this young man and then urges and motivates him to take action, despite the fact that the police have indicated to him that he shouldn't pursue it, which indicates to us that many white Americans, or at least non-African-American people take police orders as recommendations, whereas many African-American people take them as law.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Toure--
TOURE (Time Magazine): But to that same point, this has become like the O. J. Simpson case in that we see the racial divide, we see two Americas at work, where black America is experiencing tremendous pain because of the situation, not simply because, you know, a boy was dehumanized and his body destroyed, and then, you know, the local justice system shrugged, but then we had to scream so loud and so long just to get the powers-that-be just to take a serious look at whether or not we should have the justice system involved in this. And then we had to have Trayvon Martin and his family prove to be almost perfect Americans, right, with almost blemishless past, right, and the parents had to be strong and show that they had character and seem that they were together, so this is not another broken black family. And if we didn't have all that, then we would not be interrogating for justice in the same--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me just be the devil's advocate here--
TOURE: Right.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And say is it possible that this is tragic as it was-- that this was just a case of-- of mistaken identity. Oftentimes--
TOURE: Well, surely--
BOB SCHIEFFER: --when people have guns they make mistakes. Do you think--
TOURE: Surely it's the case of mistaken identity in that an innocent black boy who is walking home is viewed as a criminal as if being a criminal and a young black man are synonymous, which of course is not the case.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: Right. And-- and let's look at the predictability of the pattern here. It is not the case that young white men in hoodies have been assaulted or who are dressed of the inappropriate fashion. Don't forget, Bob, that dress for African-American people has always signified beyond fashion or sartorial splendor. How we dress is an indication of where we stand in society. Remember, right after slavery, black people got dressed in extravagant fashion and that caused great resentment to-- for white Americans who believed that black people were being uppity because they were trying to out-dress their status.
Now it is the case that whatever hoods we wear, sagging pants, those become part of the folklore of American racism because it now signifies to white America that this is a hood, this is a thug, and the suspicion that is cast not only on Trayvon Martin. Look at the President of the United States of America. Here is a guy who do it the right way. He went to Harvard, he's the President. Look at the-- the ready-- the-- the steady stream of racism and bigotry--
TOURE: He's threatening Jan Brewer.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: -- the- the-- the stereotypes that prevail, right, I'm afraid of him, he's a-- he's a moron, he's an orangutan, he's an animal. Look at all of that.
TOURE: And we see that-- I mean, we see that when George Zimmerman is talking to the 911 operator, he's threatening, he's on drugs, he's got his hand in his pants, ergo, he's got a gun. So-- and we see this constantly that young black men are viewed as threatening, something to be feared, on drugs, they are out of their mind, they are dehumanized quickly. And this is profiling, which-- you know, which Angela Corey noted right away. So yes, it is mistaken identity in that you're mistaking an innocent person for a criminal.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: Absolutely.
MARK STRASSMANN: The other-- that's America's history. In Sanford, their history too had been-- there have been a lot of suspicion by the minority community in Sanford toward the police department. A couple of years ago, a homeless black man had been beaten up on videotape. For three weeks nobody was arrested and it turned out the assailant was the police lieutenant's son with the Sanford PD. So there was change at the top of Sanford PD, and now here we got the new chief who is dealing with many of the same issues that the old chief had to deal with-- that is these racial tensions that have existed in this town and that is where we are today.
TOURE: And Bob--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Jack Ford, let me ask you, what happens if you get a not guilty in this case?
JACK FORD: Well, there are a number of ways that that could happen, Bob. One is that, indeed, the defense prevails on this argument, then as Michael said, we don't know what the facts are yet and it's always dangerous to speculate. But if they walk into a courtroom, and not guilty can happen in two ways Bob. There's an extra layer in the process in Florida here. Before they go to trial, George Zimmerman is entitled to a hearing in front of a judge--just judge, not a jury--and if that judge determines based on the facts that, indeed, he had a reasonable fear for his safety, and that the Stand Your Ground defense applies, that judge can throw the case out completely before it ever gets to a trial.
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): Let me ask you--
JACK FORD: So you have that possibility and then a trial also is a possibility for a not guilty verdict.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you think there's a possibility that they may, as they say in court, plead him down? They charged him with a murder charge and-- and if he would agree to a manslaughter charge, you know, then-- then it wouldn't be a jury-- it wouldn't go to the jury?
JACK FORD: You know, they-- they certainly-- certainly have to look at it, you know, as a prosecutor you charge the highest count you think you can prove but sometimes it gives you room to negotiate. As a defense attorney you might look at this and say we've got a real good shot at a not guilty here but if I'm wrong and we lose, and you're convicted of murder two, you're going away for at least twenty-five years. That's a recipe for discussion, Bob. It gets both sides together and starts talk about is there something in between we can do here.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: But look at the role of race even in this. The collection of evidence has been infected by the virus of racism because it was presumed that Trayvon was the guilty partner here. We didn't look perhaps at the angle of the-- the bullet from the gun, a paraffin test on Mister Zimmerman, the collection of evidence itself has been so contaminated by the preexisting conditions of racism that we can't even collect enough proof to prove, perhaps, if this is the case, that Mister Zimmerman acted with reckless disregard for this young man's life.
TOURE: I mean, Trayvon has tested-- toxicology to see if he's on drugs--
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: Right, absolutely.
TOURE: And-- and George Zimmerman is not right away. But, I mean, if this is found not guilty, there will be tremendous, lasting pain, at least in black America, behind the situation. It will be a scar on the soul of America.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right, well, I want to thank all of you, and Mark, thanks again for getting this story out where people could see it.
MARK STRASSMANN: Sure.
BOB SCHIEFFER: We'll be right back with our FACE THE NATION Flashback.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: Finally we want you to know that fifty years ago tomorrow Walter Cronkite began anchoring the CBS EVENING NEWS. That is today's FACE THE NATION Flashback.
WALTER CRONKITE: Good evening, from CBS News headquarters in New York, Civil War.
BOB SCHIEFFER: The EVENING NEWS lasted only fifteen minutes in 1962, and technology was primitive. But by the next year, it had expanded to a half hour and with Walter Cronkite in the chair, a new era came to be. Walter was, even then, an old-fashioned, shoe-leather reporter who thought the best way to cover a story was to go where it was.
WALTER CRONKITE: Good evening from Paris.
Reporting from Moscow.
From the Great Wall of China.
Reporting from Madrid.
BOB SCHIEFFER: He interviewed every president of his time from Truman and Eisenhower and Kennedy to Lyndon Johnson, Nixon, and Ford, to Carter and Reagan and Bush and Clinton. He rarely expressed personal opinions, but surveys showed him to be the most trusted man in America, and when he concluded that America could not win the war in Vietnam, Lyndon Johnson said, "If I've lost Walter, I've lost the country.
WALTER CRONKITE: From Dallas, Texas--
BOB SCHIEFFER: He guided us through our worst moments.
WALTER CRONKITE: President Kennedy died at 1:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, two o'clock Eastern Standard Time, some thirty-eight minutes ago.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And he loved sharing with us the good times.
NEIL ARMSTRONG: The eagle has landed.
Whew, boy.
BOB SCHIEFFER: It was during Walter's time that television became the place where most Americans got their news and one reason for that is that they believed Walter and what he told us. Over the years, I have been asked many times, what was he really like? I always reply, he was off camera exactly the way he was on camera. There are not many of those, but he was just the way you would want him to be, our FACE THE NATION Flashback.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: Thank you very much for watching FACE THE NATION. We'll see you right here next week.
This broadcast was produced by CBS News which is solely responsible for the selection of today's guests and topics. It originated in Washington, DC.