Full transcript of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan," Oct. 27, 2024
On this "Face the Nation" broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- GOP vice-presidential nominee Sen. JD Vance, Republican of Ohio
- Former Republican Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming
- CBS News director of elections and surveys Anthony Salvanto
- Arizona Secretary of State Adrian Fontes and Secretary of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Al Schmidt
Click here to browse full transcripts of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan."
MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: The race to the White House is neck-and- neck. We sat down with vice presidential hopeful J.D. Vance. And we will have more of Norah O'Donnell's exclusive interview with presidential hopeful Kamala Harris.
(Begin VT)
KAMALA HARRIS (Vice President of the United States (D) and U.S. Presidential Candidate): And make no mistake, we will win.
(CHEERING)
DONALD TRUMP (Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate): It doesn't matter how we win. We have to win this battle to save our country.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: With just nine days until Election Day, Donald Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris are locked in a dead heat With tens of millions of early votes already passed, they're delivering their closing messages to drive supporters to the polls.
Harris is doubling down on her message that Trump is a danger to democracy.
(Begin VT)
VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: I do believe Donald Trump to be an unserious man, but the consequences of him ever being president again are brutally serious.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: With voters deeply divided by gender, former first lady Michelle Obama amplified her warning about Trump's threat to women's health care.
(Begin VT)
MICHELLE OBAMA (Former First Lady): Please do not put our lives in the hands of politicians, mostly men who have no clue or do not care about what we as women are going through.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The former president, for his part, using some of his sharpest language to date to describe the impact of illegal immigration.
(Begin VT)
FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We're a dumping ground. We're like a garbage can for the world. And every time I come up and talk about what they have done to our country, I get angrier and angrier.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And his political opponents.
(Begin VT)
FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: They're so nasty. They're so evil. They are actually the enemy of the people.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will have a new CBS poll, plus an interview with Republican vice presidential candidate J.D. Vance. Former Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who's campaigning for Vice President Harris, will also join us.
And we will get the latest from top election officials in two battleground states, Arizona's Adrian Fontes and Pennsylvania's Al Schmidt.
It's all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
It is down to the wire in campaign 2024, and this is shaping up to be one of the closest presidential contests in history. Our CBS News poll out this morning shows that Vice President Kamala Harris' edge over Donald Trump is down to just one point in the national popular vote.
The two candidates are tied in the battleground states collectively, and all those head-to-heads are within the margin of error. We will have more from that poll later on in our broadcast.
Candidates are making their final appeals to voters and pushing hard for Americans to get out and vote. But the events of Friday night, when Israel launched its long-awaited retaliatory attack on Iran, are compounding fears of an expanded Middle East conflict.
Our Norah O'Donnell spoke with Vice President Harris on the campaign trail yesterday in Michigan and asked her about the Israeli strikes.
(Begin VT)
NORAH O'DONNELL: Israel launched an attack on Iran that has raised fears of a widening conflict in the Middle East.
What is your message to Iran?
KAMALA HARRIS (Vice President of the United States (D) and U.S. Presidential Candidate): Well, first of all, do not respond. It would be a mistake.
And we are prepared to defend Israel, as we have before. We will again. But the critical point is that there must be a de-escalation in the region. And we are working through diplomatic channels and other channels to ensure that there is a de-escalation in the region.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Is there any indication, based on the intelligence that you have seen, that Iran wants to respond?
VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: I can't speak to that, but we have been very clear as the United States that they should not respond and that it would be a mistake.
NORAH O'DONNELL: What are the consequences if they do?
VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: I will keep you posted.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: You can watch more of Norah's interview with Vice President Harris tomorrow on CBS Mornings and on the CBS Evening News.
While my colleague was in Michigan, we traveled to the battleground state of Pennsylvania and caught up with the Republican who wants to be the next vice president.
(Begin VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The last time we spoke, Iran had just launched a ballistic missile attack on Israel.
SENATOR J.D. VANCE (R-Ohio) (Vice Presidential Candidate): Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And, this Friday, Israel did retaliate against Iran.
At the debate, I asked you about your position, and you said it's up to Israel to do whatever it is they think they need to do. The thing is, is that doesn't address the question of the safety of U.S. military personnel in the region, right now about 43,000 of them.
It doesn't address the question of whether the United States, as the largest weapons supplier, should have a say, as they do under U.S. law, as to how those weapons are used.
In a Trump/Vance administration, would you keep the troops we have in the Middle East, or would you pull them out, as President Trump tried to do in his first administration?
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: Well, obviously we have a lot of troops in a lot of different parts of the Middle East. I think it's reasonable to support Israel as it deals with this extremely unprovoked attack from Iran.
And let's step back a little bit here, because the reason that Iran has all of these weapons to fire at Israel is because they have a lot of money. And where do they get that money from? From the easing of oil sanctions and from the – the release of a lot of money that the Biden/Harris administration had effectively locked up.
They released it. And the promise of releasing it is that somehow it would make the Iranians a better partner, would maybe get them a little bit more on the trajectory to being a reasonable country. That's not happening. They're just using that money to buy weapons that they launch against Americans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They're tightening up some of the sanctions.
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: They're – they're – they're tightening them up. They're going in the other direction after making a big mistake.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: And that big mistake was to empower Iran financially to afford a lot of weapons that they're now firing not just at the Israelis, but also at us. And they're also arming the Houthis, and that's obviously affecting global trade.
So I think the first and biggest mistake, the thing that we need to change, is, we need to stop giving the Iranians money that they use to make ourselves and our allies weaker in the region. When we talk – when it comes to Israel specifically, look, I don't think that we should be taking assets out of the Middle East at a time when our most important ally in the region is coming under significant attack.
I don't think that would send the right message. And, most importantly, it's not just Israel. It's us. We have interests that are important in the Middle East. We obviously have to deal with – deal with the Houthis somehow, because we want to reopen the lines of global trade. Very hard to do that if we do a full-scale withdrawal,.
But if there are certain countries where maybe we shouldn't have troops, I'm willing to have that conversation. But, you know, you're talking about 14 different theaters, 14 different troop deployments.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: It's hard to make a broad stroke – broad stroke conclusion about the whole thing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it would be a specific question on Iraq, since the Biden administration said 2026, the year you have to make a decision on troops. Do you have a view on that at this point?
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: On Iraq specifically?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: No, I mean, look, I think we need to look at the situation. We obviously need to have a conversation with our – our allies in Iraq and obviously recognize, where – what is the direction of Iraq?
Are they becoming more and more allies of Iran? Are they becoming a little bit more of a good partner in the Middle East? So, it's – it's hard to say what we're going to do two years down the road, because we're not – we don't know what the world is going to look like two years down the road.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Staying on national security, as you know, the FBI and the director of national intelligence on Friday said Russia is behind a fake video that is circulating of someone tearing up ballots in Pennsylvania, the state we're sitting in right now.
They assess Russia will release more media like this in the coming weeks. What price should Moscow pay for trying to manipulate American voters?
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: Well, look, I think all – a lot of countries are going to try to manipulate our voters. They're going to try to manipulate our elections. That's what they do.
I think the bigger question is, what is in our best interest vis-a-vis Russia, not what price Russia should pay for putting out social media videos. And I think what's in our best interest vis-a-vis Russia is, in particular, for them to stop supporting the Iranians as the Iranians engage in acts of aggression.
And I think, when it comes to Europe, it's important for the killing to stop in Russia and Ukraine. I don't think that we should set American foreign policy based on a foreign country spreading videos on social media. I think we should set American foreign policy based on what's in our best interest as a United States.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You don't consider that election interference and crossing a red line?
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: I think it's bad. I think it's bad.
But social media posts and social media videos, Margaret, you want us to go to war because the Russians made a ridiculous video or paid for it?
MARGARET BRENNAN: But there are options other than war, as you know, sanctions, other measures. I mean, that doesn't…
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: Well, but – but this – this raises a difficult question, Margaret, because every – everything…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Manipulating voters, that's part of our democracy.
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: Everything that we've tried, a lot of the sanctions that we've tried, they've gone off like a wet firecracker. We promised at the beginning of the Russia-Ukraine war that we would engage in financial nuclear war against the Russians.
Biden administration, Harris administration officials talked about how our sanctions would cripple their economy. They didn't. And so we have to be realistic about what America can accomplish, compare it against our national interests and just be smart about this.
I don't think that we should overreact to anything. What we should do is encourage our fellow Americans to be careful. Don't trust everything that you see on social media. And, of course, we should push back where appropriate. But that's the big question, is, what is an appropriate response to a country making social media videos?
I'm not going to make a commitment to that sitting right here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you have full confidence that the state of Pennsylvania and the election officials here are administering this election fairly? Do you foresee litigation in this state?
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: Look, I think that they're doing a good job. I think that they're doing a better job than they were in 2020.
And, most importantly, I think most Americans are seeing, whether it's voter I.D. in places like Wisconsin or Georgia or a little bit of tightening of the regulations around signature verification in places like Pennsylvania, that I think our elections are in a pretty good spot in 2024.
Obviously, if something comes up – we don't know what the future is going to hold. If we see evidence, for example, of an illegal alien casting a ballot, yes, we're going to challenge that in court.
But seeing what I – what I see right now, 10 days out from the election, Margaret, I think Pennsylvania is in a really good spot. I think we're going to win the state, and I think Pennsylvanians, Republicans, Democrats, independents, should have confidence in the elections here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: At a minimum, would you call on Moscow to knock it off, to not post videos like this in the coming weeks?
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: Well, of course. I would call them to knock it off. But this is not a schoolyard. I call on Moscow to knock it off, are they actually going to do it?
We need to have a real, serious conversation with the Russians, but also with ourselves, about what tools of diplomacy and statecraft we have to dissuade the Russians. So, yes, I condemn the Russians for funding fake social media views, but I don't think that my job as a statesman, as a person who wants to be the next vice president of the United States, is to go engage in saber-rattling.
My job is to figure out how we can best respond to these threats. And, unfortunately, thanks to Kamala Harris's leadership, we're in a much weaker space vis-a-vis Russia than we were 3.5 years ago.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about polling and where we are in this campaign.
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney called you and Donald Trump misogynistic pigs. She urged voters to look at what you have said in the past.
And she said of you personally – quote – "You've got a real women problem."
Do you think your ticket has a women problem?
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: No, I don't think that we do, but we have to make our best case to women and to men as well as we can.
And, of course, women and men are going to decide where the chips ultimately fall. I think it's a more interesting reflection of Kamala Harris's campaign that, at this late stage, she's not talking about how she can lower the price of groceries, because she raised the price of groceries. She's not talking about how she can lower the price of housing, because her policy saw a 40 percent increase in the cost of housing.
She's going to Michigan with Liz Cheney, the person whose father is responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent Arabs and tens of thousands of innocent American troops, and saying, effectively, that, if you elect me, I'm going to have the foreign policy of Dick and Liz Cheney.
I don't think that message is going to fly in Michigan. I don't think it flies in Pennsylvania either.
MARGARET BRENNAN: On the topic, though, of – of how the campaign is doing, our CBS polling shows a significant gender gap here; 40 percent of women say the Trump campaign is paying too much attention to men's concerns; 56 percent of women say the Trump campaign is paying too little attention to women's concerns.
You say one of your top advisers is your wife, Usha.
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: Yes, the top adviser.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What is she – so, what is she telling you? Because the data says you do have a women problem.
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: Well, what she's telling me is, we got to make the case to women as well as we can, and ultimately trust in the wisdom of those women to make a determination about what's in the best interest of their family.
All I can say to women voters, and frankly, to men voters too, but to all Americans, is, I think that Donald Trump is the person who's going to lower the cost of groceries. I know that Donald Trump is the person who is going to secure the southern border. Donald Trump has a plan to open up American energy, to lower the cost of goods and to make our neighborhoods and communities safer.
I know a lot of women care a lot about the safety of their communities. What does it say about Kamala Harris' leadership that violent crime has gone up? What does it say about the fact that fentanyl overdose deaths have increased under her leadership? I think that we can make a good case to women, but I'm not going to tell them who they have to vote for.
I'm going to try to persuade them. The voters are ultimately going to decide.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You took a vow, first as a Marine and then as a United States senator, to protect and defend…
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: Of course.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … the Constitution of the United States of America.
Can you assure the American people that you will do everything you can to stand by that and to make sure that President Trump abides by the Constitution?
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: Of – of course.
But I don't worry about Donald Trump. I think that Donald Trump believes in the Constitution. It's why he's running for president a third time, is because he's worried that Kamala Harris has broken the greatest economy in the world, and Donald Trump will fix it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He's talked about suspending it, the January 6 events. I don't have to retread the territory you well know about challenging the certification of the election.
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: I – I – I – I think that Donald Trump believes in the American Constitution. I know he does. I have seen it in his actions. I have talked to him about it.
But you asked about me. And, personally, yes, my first loyalty is to the American people and to the United States Constitution. I think the best way to serve loyally to those people and to that Constitution is to get us back in a place where Americans can afford to live a decent life again.
That's why we're running the campaign focused on the affordability of goods, American manufacturing – it's a big deal here in Erie, Pennsylvania – and certainly on securing that southern border.
I think the threats to our Constitution, Margaret – and I do think they're real. The threats to our Constitution come from Kamala Harris, who's saying that she wants to censor Americans, instead of persuade them.
Whether you agree with me or Donald Trump or disagree with us, we believe in the First Amendment. We're going to fight for your right to speak your mind and think whatever you want in the United States of America.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Vance, you have a busy schedule. Thank you.
SENATOR J.D. VANCE: Thank you. Appreciate it.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation will be right back in one minute.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're back with former Wyoming Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who has been campaigning for Vice President Kamala Harris.
Welcome back to Face the Nation.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY (R-Wyoming): Thank you. Great to be with you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I have a number of questions for you, but I do want to start where I left off with Senator Vance.
He responded to your characterization of him as a misogynistic pig by attacking your father and his role in the Iraq War. Donald Trump has also done so. Do you care to respond?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: Look, I think that they are doing everything they can to try to distract from the fact that the people who know Donald Trump best, including retired Four-Star Marine General John Kelly, who is a Gold Star father, have come out and said very clearly and very directly to the American people that Donald Trump is not fit, that Donald Trump himself standing near the graves of our fallen service members says things like they are suckers and losers.
We all watched on January 6, when Donald Trump sat in the dining room next to the Oval Office for hours, for hours, and watched people with his flags and his name, a mob he had sent to the Capitol, he watched them brutally beat police officers and invade our Capitol.
His own vice president is not voting for him. His chiefs of staff aren't voting for him, secretaries of defense, national security adviser.
So, you know, this is completely unprecedented. I don't think, certainly in my lifetime, probably in American history, have you had a situation where so many of the top officials of the former president are saying they won't vote for him.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: And I think, you know, we're going to hear continued assaults and rhetoric from Donald Trump and J.D. Vance to try to cover that up.
But, at the end of the day, it's desperation. The American people are – are much smarter than that and – and they see through it, I'm confident.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Given how outspoken you have been, are you concerned about your personal security if Donald Trump wins this election, as he well may do?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: Look, first of all, I am very confident that Vice President Harris is going to win this election. It's what we're seeing all across the country, the kind of absolutely unprecedented coalition that's coming together to support her.
You know, we're all going to run through the tape, and nobody is overconfident here, but I do believe she's going to be the next president of the United States.
And I think that Donald Trump has ushered violence into our politics in a way that we haven't seen before. Any violence is unacceptable. Certainly, the assassination attempt on the former president was completely unacceptable and obviously should never have happened.
But when you have a situation where, you know, Donald Trump suggests that people who disagree with him ought to be put before military tribunals, that the former chairman of the Chief – Joint Chiefs of Staff should be hanged for treason, and his running mate, you know, doubles down on it, you know, I think that – that tells you that you're dealing with a man who doesn't have any conscience.
And the people who worked most closely with him know that. And so I'm confident that he's going to be defeated next week.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We're seeing a really interesting gender divide in this election. And I know you've been appealing to people to vote their conscience, and you said they never have to say a word to anybody about who they actually do vote for.
Yesterday, former first lady Michelle Obama said something similar. Take a listen.
(Begin VT)
MICHELLE OBAMA (Former First Lady): If you are a woman who lives in a household of men that don't listen to you or value your opinion, just remember that your vote is a private matter.
(CHEERING)
MICHELLE OBAMA: Regardless of the political views of your partner, you get to choose.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: I have to say, it's a little striking. It sounds a little 1950s or 1970s.
Are you really hearing from female voters that they're afraid to tell their spouses who they're voting for?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: Yes, you know, what we're seeing is so important and so interesting. You've seen a real coalition of women who are pro-life and pro-choice come together to support Vice President Harris.
And that's because we've seen some of the – just the draconian laws that have been passed in places like Texas and North Carolina that are preventing women from getting lifesaving health care, preventing women from getting medical care that you know will ensure that, if they have a miscarriage, that they can have babies again, just fundamentally a set of circumstances that can't be maintained.
And so you have a growing coalition supporting Vice President Harris. You certainly have had many Republicans who are speaking out to endorse her, which, again, is unprecedented. And there are also many Republicans and independents who are saying, look, you know, I don't want to bring the wrath of, you know, Donald Trump and J.D. Vance down on me, so I'm going to vote my conscience, I'm not going to talk about it.
And we, you know, obviously, encourage that. Your vote is a secret vote. You should do what you know is right. And – and I think you're going to have, frankly, a lot of men and women who will go into the voting booth and will vote their conscience, will vote for Vice President Harris. They may not ever say anything publicly, but the results will speak for themselves.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It's an interesting coalition you're talking about in terms of the pro-life movement and where we are now. And you're talking about a coalition here.
How do you explain to someone at home who may agree, as you do, with the pro-life position that abortion is murder, and reconcile that with putting that conviction aside and voting for Vice President Harris? How did you do that?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: Yes, I don't think it's about putting convictions aside.
I think it's about looking at the reality on the ground of what's happened since Roe was overturned. And, again, when you have a place like Texas, where women need lifesaving care, you know, perhaps it's a woman who's had a miscarriage and she may be bleeding out, and she cannot get a DNC, she can't get the care that she needs, because there's concern that maybe that care has been criminalized.
And, you know, you have a situation also in Texas where the attorney general is suing, literally, he's suing so that he can see the medical records of women who have sought abortions. And, you know, this is coming from people who support Donald Trump, and Donald Trump won't let anybody see his own medical records.
So, the idea that – that, you know, you've got those kinds of policies and state laws being put in place is really mobilizing women to say, look, you know, you don't have to abandon being pro-life, but this kind of circumstance, this kind of really abhorrent situation where women can't get medical care they need, that just can't go on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think that Vice President Harris going to the Ellipse on Tuesday, as she plans to do, to make her closing argument is really the most effective one?
Because we see in our polling that, on both sides of the aisle, each party is blaming the other for undermining democracy. Why do you think that would help put Harris over the mark and help win?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: Yes, I think it's so interesting.
I think, when you – when you look at the polling, first of all, people have to remember, this is the first presidential election post-January 6. And so, you know, you've got, in fact, many of the same people who were promising a red wave in 2022 doing the same thing now. We're not going to see it now. We didn't see it then.
And what Vice President Harris has done, I have watched her do it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: I have sat next to her on the stage as she does it. She talks about a whole range of issues. She talks about grocery prices.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: She talks about women's health care. She talks about, you know, Donald Trump's tariff policies…
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: … which are massively inflationary…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: … and at the same time reminds everybody…
MARGARET BRENNAN: We've got to…
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: … you have to have a president who obeys the rule of law.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We're hitting a hard break here.
Thank you, former Congresswoman Cheney.
We will be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
With a closer look at our new CBS poll, we're joined by our executive director of elections and surveys, Anthony Salvanto.
Anthony, great to have you here.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Good to be here. Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Good morning.
Well, we have seen in your polling of the popular vote that this is neck and neck. As we know, it comes down to the magic 270, the electoral count. And those battleground states that have those hefty electoral votes with them are really what are being focused on by the campaigns.
In your numbers, those are also dead even.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Yes, this is as tight as all this has ever been. Big picture, the national vote is everyone's voice, of course, and that all counts. But in that race to 270, for electoral votes, it's going to come down to a handful, we think seven battleground states. Across them it is exactly even. Hasn't really moved much over the course of this campaign. The individual states themselves are all close. I do think it's curious, this year, more than others, the national vote is tracking very closely with those battleground states. It could mean we've just got a very nationalized election here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have, through this election, particularly since Vice President Harris moved to the top of the ticket, talked about the divide along gender lines. What are you hearing from voters?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: So, that gender gap, which is now, in our polling, the largest we've seen yet this year, is driven by a couple of things, I think, starting with people's views on larger societal factors. And we asked people, what do you think about U.S. efforts to promote more gender equality? When people say those efforts, they believe, have gone too far, and that's a little more men who say that, they're voting overwhelmingly for Donald Trump. When people say those efforts haven't gone far enough, and many women say that, they're voting overwhelmingly for Kamala Harris.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Those numbers are pretty stark.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: They really are. And it's one of the biggest splits in the - it's a reminder that the gender gap isn't just a cross tab on a poll report, it's people expressing views about the candidates, as well as the larger direction of society, frankly.
And then the other part of this is, when they do evaluate the candidates, you see some differences. For example, you see more men saying they believe Donald Trump would be a strong leader, although when you ask them they say it's not necessarily because he's a man. But at the same time, look at this measure we've been following all throughout this campaign, which is, who has the mental and cognitive health to serve as president. Folks will recall we were tracking that when Joe Biden was the nominee, and his numbers dropping on that was important. OK, now Harris has the advantage on that. And particularly among women who are much more likely to say that only she has the mental and cognitive health. So, it also affects the views of the candidates as well, these splits between men and women.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Which is kind of a remarkable question to begin with in and of itself. But you have been talking about, for a very long time, the - the huge factor of the economy as a perception of the economy is for Donald Trump supporters. The Democrats are putting reproductive healthcare front and center. Is that bet working for them?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Well, it motivates the Democratic base. And that's important because we may have a very turnout-determining election here, right? But at the same time, I do notice that the number of people who say abortion is a major factor in their vote has been fairly steady throughout this campaign, hasn't really gone above the low 50 percent. And one might think that if the Democrats were getting more traction on that, that those numbers would go higher. And, frankly, they haven't.
At the same time on the economy, you know, Kamala Harris had been trying to separate herself from Joe Biden a little bit. And we do see in the polling more people start to say they're evaluating her on her proposals. She's cut a little bit into Donald Trump's advantage on what really is a central question, are you better off or would you be better off financially under which of these candidates. Trump still has the edge on that, though. She hasn't cut quite far enough in it. And so he maintains that edge for people who say that the economy is their top issue.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Rhetoric has been extremely heated throughout this campaign, but both of them are now arguing the other is the threat to democracy itself. How are voters reacting?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: So, a couple of things. One is, you see each side does think the other one is a threat and each side does think that democracy is under threat, albeit for different reasons, number one. Number two though, you do see Donald Trump has often gotten a proportion of voters who feel that the whole system is broken. And I think that's really central to understanding part of his appeal. So, that hasn't changed much.
What you do see, and you can ask people how they want the government to work overall. And by and large voters say they'd like the two parties to negotiate and cooperate. There are some hardcore partisans who'd just like their party to run everything. But there is always a component, and there is here, of people who say that they want one strong leader to cut through all of this. It happens to be a little more among younger voters, a little more among young men. And we do see more of Donald Trump supporters saying that relative to Kamala Harris supporters.
This, for a larger context, does happen sometimes in democracies, if you have a decline of trust in institutions, which we have also seen. It's not the majority, but that view is out there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And that allows itself to have more manipulation of perception and what voters are thinking. It's a - it's a dangerous thing you just put your finger on. And that's why I want to, Anthony, set some expectations here on clarity. People remember days when, on election night, it was clear who the winner was. In very tight races, it's not going to be clear and it may take some time. U.S. intelligence is warning there are bad actors looking to manipulate how long it may take and to manipulate your mind.
What expectations should we have for the vote count?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: The first word is patience. You're right that it will take a while for all our expectations. A lot of these battleground states, it's not just that they're close, it's that they've got millions of votes to count. And especially some of the larger counties may take them late into the night. It may very well go another day, another couple of days before all those get counted. We may need to see all of those votes before we can determine who's won. So, patience is the watch word here.
But the other thing is, we are at CBS News going to show you how this unfolds all along. I am going to show you from the data desk where the outstanding vote is, what's been reported, what the implications of all of it are in real time so that you can watch it unfold, along with us. And I think that will be important. You don't want to just see a few votes get reported and think that's the way it's all going to go. You really have to have that patience.
I would add this, most Americans may very well cast their ballots before Election Day, right? We've got mail vote. We've got early in person. That will be over the next week, Margaret, kind of the abstract art painting of the political world. People are going to see whatever they want to see in that. We don't always know exactly how those people voted. They'll look at how many older people, younger people have voted, how many registered Democrats, registered Republicans. But since 2020 there have been shifts in the people's decisions about how to cast their ballots.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: And we don't know how that will play out yet. So, I urge patience there as well over the next week. And we'll have those expectations about what the early vote means once we get closer to Election Day.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're going to speak on this program with the secretaries of state to understand how they are administering those elections and how quickly each state - each one's different - will know the results.
Anthony, thank you.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Turn now to the top election officials in two battleground states, Arizona Secretary of State Adrian Fontes joins us from Phoenix, and secretary of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Al Schmidt joins us from Harrisburg.
Welcome. And I appreciate the two of you having this conversation in a bipartisan manner.
You are in non-partisan roles as the top election officials in your states. So, very quick question to both of you, Secretary Fontes first, will you commit to certifying the election results even if the winner is of the opposite political party?
ADRIAN FONTES (Secretary Of State, Arizona): Yes. Without question. That's our duty. And I believe all of my colleagues across the country would do the same.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Schmidt.
AL SCHMIDT (Secretary of The Commonwealth, Pennsylvania): Absolutely. Without any hesitation whatsoever.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Now that we've set the table on the very basics here, I want to ask you about some of the recent news. The FBI director said this past week it is incomprehensible and unacceptable that election workers have to be worried about their security. But here we are. And we know that the Department of Justice, just this past week, did indict individuals for making threats to workers in both of your states.
Secretary Fontes, one of my CBS colleagues is reporting Maricopa County is significantly increasing security and using drones, using fencing and other measures. I've read news organizations say there are going to be snipers on top of tabulation centers.
First of all, is that true? That seems extraordinary. And is that based on specific threat intelligence?
ADRIAN FONTES: Well, first and foremost, the authority and jurisdiction over the specific tabulation centers are within the counties. My office provides support for all of them. And, frankly, we don't get into the specifics when it comes to our safety and security protocols, particularly the source or frequency or nature of any of the specific threats. We are in the kind of a circumstance right now where we're taking whatever precautions are necessary to ensure, not just the security of the vote, but of all of our employees, our workers at the polls, at our tabulation centers and, of course, keeping first and foremost in mind the safety and security of our voters.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Can you say, at a minimum, whether that's increased from what you had to do in 2020?
ADRIAN FONTES: It's absolutely completely different from 2020. In fact, I remember in 2018 our greatest security threat was a rattlesnake in the parking lot at the Pinnacle Peak precinct. So, this is a radically different set of circumstances that we are dealing with. But we are prepared and we're going to have a secure election.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Schmidt, what have you had to do in the commonwealth?
AL SCHMIDT: As part of the lessons learned from the experience of 2020, the Shapiro administration organized an election threat task force that I lead, made up of federal, state and local partners in law enforcement and election administration so that if any of the ugliness returns, that we experienced in 2020, everyone will be ready.
In 2020 it was, as Secretary Fontes said, so different than before. And many of us had to scramble to figure out when threats were incoming, where do we refer them to and - and all the rest of that. Now we have open lines of communication. Everybody is very clear about what everyone else's responsibilities are. So, we'll be prepared should, again, any of that ugliness return.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Schmidt, you heard me discuss with Senator Vance the specific intelligence that the ODNI and the FBI revealed on Friday about a fake video made by Russia to trick people into believing that ballots were being destroyed in Bucks County, Pennsylvania.
How concerned are you about what U.S. intelligence has uncovered, and why do you think they're targeting your state?
AL SCHMIDT: Well, I'm - I'm very concerned. And it's - and it's clear that bad faith foreign actors are seeking to undermine confidence in our election results. And it's no surprise that they've targeted several of the so-called battleground states in Pennsylvania.
The video that you're referring to from Bucks County, to anyone who has years of experience in election administration, was conspicuously fake. But if you don't, it's - it's so easy for people to be sort of deceived by others trying to undermine confidence in our system of government. So, it's important that our counties remain vigilant, that our commonwealth remains vigilant and our federal partners remain vigilant, and to call out any of these sort of efforts to deceive our voters.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Fontes, another specific warning from U.S. intelligence was some of the mind hacking, the lies being sewn in the minds of potential voters. And one specific thing that U.S. intelligence says Russian influence actors are doing are posting allegations about the possibility of illegals, undocumented people, voting in this country. You are a border state. We have heard a number of Republican officials, including on this program, try to argue that this is a real concern. Elon Musk is arguing that and amplifying that.
What are you doing in Arizona to make sure that non-citizens are not voting in federal elections, which is already against the law?
ADRIAN FONTES: Well, first and foremost, if and when something like that happens, it is absolutely vanishingly rare. No system is perfect. And I'll admit that right off the top.
But the allegation that this is something that might turn an election or is something much bigger than it is, that's the nonsense that we are dealing with. And, unfortunately, we still have candidates, elected officials and folks with large megaphones lying. They're directly lying to the American public and they are basically playing the role of useful idiots now we know for sure to foreign enemies who want to sow distrust in our democracy. They want us to be losing that civic faith that we have in one another as Americans and dividing us further.
Again, the source for a lot of this information and misinformation, I should say, is coming from outside of the United States. It gets amplified by folks in America who are helping those folks. And that's just bad. And it's bad for our democracy. It's bad for business. It's bad for the law and education and science and everything else.
So, what I encourage folks to do is stop being a Russian puppet, look to the folks who are actually doing the work, ask them what's actually happening, and go with the truth instead of amplifying lies from foreign adversaries.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Schmidt, what are you doing to make sure that non-citizens are not able to vote, which is already against the law?
AL SCHMIDT: Well, Margaret, I was a Republican election commissioner in Philadelphia County for ten years. And I assure you, and I assure your viewers, and I assure voters that I care as much about election integrity as anyone possibly could. I investigated hundreds of allegations of voter fraud over that time. Whether it involved double voting or allegations of people voting for dead people, or non-citizens. And what that research showed time and time again was how incredibly rare it was that it occurred, and how easy it is to catch whenever there are incidents of it. There are safeguards in the system from tooth to tail to make sure that - that voter fraud in the few instances it does occur is identified, investigated, and responsibly prosecuted.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Schmidt, on Friday the Lancaster County district attorney did report incidents of voter registration fraud among a group of about 2,500 ballots. What can you tell us at this point about how many of those ballots were actually fraudulent, and what happens next? Who's behind it?
AL SCHMIDT: The county reached out to us right away as soon as they became aware of it for guidance. As far as we can see, the county is - is pursuing this investigation responsibly. The county hasn't concluded that investigation so I can't speak to the number of cases yet. We will be relying on them to make that determination and be supportive of our county partners.
As part of our commitment, I visited 67 of Pennsylvania's 67 counties, to sit down with them and make sure that if there are additional resources they need, additional equipment or anything else like that, we provide that to them so that we have a free, fair, safe and secure election in 2024, just as we had in 2020.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And it was notable in my interview with Senator Vance that he said he was confident in Pennsylvania. But when I asked about litigation, he raised the possibility of non-citizen voting and said they would be open to litigation if that were to happen.
AL SCHMIDT: Well, the good thing about our judicial system, which is really where our disputes should be settled, is it is always something of a put up or shut up moment when it comes to providing actual evidence of actual problems. And that when people are involved in litigation and lawsuits, they have to present that evidence. And I think that's why time and time again, in many dozens of cases in 2020, every one of those cases upheld that our elections were accurate, and that we're not susceptible to any sort of widespread voter fraud or anything like that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Fontes, 95 percent of all ballots cast in battleground states will be recorded on paper. However, President Trump said this on Joe Rogan's podcast about a conversation he just had with Elon Musk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He said to me, that unless you have paper ballots, it can never be an honest election. That's a big statement.
JOE ROGAN, HOST, "THE JO ROGAN EXPERIENCE": That's a big statement.
TRUMP: We should go to paper ballots. You're done by 9:00 in the evening, right? Now we have these sophisticated machine, it goes up to heaven, it goes all over the place and down and around and they say, we'll need two weeks to figure out who the hell won the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr. Secretary, do you want to set the record straight and how long will it take you in Arizona to know the results?
ADRIAN FONTES: Well, first, I'm glad that Mr. Trump agrees with the security of Arizona's elections, where we have 100 percent paper ballots and have had so in Arizona for several decades.
Number two, it's going to take us as long as it has always taken us. While we have more voters and in many cases and counties a lot more voters, the time that it takes us to process our ballots is based on doing it right the first time, not doing it quickly for news cycles or for the sake of political satisfaction. We will have official results in about 10 to 13 days, but everybody knows that the - the networks and the newspapers will make their prognostications whenever they see fit based on their math. And that's just the way it works. We're perfectly confident that we're going to have what we need, when we need it, which is when it happens, and it will be accurate.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Schmidt, how quickly will you know the results in Pennsylvania?
AL SCHMIDT: Pennsylvania is at something of a unique disadvantage in that our countries cannot begin processing mail-in ballot envelopes until 7:00 a.m. on election morning. Plenty of other states, red and blue alike, allow that process to begin days, if not weeks, in advance.
But a couple of things have changed since 2020. Counties have acquired additional equipment that assists with the processing of those ballots and ballot envelopes. They have a lot more experience than they had in 2020, which is the first time any of us encountered, in Pennsylvania, mail ballot voting in a large scale. And also the percentage of voters, while it's still widely embraced, the percentage of voters voting by mail has decreased since 2020 during that peak Covid environment.
So, there are several factors that while I think contribute to knowing results earlier, even though the law hasn't changed, but as Secretary Fontes said, it always comes down to, and has always ever come down to, how close an election is before you know who won and who lost.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Exactly. And as our Anthony Salvanto, our CBS elections and surveys director, was telling us, this is a tight one. So, we will be watching what's happening in your states very carefully.
Thank you for level-setting with all of us.
We'll be back in a moment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: America's elections are -
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here.
What a wild couple of weeks it has been.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this race continues to be a dead heat.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It is the issue of economy and inflation that is weighing the most on voters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The vote count will likely extend beyond Election Day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Major Garrett has been fact checking on the fly and in real time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the things that's hanging in the balance is whether truth matters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In an election like no other, turn to the team like none other. "America Decides," CBS News, live election coverage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you can watch CBS News on election night. We will go live from our headquarters in New York City. And we'll have our teams spread out all across the country. Join us for real time results, analysis and exclusive polling. Our coverage starts at 4:00 p.m. Eastern on CBS News, 24/7, streaming channel, and at 7:00 p.m. Eastern on the CBS television network.
That's it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week. For FACE THE NATION, I'm Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
