Full transcript of "Face the Nation" on Oct. 23, 2022
On this "Face the Nation" broadcast moderated by Margaret Brennan
- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi
- Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former FDA commissioner
- Chris Krebs and Kara Swisher
- Amos Hochstein, special presidential coordinator for international energy affairs
Click here to browse full transcripts of "Face the Nation."
MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: With just 15 days to go until midterm Election Day, both sides are making their closing arguments about why they deserve your vote.
Campaign '22 is hitting the homestretch now. With Democrats facing economic headwinds, is President Biden a drag on some Democratic tickets? House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will be here.
Plus, we will talk with the administration's senior energy security adviser, Amos Hochstein, about those stubbornly high gas prices.
Then, we will look at the surge of respiratory virus cases affecting the very young with former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb.
And we will get more on political misinformation and election security with tech journalist Kara Swisher and CBS News cybersecurity expert and analyst Chris Krebs.
It's all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
On this last full week in October, polls continue to show some incredibly tight races across the country. Can Democrats revive their stalled momentum and get their supporters to the polls, or will Republicans take control of the House and possibly the Senate?
President Biden has been on the campaign trail and Pennsylvania telling reporters, it ain't over until it's over, quoting Yogi Berra, of course.
Senior White House and political correspondent Ed O'Keefe reports.
(Begin VT)
AUDIENCE: Fetterman! Fetterman!
ED O'KEEFE (voice-over): From Pennsylvania...
LT. GOVERNOR JOHN FETTERMAN (D-Pennsylvania): Dr. Oz celebrated when Roe v. fell.
(BOOING)
ED O'KEEFE: ... to Arizona.
GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN (R-Virginia): Hello, Arizona!
ED O'KEEFE: ... Democratic and Republican candidates are making their final arguments.
BETO O'ROURKE (D-Texas Gubernatorial Candidate): There's this attack on our democracy, on the very right to vote.
ED O'KEEFE: Republicans are sticking to a message focused on the economy and crime.
MEHMET OZ (R-Pennsylvania Senatorial Candidate): This is an economic and health crisis. A doctor can help fix it. I will keep us safe, cut your taxes and protect our jobs.
BLAKE MASTERS (R-Arizona Senatorial Candidate): You think you and your family deserve better than open borders and fentanyl and double-digit crime increases?
ED O'KEEFE: While many Democrats believe a focus on abortion rights will help bring out their base.
KAMALA HARRIS (Vice President of the United States): The Republican Party have been very clear that it is their agenda to have a national ban on abortion.
ED O'KEEFE: For his part, President Biden has been touting his work to curb inflation and cut gas prices. Last week, he approved the release of more oil from America's Strategic Reserve, but denied any connection to the looming election.
JOE BIDEN (President of the United States): I have been doing this for how long now? It's not politically motivated at all.
ED O'KEEFE: Despite the president's work, many Democrats in the most competitive races don't want to be seen with him.
QUESTION: Tim Ryan in Ohio said he doesn't want you there. Warnock said -- wouldn't say. Do you think they're making a mistake?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: No, there have been 16 I have already done. And we're getting a lot more asked.
ED O'KEEFE: One Democrat who is in big demand, former President Barack Obama, who's now on the airwaves for Democrats in key races...
BARACK OBAMA (Former President of the United States): You can count on John Fetterman. Make sure he can count on you.
ED O'KEEFE: ... and plans to campaign in Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, and Wisconsin.
(End VT)
ED O'KEEFE: In the coming days, attention will focus on Pennsylvania, where Democrat John Fetterman and Republican Mehmet Oz will meet in their one and only debate.
And here in Washington, there are looming fights over raising the debt limit and future funding for the war in Ukraine, as Republicans say they will force a rethinking on those issues if they take control of Congress -- Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ed, thank you.
And we are joined now by Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi.
Good morning, and it's great to have you here at the table, Speaker.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI (D-California): My pleasure. Thank you. Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have said a lot is going to be determined by turnout. But you've heard our CBS estimates have the Republicans taking the House with 224 seats. How do you shift the momentum?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Well, let's just say, first and foremost, good morning. It's Sunday morning, 15 days or so before the election vote.
Vote -- people are already voting. We're very pleased with our early vote for our owning-the-ground initiative. I -- it's interesting to me, because, for a year-and-a-half, the media has been saying, oh, they've gone -- it's gone, the president's party always loses in the off-year.
And now we're down to the stretch. And we're down to very close races. And we feel very confident. I have been in over 20 states since Congress adjourned in the last month or so. And I see very clearly that the ownership of the ground is with us.
It's about getting out the vote. Everything else is a conversation compared to that. But, in order to do that, you have to have inspiration. You can't run on empty.
And the fact is, is that, when I hear people talk about inflation, as I heard him there, we have to change that subject. Inflation is a global phenomenon -- phenomenon.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: The E.U., the European Union, the U.K., the British, have a higher inflation rate than we do here.
It's not -- the fight is not about inflation. It's about the cost of living. And if you look at what we have done to bring down the cost of prescription drugs, to bring down the cost of -- of energy and the rest in our legislation, you will see that that has been opposed every step of the way by the Republicans, and they have no plan for lowering the cost of living or helping with inflation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Absolutely, inflation is a global problem. And it's hitting a lot of countries very hard.
But there is also that question of fiscal spending. Congressman Jim Clyburn, who serves in leadership alongside you, said the following earlier this week:
(Begin VT)
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES CLYBURN (D-South Carolina): All of us are concerned about these rising costs. And all of us knew this would be the case when we put in place this recovery program. Any time you put more money into the economy, prices tend to rise.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did you also realize at that time that the congressional spending would add to inflation? Did you see that risk then?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Well, first -- first of all, government spending does -- we had a pandemic, and that brought down unemployment from 7 percent to 3.5 percent now. It put people back to work, children back in school, inoculations in the arm, and it helped take us through that stage of the pandemic.
But let me just say that, because of people -- more people working and the rest, the national -- the deficit has been cut in half from $2.8 to $1.4 trillion. That is a big change. So, it is -- it's, yes, we had to take a step forward to solve the pandemic problem, but we did so in a way that would reduce the national deficit. And that is -- cannot be ignored.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But on things like sending, you know, those $1,400 checks, putting cash out there.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Yes, that's right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean, didn't that end up contributing to inflation? Do you have any regrets about the bills you passed and how you structured them?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: No, absolutely not, because this -- that was necessary for people to survive. Our purpose...
MARGARET BRENNAN: The risk, though, was that it was inflationary.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: But the point is, is that, when you reduce unemployment, it's inflationary. That is a fact.
When I was a new member of Congress, I was told that unemployment was dangerously low in our hearings on inflation and unemployment. Unemployment is dangerously low for what it does to inflation.
But the fact is, the point is, is that this is about helping America's working families meet their needs. And that was essential to them, less inflationary than a $2 trillion tax cut for the high end that the Republicans gave and we're still paying a price for, $2 trillion, 83 percent of the benefits going to the top 1 percent.
So we feel proud of what we've done. We feel proud of the president to help America's working families to lower their cost, and, in doing so, to reduce the deficit.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, on the issues that voters tell CBS News are important to them, abortion ranks number seven, up top, economy, inflation, crime, immigration.
Was it a miscalculation to believe that the momentum from striking down Roe vs. Wade was going to help Democrats? Why not talk more about these issues around the economy?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Well, I can just say this.
Nobody ever -- elections are about the future. They're about the economy. Everybody knows that. Nobody said we're doing abortion, rather than the economy, but it's -- it's about both.
And I can tell you that that issue is very, very provocative and encouraging people to vote across the country...
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: ... having just been there, not sitting in Washington, but while going around the country.
But I will say this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Twenty-four percent of likely voters, according to our polling, are motivated by this issue of Roe.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: And that's a good number.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you need them to win, right?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: That's right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They need to show up.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: But let me -- yes, let me say this.
Here's what happens. Let's just talk about what this comes down to in these races and why I'm optimistic about it. I mean, it's a fight. These are close races. It's like the Olympics. And a half-a-second, you can be gold, silver, bronze, or honored to be an Olympian. So these are tough fights.
But that's what they are. And it's a big change from what the media was -- media thread of, oh, they can't possibly win. No, we can possibly win.
But here's the thing. In these districts, the district -- the Republicans have said that, if they win, they want to subject Medicare, Social Security, health blackmail, to lifting the debt ceiling. They have said they would like to review Medicare and Social Security every five years.
They have said that they would like to make it a discretionary spending, that Congress could decide to do it or not, rather than mandatory. So, Social Security and Medicare are on the line. A woman's right to choose is on the line. The planet is on the line, issues that relate to prescription drugs.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: For years, we've been trying to get the -- the secretary to negotiate for lower prices. We couldn't get it done, until we had the Democratic president and a strong majority enough in the Congress to get it done.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about that, the future and the new Congress potentially.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Yes. Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You told Andrea Mitchell earlier this week: "We need generational change, but, in some cases, there's no substitute for experience."
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Will you remain in leadership in the new Congress?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: I'm not talking about that. I'm here to talk about how we win the election.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But to deliver on all these things...
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: I was only paying -- I was only paying Andrea a compliment for all the experience that she has.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I see.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: The -- but the fact is, what we need to...
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you may or you may not?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: I'm not here to talk about me. I'm here to talk about the future, America's working families, for the children. It's always about the children.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: And the point is this, that the -- these issues, if you're a senior, you have a lot at risk.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: If you're a childbearing age woman, you have a lot at risk, if -- your family does.
If you care -- if you care about the planet, you have a lot at risk. They said it's a hoax.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: When we had the debate on our funding for addressing the climate crisis, not one Republican vote.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: We talked about -- so, what we need to go forward with is more that we had in our agenda and childcare...
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: ... child tax credit, issues like that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Madam Speaker, I appreciate you coming here today.
We did also invite the Republican House leader to join us. He declined the invitation.
We'll be right back.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Thank you.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we turn now to former FDA Commissioner, Pfizer board member Dr. Scott Gottlieb.
Dr. Gottlieb, it is great to see you.
But I have other tough issues to ask you about, including this surge in respiratory infections among children in 33 states now. We're seeing some pediatric units overwhelmed. Why is this happening, and why is it having such a powerful impact?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB (Former FDA Commissioner): Well, look, we're seeing a surge right now in Respiratory Syncytial Virus.
This is a virus that we typically see in the late winter. We started to see cases in the summertime. And we're seeing a peak in cases right now. This is not unlike the season last year, where we also saw an early peak in those cases.
Some people ascribe it to the fact that children have been somewhat removed from these circulating pathogens, so you don't have as much immunity in the population generally. So it's changed the typical cycle for this virus. And we're seeing these waves of infection from RSV earlier in the season than we would normally see.
For most people, this is a self-limiting infection. It's an upper respiratory infection. It causes cold-like symptoms. But, for children under the age of 2, it can be a serious infection. And it's especially concerning for those who are immunocompromised, children who are immunocompromised, or those in a neonatal intensive care unit, as well as older adults, elderly Americans...
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: ... or people who have other kinds of conditions that put them at risk.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, this is happening, you have flu season coming, and we have COVID ticking up.
The White House says everyone needs to go out and get their COVID booster by Halloween. Do you agree with that timeline? And how do you protect yourself against all of these respiratory risks?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, look, I think now's a prudent time to not just get the COVID booster, the new bivalent vaccine, but also the flu vaccine.
Right now, we have flu cases picking up. It looks like this may be a more aggressive flu season. The predominant strain right now is H3N2. And the vaccine appears to be a good match for the strain. So, the vaccine, based on what we see right now based on the genetic sequence of the strain that's circulating and the antigen that's in the vaccine, does suggest that the vaccine is going to be quite protective this season.
So it's a good time to get it. I think, in terms of just protecting yourselves, it's just the normal things that we advise people to do, wash your hands, try to avoid crowded spaces, if you are someone who's at risk.
And if you don't feel well, stay home. Don't send a child to school if they're not feeling well, so you don't expose others to an infection.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Wear a mask?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: So, all the things that we have learned to do to just good -- well, look, I think, if you're someone who's at risk or someone who wants to take extra precaution, one-way masking, we know, does work, if you're going to wear a high-quality mask.
I don't think people are going to be generally wearing them right now. But I think, for people who are at risk, who want extra -- an extra measure of protection, that's another step...
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: ... that can help afford them that.
The one thing -- the final thing I will say is that, for parents who have children who have an upper respiratory infection, many times, they're testing them, finding out it's not COVID and feeling relieved. I think they still need to be vigilant that it could be RSV, it could be early flu.
So, if you see progressive symptoms, seek out help from a doctor. There are treatments that are available that could help children with RSV.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Noted.
It is election season. And I want to ask you about a false claim about COVID vaccines that really hit the campaign trail, and it's been in conservative circles in particular.
Under U.S. law, just to be clear, the CDC does not mandate vaccines, as we have talked about here before. The state governors have the authority to do that. Can you explain what the CDC advisers actually did last week?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Yes, well, this week, they took the recommendation that already existed for children to get vaccinated with the COVID vaccine, which was their general recommendation they issued last year.
And they incorporated it into their formal recommendations, which are their permanent recommendations. Some people refer to it as their vaccine schedule. That doesn't translate into state mandates. There are a lot of vaccines in that schedule. For example, the flu vaccine is in that schedule. They recommend that for children. No states mandate that. The HPV vaccine is in the schedule. Only two states mandate the HPV vaccine for children to attend school, Virginia and Rhode Island.
Even the dengue fever vaccine is in the schedule. And, obviously, no states mandate the use of that. So, what got started on Twitter initially was that the CDC recommendations automatically translate into state mandates, which is not true.
One of the reasons why the CDC went ahead and made this formal recommendation is that it also allows the vaccines to be incorporated into the Vaccines for Children's Program, which provides federal funding for indigent kids to get access to vaccines. And so that's part of the impetus.
But there will be no state mandates. Quite frankly, I don't think there should be state mandates. I don't think we're at the point right now where we should be considering mandating this vaccine as a condition to attend school. While I think every child should seek out this vaccine, parents should strongly consider vaccinating their kids, I don't think it should be mandated by states.
And I wouldn't expect to see any state mandating this vaccine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. Thank you for your clarity on that, because the misinformation -- misinformation, you just said, started on Twitter.
Tucker Carlson amplified it. But, as we just showed our viewers, you see a number of candidates and sitting governors spreading this. You have presidential candidate potentially Mike Pompeo. You have the governor of Virginia, the governor of Utah, Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas, the GOP candidate for governor of Arizona, Kari Lake. They're all putting out tweets with this false idea.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Right. And...
MARGARET BRENNAN: So there's clearly a political force in an anti-vaccine sentiment.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, look, I think, from a public health standpoint, the more that this becomes a political matter, and the more people make this a political matter, the campaign against mandates bleeds into a campaign against the vaccine itself.
And people generally don't take away the nuance of those messages, if there is any nuance in those messages in the first place. They hear the skepticism against the vaccine, and then they're less likely to consider it for themselves, even where it makes sense from a clinical standpoint.
I didn't see a lot of people stepping up and saying, look, my state won't mandate the vaccine. We believe these are decisions that should be left to pediatricians and parents. But I would strongly encourage parents to make sure that their children are up to date with all the available vaccines, especially in advance of this flu and COVID season.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: That would have been an appropriate message, in my view, for a governor to say who wanted to say, look, we're not going to mandate it, but we still think it's important.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: I -- the closest I saw anyone coming to that was Spencer Cox in Utah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
And, to be clear, the CDC wasn't as clear as they could have been either.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: That's right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, that's why we wanted you to help translate that for our viewers today.
Dr. Gottlieb, I have to leave it there. So good to see you again.
We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to threats to election security and efforts to combat false information online.
We're joined by CBS News cybersecurity expert and analyst Chris Krebs and Kara Swisher, tech journalist and host of the podcasts On With Kara Swisher and Pivot.
Good to have you both here.
KARA SWISHER (Host, Pivot): Thanks for having us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We were just talking about this to Dr. Gottlieb, but on the election front -- and, Kara, I want to start with you -- there have been these recent studies talking about Facebook, TikTok approving even ads with political misinformation on them.
How does this continue to happen with vaccines and with political misinformation? Why can't these platforms get control?
KARA SWISHER: Because they don't want to make those decisions.
They want to opt themselves out of decision-making on editorial. And you heard Nick Clegg, who's running -- is number two at Facebook right now, essentially, just gave an interview where he talked about that: We shouldn't be the arbiters of this. We shouldn't do this. It should be government.
But then -- then we have the First Amendment, so government can't intercede. So, I think they don't -- there's just so much of it, and it floods the zone so much, and they make money from it, that they don't want to -- they don't want the responsibility for it, even though it's on their platforms and they should have the responsibility.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And some of it sort of dances or flirts with distortions. And so you have to be in that government business of spotting this.
But, Chris, how do you even do that?
FORMER DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER KREBS: Well, it's -- it's a challenge, as Kara pointed out with the First Amendment issues.
You know, DHS launched their Disinformation Governance Board earlier in the year, and that was not actually met with any kind of fanfare, and they ultimately sort of backed down, even though efforts they were taking through that group were -- have been under way for a decade or more within DHS.
So, one of the things that we looked at back in the 2020 election was not so much the specific claims or the specific elements of mis- or dis- information, but it was more the thematics that were emerging, so not pinning it to a single individual, instead looking at, hey, these are some of the claims we were seeing, and here are the security controls or preventions in place that would actually not allow that to happen in an election.
And we're seeing some continuation of that, but, once again, there's so much of it. And, once it hits, it's really hard to go bit by bit and pull it back.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to show our viewers some of the video, that our CBS affiliate out in Arizona filmed multiple incidents of possible voter intimidation.
They had armed individuals wearing tactical gear, as you can see there, camped out by a voter drop box. There were other two with handguns that were concealed yesterday.
So, some of this is driven towards a very specific conspiracy that emerged, right? So, Chris, how does the FBI head this off, and not allow it to go into political violence?
FORMER DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER KREBS: Well, the -- I think the important thing here is that, if any voter or election official sees these sort of things happening in Arizona -- Arizona, they -- they make a report. They tell the -- the relevant officials, and they can investigate, and they can look at these people.
They can investigate, ensure -- and then there's a deterrence measure in place.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But it takes the guy with the tactical gear before that happens? I mean...
FORMER DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER KREBS: Well, and -- and that's the biggest challenge here, as I see it, is that the continued efforts to delegitimize the 2020 election are resulting in candidates that are incentivized to push these lies.
But, also, then you have a radicalization and activation across the voter base that are effectively -- this is performative. These -- this doesn't happen. You know, the claims of mules and ballot trafficking, it doesn't happen, particularly in a way that someone like this would -- would be able to detect anything.
Moreover, what's happening is, the people that are being accused of ballot trafficking or being a mule actually report it to the officials and say: Here's my name. Here's my contact information. I was accused of this.
Would any legitimate fraudster or mule do that and then report on themselves? Of course not. So, it's all performative. And, unfortunately, I am concerned that it results in violence.
KARA SWISHER: It's -- more importantly, chaos is the point...
FORMER DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER KREBS: Yes.
KARA SWISHER: ... chaos and discord. It's actually from the Russian playbook.
FORMER DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER KREBS: Yes.
KARA SWISHER: Chaos is what they want, discord, problems, making people radicalized, radicalizing people.
And it's -- it's in the mainstream. Before, it was sort of -- it bubbles up from the bottom, but now it's pushed down from the top. And so, just last night, you saw Trump say a number of things that were radicalizing. I don't know what else to say it.
And so that goes down, and then it goes back up. And it's -- it's hit the mainstream now. They don't even need these -- these ads or anything else, because it's now infected some of the public so much.
And so this is where people get their news, a lot of news.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FORMER DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER KREBS: Yes.
KARA SWISHER: And, before this, we had sort of information obesity. Not enough people got good news. Now they get a lot of information, but not actual facts.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We're going to take a quick break and come back, talk more about this in a moment.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation.
Don't go away.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
We continue our conversation now with Chris Krebs and Kara Swisher.
Kara, I want to pick up with you. We've been talking about social media. Twitter may find a new buyer, billionaire Elon Musk.
KARA SWISHER: Yes, on Friday.
MARGARET BRENNAN: On -- Friday is the day, I believe.
KARA SWISHER: Yes, supposedly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Mark Warner, who chairs the Intel Committee, has said that there is no American more dependent upon the largess of the communist party than Elon Musk. He's the CEO of Tesla, SpaceX, the rocket ships. Bloomberg saying that the administration's going to have to do national security reviews potentially of businesses he owns.
KARA SWISHER: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, how much of a risk is it if this transaction goes through?
KARA SWISHER: It depends on what they find, I guess. You know, I mean I think the issue is - is he -- he already does a lot of defense work. A lot with the rockets and everything else. And it's considered very innovative and has done amazing things. The International Space Station is - is -- depends on Elon Musk and his rockets. And so he does a lot of - you know, obviously, with transportation, that's another area that's important to look at, and who owns it. And Twitter also. Who -- this is a big communications platform, even though it's a terrible business, so who owns it matters. And so, who are his investors? Who is putting money into it, et cetera, et cetera, should be looked at as a matter of course.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But, yes, I mean it's almost kind of amazing, Chris, that - that there isn't more scrutiny. I mean there is FCC scrutiny of ownership of news organizations.
KARA SWISHER: That's right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When it comes to social media and a company like TikTok, it's owned by a Chinese firm. An increasing number of Americans are relying on it for actual news, not just tweeting about themselves but actual news. Is this a risk?
CHRISTOPHER KREBS: Well, I - I think, just to the - to your point, as more people use these platforms, as they get more information, as they're shifting away from traditional media that we're all used to, the intelligence services of our adversary are seeing this shift as well. And so it's not necessarily specifically about TikTok. It's all platforms. And it's all avenues. But TikTok represents a specific risk. And - and a colleague of mine wrote a paper, Dakota Carey (ph) wrote a paper for cyber scoop talking about how it's not necessarily the data security challenges, it's that the Chinese Communist Party may have the ability through the parent company of TikTok to actually shape narratives, suppress, lift, shape what we see on a daily basis. And it doesn't have to be everything you see all the time, it can just be enough.
KARA SWISHER: Yes.
CHRISTOPHER KREBS: It can just be enough, a little bit. And I think about what happens if -- if the Chinese invade Taiwan? What happens in the runup to the '24 election if they're not happy with some of the more - you know, the stronger stance that this administration is taking in China?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
CHRISTOPHER KREBS: There's a significant amount of risk exposure we have here.
KARA SWISHER: And then who -- who owns Twitter? Who - who are his investors? I think that's a normal question for a government to ask. You know, the CCP doesn't own CBS, to my knowledge, so -
MARGARET BRENNAN: The Chinese Community Party, no.
But, for Elon Musk, I know you know him, and last question here on this. Russia watcher Fiona Hill said Putin plays the egos of big men, gives them a sense that they can play a role, but in reality they're just direct transmitters of messages from Vladimir Putin. She just gutted Elon Musk when he was pushing pro-Russia positions.
I mean, is it really that? I mean are -- are adversaries use business icons to further their foreign policy?
KARA SWISHER: Why, yes, that's happened before. I don't know if you've heard about President Donald Trump. I mean people have talked about that. So, yes, I think - I think Elon's doing this on his own. But he's -- you know, he's -- he's -- a lot of people in Silicon Valley are also mouthing the same thing. There's sort of a certain class of tech bros (ph) that are into this idea.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you still think this transition - transaction --
KARA SWISHER: Well, they have no -- foreign policy experience, or they have no business doing this, but that doesn't stop them, which is about everything. There are excerpts on everything case (ph) because they're the richest people in the world, in case you didn't know.
So, I think it's slightly dangerous. I don't know, Chris?
CHRISTOPHER KREBS: A little bit.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We could keep talking about this.
CHRISTOPHER KREBS: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to keep talking about this but I have to take a break here -
CHRISTOPHER KREBS: Next week.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And bring some important information to you from voters themselves, actually.
We wanted to better understand how Americans could impact the vote in the year's elections. And our CBS News campaign 2020, I -- 2022 -- sorry, it's moving quickly, eye in America is tracking four groups of what we are calling election influencers.
And on Friday we spoke to some pressured parents. These are voters who describe themselves as feeling post-pandemic stress over finances and kids.
(BEGIN VT)
LASHAWN (Democrat): I feel like Biden is doing a pretty good job. But my concern is like the crime. I want to know who is - you know, what exactly will they do about this because it's -- it's out of control in Chicago.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What about in Arkansas and Texas?
STEPHANIE (Independent): I live more in the suburbs. So it's not as prevalent in my neighborhood. But it's still something that's concerning.
JOHN (Republican): Not so much. Greg Abbott, our governor, does a great job. And the only thing, you know, that we've been having trouble with is, you know, the border.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, immigration is a concern for you in these upcoming elections?
JOHN: We just left a pandemic. When you have thousands upon thousands every day crossing over, they don't have to get tested. You know, we don't know what they're bringing in.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, some of those pandemic-era restrictions are still in place along the border. What do you need to see that would change your impression of immigration in this country?
JOHN: I - I really like how DeSantis and Abbott have been taking them and - and shipping them out to bluer states so they can recognize the problems that we've been having in - in Texas and in Arizona. You know, we -- Greg Abbott needs to have a lot more control over the border itself.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you will still vote Republican in this upcoming --
JOHN: Yes. I - I would still support Greg Abbott because his running -- he's running up against Beto, Beto, and, you know, he -- he's all about the open border.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Show of hands, will all of you accept the election results from these midterm races in 2022?
Yes?
All of you trust the elections that -- and the systems to run them?
How would all of you describe the current state of the U.S. economy?
STEPHANIE: Oh, I would say scary.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Scary?
STEPHANIE: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Lashawn, how would you describe it?
LASHAWN: I would say it's unstable because it's just so much going on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: John, in one - in one word, how would you describe the U.S. economy?
JOHN: Horrible.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Horrible?
JOHN: In regards to -- with the inflation. I - I watched last week a bag of six-ounce broccoli go from $1.99 to this week being $2.49.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Can I see a show of hands, is anyone driving less because of the cost of gasoline?
So, you're still filling up your gas tank and still driving despite prices climbing higher.
JOHN: Just to go to work. I got - I drive 11 hours to go to work.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.
JOHN: I live in east Texas, work in New Mexico. So, I have to buy it regardless.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Have high prices changed the way you live your life?
LASHAWN: I still have to do whatever I need to do to get around, but, I don't know, what can you do? You have to just adjust. It's not just the, you know, heating, the cost of living, the electricity, everything is just -- it's just really hard.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, John and Stephanie, have you had to make changes in your life because of inflation?
STEPHANIE: Yes, ma'am.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What have you done?
STEPHANIE: We have cut back on our going out to eat, kind of eliminated the Amazon Prime, Netflix, limiting that kind of stuff. I have looked for ways to budget better with groceries.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think that President Biden has control or greater influence over the economy?
STEPHANIE: I don't think it's just as much Congress and also state and local as it is Biden. I won't think it's just one person.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What are your biggest concerns about raising children in America right now? John?
JOHN: The whole woke culture affecting our children. All these elementary schools and middle schools having woke culture pushed on them from the LGBT Plus community for sexual identity and gender. We should be pushing the actual school studies, math, social studies, science, not, you know, gender studies or sexual identification.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What have you seen that makes you concerned?
JOHN: In the district that I am at - I - that I live in, there hasn't been really anything going on. But I'm originally from Iowa. And just recently there was some protests at an Iowa school for bringing in a transgender art -- art show.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you're not concerned about your kids in Texas, you're seeing this on the news, that's what's raising your concern?
JOHN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Lashawn, I'd like to get you to weigh in on this.
LASHAWN: I can also agree with some of his points. I really will say sex education. I feel like some things, you know, are brought to the children's attention they wouldn't even think about.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you have eight kids. I imagine you have some pretty specific ideas in your mind when you're speaking about this?
LASHAWN: Yes, I do. Yes.
The children aren't -- you know, they're really influenced. You can teach them one thing at home, but when they go to school, they're just as much influenced by their teachers and their surroundings. And we should have more input, the parents, of what we want them to learn.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Stephanie, what -- what's your biggest concern? And if you want to react to any of that, go ahead.
STEPHANIE: I - I agree. The other issue has to do with Covid. There's less teachers in the school district. And, because of that, they have student choice school days. So, the students can choose whether or not they want to go to school that day because there's not enough teachers or bus drivers to get them there. And so I worry about their education.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When you said your top issue was crime, what did you have in mind?
LASHAWN: Robberies and, you know, murders, you know, stabbings and -- it's like it -- every time you turn on the news, somebody killed their baby. And, you know, they're losing their mind. It's like people all -- everywhere are doing everything and it's not -- it's like they're out of control. Nobody's stopping them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: John talked about how concerned he was about the border in his state of Texas and migrants coming into the country.
LASHAWN: I mean, there's nothing wrong with helping, but there -- we have more problems here in our country. I feel like there's so - so much focus on helping immigrants, and it's not enough focus on the people here that might need assistance.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you blame your mayor and your governor for that or do you blame Washington for that?
LASHAWN: It's everybody. Everyone. Washington, the mayor. I mean, using -- it's like they - they help who they want. Certain people, certain groups of people, they'll help them and then they'll neglect someone else.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Often when we do these focus groups, we have people of -- from different party affiliations disagreeing with each other, but I'm hearing all of you echo a lot of the same concerns and agreeing with each other. None of you are very optimistic about the country right now.
STEPHANIE: No.
(END VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: For a closer look on that additional release from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and its impact on prices, we're joined by Amos Hochstein, the special presidential coordinator for international energy affairs.
Good morning. Good to have you back here.
President Biden has released more oil from the SPR than all previous presidents combined. Republicans are saying this is depleting the stockpile and it's a national security risk.
When you were last here, you said that this would end towards the end of the year. Did you know then that three weeks before the election there was going to be a release?
AMOS HOCHSTEIN (Presidential Coordinator On Energy Security): Well, first, it's good to be here. Thank you for having me again.
The president, before I came here last time, the president was in the middle already of releasing 180 million barrels. This is still part of that 180 million barrels. So, the announcement that was made the other day is because it takes some time to - to get those barrels released. And these barrels will be released in December.
The president's been committed to bringing down gasoline prices. When -- you mentioned when I was here last, we talked about then prices were coming down from $5 and we were about $4.50. Today they're at $3.80 or $3.79. And, in fact, most Americans see prices around $3.40 to $3.50. So, he's been committed to bringing those prices down. And this release is just part of that process that's been going on for months.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And he says he may do more, but when we last spoke, you said private industry was expected to pick it up and so that you wouldn't have to keep doing these emergency releases. Why isn't that working?
AMOS HOCHSTEIN: Well, I think it is working. The private industry is increasing supply and production.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Then why would he have to do more release.
AMOS HOCHSTEIN: Well, what the president said is that we are going to be very watchful to see what happens around the world. There are a lot of geopolitical events. The Russian invasion. I don't know what Putin's going to do in December or in January. So, we have to be ready for that. So what the president said is, we're going to complete the 180 that we've - that he has announced many months ago, as he's been doing monthly. That will continue on into December. And then, as we are - we are making sure that we are prepared, so if we need to do additional releases, we can do them very, very quickly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There's going to be a European ban on Russian crude imports on December 5th. That's going to have an impact globally. How much of a shock is that going to have on energy prices ahead of the holidays?
AMOS HOCHSTEIN: Well, I think that's exactly what we're talking about, right? So, the president made this release -- announced this release that will happen in December, around the time that the ban comes in. We are also working with Europe and other G7 partners around the world, countries in Asia, to see if we can make sure that we continue to have the Russian barrels on the market, but ensure that the price that -- and the revenues that Russia gets continue to be depressed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: This is the price cap you're trying to roll out still?
AMOS HOCHSTEIN: This is the price cap. Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So that price cap, though, and the negotiations around this has raised speculation that that was one of the factors in Saudi Arabia's decision to pull 2 million barrels a day off the - off the market. And the president has said he's furious that he's going to retaliate against Saudi Arabia. Is that what happened here?
AMOS HOCHSTEIN: Well, look, clearly the president said it better than I can, that he was extremely disappointed in the OPEC decision and that he thought it was a mistake. And, clearly, nobody can argue that it was warranted for any economic reason to do it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that's what OPEC says.
AMOS HOCHSTEIN: I understand, but nobody else thinks that it was warranted. And even OPEC, when they announced at 2 million, then they say, well, we're not actually going to cut 2 million, we're just going to cut 900. And then you look a little deeper and it's really just about 500. So the impact on the market is not going to be as significant.
So, this was more of a big, political statement that OPEC has - has made. And we're - look --
MARGARET BRENNAN: How so?
AMOS HOCHSTEIN: Look, at the end of the day, the president was disappointed in what OPEC did, but his commitment is to do things here in the United States, where we can - where we can have an impact on the American economy, bringing down prices as they have. And, look, think about it this way, when I was here last, in June we were at $120 a barrel of oil and $5 of gasoline. Today we're at $85.
MARGARET BRENNAN: $85.
AMOS HOCHSTEIN: $85. That's - that's 30 percent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And Bank of America has said today they expect an average of $100 a barrel next year. That just came out this morning.
AMOS HOCHSTEIN: Yes, but look at - but the -- in June Goldman Sachs expected the last quarter of this year to be $140, prices to rise to $140. So the banks keep saying that the prices is going to go up. The president keeps taking decisive action here that has led to these lower prices.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But these are short-term fixes that the release is.
AMOS HOCHSTEIN: These are not short-term fixes, Margaret. These are -- we've been in this now for eight, nine months. This is almost a year now of higher prices and the president has taken these actions. So, I don't think these are short-term. I understand that the banks make their own analysis. But they've -- they haven't been accurate over the time and the -- what is really what you can measure is that we're down 30 percent on oil prices and we're down over $1.20 in -- in the United States on gasoline.
And, in fact, we're now almost every single week for the last several months, we've seen a decline in gasoline prices in the United States. And so we're working with allies. We're trying to strengthen the American economy -
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
AMOS HOCHSTEIN: While also making sure that our allies' economies are strong as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Before I let you go, real quick, are you going to be able to close this deal between Israel and Lebanon that would allow for drilling off their coast?
AMOS HOCHSTEIN: Well, I think that this is a really great development, an historic agreement between two enemy countries. Lebanon doesn't even recognize the state of Israel. We're going to have a deal. We're going to sign it hopefully this Thursday. And I hope that this continues to commitment -- our commitment to stability in the region and prosperity for both countries.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Amos, good to have you here. Hope to have you back again soon.
We'll be back in a moment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to the war in Ukraine.
First up, our Holly Williams reports from Kyiv.
(BEGIN VT)
HOLLY WILLIAMS (voice over): In the Russian-occupied city of Kherson, in southern Ukraine, the authorities, installed by Moscow, have now ordered all residents to leave ahead of an expected Ukrainian counteroffensive. Kherson was seized by the Russians in the early days of the invasion. Now Ukraine claims that Russia's planning to blow up a hydroelectric dam in the region to slow the Ukrainian military's advance and has already laid mines, risking a catastrophic flood.
Herman Halushchenko is Ukraine's energy minister, and told us if the Russians destroy the dam, it could even leave a nuclear power plant without water for cooling.
HOLLY WILLIAMS (on camera): So if the Russians blow the dam, one potential consequence is a nuclear accident.
HERMAN HALUSHCHENKO (Ukraine Energy Minister): It could be. It could be.
HOLLY WILLIAMS (voice over): As Russian forces struggle to hold onto territory they've seized, they've launched a new wave of attacks on Ukraine's cities, including with so-called kamikaze drones. The U.S. says Iran is supplying drones and even has troops on the ground helping the Russians operate them. Ukraine says the main target, with over 300 strikes, is energy facilities. As a harsh winter looms, there have already been blackouts in some parts of the country.
HOLLY WILLIAMS (on camera): What's the worst case scenario here? Could Ukrainians end up this winter with no heating and no electricity?
HERMAN HALUSHCHENKO: I think not. But, frankly speaking, it also will depend on how intensive these attacks would be in the future.
HOLLY WILLIAMS (voice over): Ukraine says what it's still asking for is more air defense systems from its friends in the west.
(END VT)
HOLLY WILLIAMS: Ukraine says that Russian strikes on Saturday cut off power to more than 1.4 million households.
Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Holly, thank you.
There are currently 100,000 U.S. troops supporting NATO allies in European countries that surround Ukraine. Our Charlie D'Agata spent time with some in Constantia, Romania.
(BEGIN VT)
CHARLIE D'AGATA (voice over): The Screaming Eagles have landed. The 101st Airborne Division deployed on the very edge of NATO territory. With Colonel Edwin Matthaidess and Brigadier General John Lubas, we board Blackhawk helicopters and head toward the border with Ukraine. Specifically trained to hit the ground fighting, when the call came, the colonel said his soldiers were ready.
COL. EDWIN MATTHAIDESS (Commander, 2nd Brigade Combat Team): And, you know, you could see it on their face that-that all that stuff we had talked about, about being ready, about training hard, you know, not leaving anything on the table, you know, they had a chance to put it into use and they're -- they're doing that same stuff here today.
CHARLIE D'AGATA (on camera): Right. It just got real.
EDWIN MATTHAIDESS: It did.
CHARLIE D'AGATA (voice over): We traverse the Black Sea coast across the water from Russian-held territory in Ukraine and Crimea, until we reached the forward operating site, where soon U.S. and Romanian NATO forces were conducting a joint air and ground assault. Live fire tank and artillery rounds took aim at targets, simulating the battlefields of Ukraine.
CHARLIE D'AGATA (on camera): This isn't a routine military exercise against a hypothetical enemy. This is a real-life combat scenario against a very real enemy, one that's not so far away.
BRIG. GEN. JOHN LUBAS, (Deputy Commander 101st Airborne Division): We're about 250 miles from the front line of Russian troops. And the way we are dispersed right now, we are ready to transition from our current locations where we're currently at to combat operations on order.
CHARLIE D'AGATA: It's the first time the 101st has been headquartered in Europe since the D-day landings, seen here with then General Dwight Eisenhower, prepared to defend European allies again if called upon to fight. Now, almost 80 years later, the 101st is back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, go, go!
CHARLIE D'AGATA: Making a mark in history once more.
(END VT)
CHARLIE D'AGATA: Those military exercises come at a time when broader NATO nuclear exercises are underway, now entering the second week. They involve 60 aircraft from 14 countries, including U.S. B-52 bombers. They were scheduled long before the war in Ukraine began.
Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Charlie D'Agata, thank you.
We'll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That's it for us today. Thank you for watching. Until next week, for FACE THE NATION, I'm Margaret Brennan.
