Exclusive Interview With King Abdullah

CBS News Anchor Dan Rather spoke with King Abdullah in Jordan's capital, Amman. The following is a full transcript of the interview.

King Abdullah: Not at all.

Dan Rather: Everybody agrees it's a critical moment in history, not just the history of the Middle East. What's the most important thing you have to say to the American people at this juncture?

King Abdullah: Well, as you said, this is a critical juncture on how we proceed in this region. And we still have, now that we have seen the war over, winning the peace in Iraq is going to be a critical issue. To get it right from the start. And equally as important, the core issue for the Middle East has always been the Israeli-Palestinian problem. So, on both levels, we have to be able to move simultaneously, as quickly as possible, to reassure the people of the area that things are changing for the better.

Dan Rather: Things begin with first steps. First step with Iraq, what's the most important thing in and of Iraq itself?

King Abdullah: Well, there's actually three elements in that at the moment. First of all, I think that the coalition forces have agreed that Iraqis -- as for the Iraqis that there should be an international role on the ground. And it's probably gonna take a bit longer than most of us would like.

The second element of that would be how the administrative reforms in Iraq happen from Day One. General Garner is obviously going in with his team. But it's important that the Iraqis have a sense that the new leadership of Iraq is being given a chance to take a role as quickly as possible. There has to be an Iraqi face.

Now there is obviously a role for the Iraqi opposition. But I would believe that the majority of the Iraqis would feel more comfortable with people who had suffered with them. So, they must look at community leaders -- maybe people from the old government, those that were part of the nation, as opposed to part of the regime, to give an Iraqi face, to make the Iraqis feel that they have a say in how Iraq is going to move.

The third part of it, I believe is that for Iraqis to look to the future, they need to be able to come together, with the support of the coalition, obviously, and the international community to create a national charter -- to be able to get the political steps moving in the right direction.

And if Iraqis can move on the national charter as quickly as possible, that allows them to be positioned to bring in an Iraqi constitution. And that will, I think, open the steps for the future. And bring calmness to the Iraqis that Iraq will be their country at the end of the day. And I think will reassure the area that you know, Iraq is going to be an independent, capable country as quickly as possible.

Dan Rather: Your Majesty, you were saying that there are three things to have in mind as we go forward inside Iraq. And they are?

King Abdullah: Well, I believe that initially for Iraqis and for the rest of the world that, as the coalition forces have said, Iraq is for the Iraqis. And that we want, I think, the whole world wants the Iraqis to be able to take command of their future as quickly as possible. And I know that there is discussions between the coalition and the United Nations to see how the United Nations could enter, and then maybe open to the international community.

On the ground, that might take a bit while longer than we hope. But obviously, moving in that direction would reassure a lot of people. The second element is obviously that now that you have General Garner going in with his team, you need to give an Iraqi face to the future of Iraq as quickly as possible.

And we have to identify Iraqi leaders to be able to not only bring some sort of stability to Iraq internally, but at the same time reassure that, you know, the political process is moving in the right direction. Therefore, I think that the Iraqi opposition, although it does have some role, will probably not have the major role.

I think Iraqis would feel more comfortable with fellow citizens that suffered as they did. So, I would imagine that we need to be looking at very strong community leaders. Maybe generals, or ministers of the government that were not necessarily part of the regime. But those that served the country.

The third element, on the political side, is that Iraqis need to be able to develop as quickly as possible a national charter. By being able to do that, that then develops into an atmosphere where Iraq can then develop a constitution, which would allow them to be able to form a government. And I'm wary that maybe a constitution might be imported. It has to be something that needs to be developed.

Therefore, the national charter is probably the right way to go. And then, hope that the constitution will allow a future political government for Iraq.

Dan Rather: You mentioned that while you believe there's a place for what you call the opposition members, these are people who left Iraq to oppose the Saddam Hussein regime from the outside. I want to make sure I understand. You think there's a place for them. But you think perhaps not the dominant, or ruling, place?

King Abdullah: No. Again, I think they can be brought into capacity to council and advise. But if I was an Iraqi, who had suffered over the past 20, 30 years, I would feel much more affinity to somebody who was with me during the difficult times, than somebody who was outside. And although the opposition can play a role, I think it's a minor role. And that the future should be with leading figures that were in Iraq during the crisis.

Dan Rather: Well, for example, let me take one name. Ahmad Chalabi has come to the fore in the first days after the battlefield victories. Is he, or is he not someone that you believe could be the ultimate leader of Iraq?

King Abdullah: Again, I think, as I just said, the opposition should play a much minor role. And I think that most Iraqis would be suspicious of somebody who spent, I don't know, this gentleman, 20, 30 years outside the country. They need to identify with people that are part of Iraq, that they know, as opposed to somebody from outside.

Dan Rather: Your Majesty, in your opinion at this point, what are the dangers that Iraq will develop into, not a democracy, but a theocracy, somewhat along the lines of Iran?

King Abdullah: I think that the concern and the fear that has been in the hearts and minds of Arabs and Iraqis alike for the past couple of years, when we saw the potential of a war happening with Iraq, was the breakup of Iraqi society. The Kurds of the North, the Sunnis in the middle, and the Shiites in the south. And this is something that I think everybody agrees --we all need to work together to make sure that that doesn't happen. And if we get a breakup in the south, it could have some negative spinoffs. And I think that everybody understands the red lines there.

Dan Rather: Everybody understands the red lines. But is it, or is it not practical to believe that Iraq can be held together? That the Shiites, primarily Shiites in the south, don't break away, and the Kurds don't break away in the north?

King Abdullah: It has to. And I believe that if it doesn't, we're going to have the problems that the breakup of Iraq will not only create on the Iraqi people itself, but will escalate across the waters into the region. And if we don't keep the integrity of Iraq, we could have some major, serious problems throughout the whole of the Middle East.

Dan Rather: Your Majesty, do you, or do you not favor bringing in the United Nations quickly to administer a government in Iraq, or to help Iraq?

King Abdullah: Well, having heard President Bush, and Prime Minister Tony Blair, I think they agree that there should be a role for the United Nations, and the international community as quickly as possible. But let me be realistic on the ground. I think that's going to take some time, unfortunately. There still needs to be some order that needs to be instilled. There needs to be the first steps of Iraqis taking command of their own future. And I believe the United Nations will also need some time to decide how to be able to go in. We would like, I think, all of us, for it to be quicker. But I have a feeling it's going to take a bit longer than all of us wish.

Dan Rather: Your Majesty, I want to ask a question in two parts. That is, the new freedom of Iraq -- what does it engender in your country in terms of stresses and strains? Then I'm going to ask you about the Arab world as a whole. And for your country?

King Abdullah: Well, you have to remember that Iraq had experienced democracy before the Ba'ath party came in. It did have a parliament. It did have elections. So, it's not a new thing for Iraqis. I mean, the older generation will remember that. And so, I think that the movement to freedom for Iraqis to have more of a personal say in their future is something good for the area.

And if the region wants to be a part of the international community, we all have to move in that direction. And so, again, the importance of what's happening in Iraq is relevant to all of us. If Iraq is a successful model, then it allows the rest of us to be able to move into that direction much easier.

Dan Rather: And if Iraq turns out not to be a successful model?

King Abdullah: Then it'll be used as an excuse by many people in this part of the world, not to look to the future, not to move forward. And that's the danger. And it'll affect all of us.

Dan Rather: Let's talk about the Arab world as a whole, keeping in mind that each country is unique, and there's a danger of over-generalizing. But at this moment, what are the fears or Arabs in gen-- or-- what are the fears of Arabs in general?

King Abdullah: Well, even if you were to ask, there was an international economic gathering several months ago where a question was posed to a western audience. And the same question was posed to an Arab audience. What is the most important thing, the single most important thing in the Middle East, if you had a say?

The western response was 'democracy and freedom.' The Arab response was 'A future for Palestine.' And I think the west needs to understand that the core issue still is the Israeli-Palestinian one. And unless we solve that problem, I think that very few people will have the confidence to be able to push out, and develop their countries in the way that we would like.

Dan Rather: Well, let's pursue that. Right now, what step would you have taken, would you have the leadership to take, right now, in the wake of the battlefield victory in Iraq? What's the most important thing that can be done now to move forward some kind of process?

King Abdullah: Well there's two elements to that. Obviously, the international community is waiting for the PNA to form a new government under the leadership, or the prime ministryship for Abu Mazin.

Dan Rather: That's Palestine authority.

King Abdullah: Yes. And launching the road map. And the quicker we can move on that, the more you reassure people in the Middle East that there's going to be a balanced attitude. The average Arab looks at the situation as follows: The Americans, for whatever reason came to liberate the Iraqi people. There are people that are very skeptical that that is actually the intention, unfortunately. Well, if you've liberated the Iraqi people, show us how fair you're going to be, liberate the Palestinians. And so, everybody is watching to see, is there going to be fairness and transparency throughout the region? And going back to the core issue, is that of the Israeli-Palestinians.

Dan Rather: And so, a first step would be?

King Abdullah: First step would be to launch the road map. To support the Palestinians in creating their new government. And getting people to the peace tables as quickly as possible.

Dan Rather: And?

King Abdullah: May I also add I think that what people have to understand is that there's two elements that have been articulated in the Middle East. I think the majority of Israelis don't look at the future of themselves, or their children, just as the extent of the peace that they have with Jordan to the borders of Syria, or to the borders of Egypt.

I think that the Israelis, if they want a future for themselves and their children, look to be integrated, as far as Oman, on the Indian ocean, to Morocco on the Atlantic. And I think from the Arab point of view, first started by (FOREIGN LANGUAGE NOT TRANSCRIBED) of Saudi Arabia, and then signed at the Arab Summit in Beirut last year, the Arabs agreed to give everything the Israelis have ever wanted from the Arab side, including Iraq signed on. And never retracted their statement.

So, we will give Israel its future, its security, protection. But at the same time, the Arabs want a future for the Palestinians, and a Palestinian viable, independent state. And it's as simple as that. I know the devil is in the details. The Israelis will have their security guaranteed by the Arabs. But there must be a Palestinian state for the Palestinians.

Dan Rather: Realistically, do you or do you not ...
Well, I was about to ask, that's your hope. That's your dream. Realistically, can this be accomplished without a United Nations, including United States military presence along whatever line is drawn, for this Palestinian state?

King Abdullah: Well, I think we have to get the political principle sorted out first before we can look at what we need to do on the ground. Not -- President of the United States, for the first time in American history has articulated a viable Palestinian state within three years. We kept on saying that in the old days there was a tunnel. But there was not a light at the end of the tunnel.

We now have the light at the end of the tunnel, but we have to move through. And I think by declaring or launching the road map, having a new Palestinian government in place, we can get to the table that will then identify what needs to be done on the ground on the security aspects. And the problem is that some of our friends in Israel sort of use security as the major argument. Well, you're never going to have security unless you solve the political questions first. I think that if we identify and all agree in the Middle East that there will be security for Israel, there will be a Palestinian state. I think with the international community we can look at the security aspects on the ground.

If Palestinians feel that there is a future, and the Israelis feel that there is a positive future for both sides, then I think the security problems becomes less. Don't forget that the extremists in the world on this region like to use the Israeli-Palestinian issue as a rallying call. If we solve that, then extremists and terrorism will have a less of a voice.

And this is the hope that all of us have by solving this problem. My country will never be able to develop in the way that we wanted it to do if we have the stigma of the Israeli-Palestinian crisis hanging over our shoulders.

Dan Rather: In any road map that you can see, that stands a chance at being successful, can any of the settlements on the West Bank, the Israeli settlements on the West Bank, remain? Stay?

King Abdullah: Well, I think the most important question is that we can't continue building settlements. I mean, you know, settlements are I think, an obstacle for the peace process. And to continue an expansion of settlement programs is very detrimental to the atmosphere that we're hoping for, between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Dan Rather: So, you would see that as the first order of business? No new settlements.

King Abdullah: Well, no new settlements, I think would be a good sign of confidence that there's some seriousness in being fair in addressing the issue.

Dan Rather: And not necessarily ...

King Abdullah: Because it just, it complicates. The more you create settlements, the more difficult it is, then to discuss the boundaries of a future between the Israelis and Palestinians.

Dan Rather: I understand. You're talking about future settlements. What about the settlements that exist?

King Abdullah: Well, I think that in the road map, and the discussions that as part of the international community, the boundaries between the Israelis and Palestinians is something that needs to be addressed. And some of the settlements are going to have to be discussed as either being part of Israel, or the future of the Palestinians. There are some serious problems on the ground because certain areas, where the settlements are located at the moment, do impede the difficulties of trying to solve the problem.

Dan Rather: Your Majesty, you met with President Bush in August of last year. There's a story I'd like to have you confirm or tell me it isn't true. That you walked into that meeting, and basically said, 'Is there any way that we can prevent this war?' And that the President said, 'No, it's going to happen, so, let's talk about what you can do to help us.' Is that pretty much true?

King Abdullah: I came in to the meeting to say, "Is there anything that we can do to avert this war?" The President said, "I have not decided that there's going to be a war with Iraq. And when I make, and if I make that decision, I will let the international community know." But he obviously was very clear about his position and his feelings towards the regime.

And I basically said that then, you know, our job, as part of the international community in Jordan particular, is try to find any avenue that we can for a diplomatic solution. And he did say, he said, "We have to give the United Nations a chance. We have to give the international community a role to try and find out a way to solve this problem. But he was very skeptical, from his point of view, whether the Iraqi regime would comply.

Dan Rather: Let's talk about Syria for a moment. It's obvious the United States government, with the British, they are increasing the pressure on Syria quite a bit. There's even talk about a possible invasion of Syria. Can you put that into context of ...

King Abdullah: I would be very surprised if there is a cause of for alarm, for a military confrontation between coalition forces and the Syria government. The Syrians do have some issues with the international community that they have to answer. But I don't think we're at anywhere near the point of an armed conflict between Syria and the coalition.

Dan Rather: When you say issues of the international community, one of those is that they're listed by the United States government as a terrorist state.

King Abdullah: Well, these are issues that, and also, the possibility of weapons of mass destruction. This is something that the Syrian government is going to have to solve well with the United States, and with the international community. But I would be very, very surprised if we're in an atmosphere now of potential armed clash between Syria and the United States.

Dan Rather: Is it your judgment, or not, that some members of the Ba'ath party, high-ranking members of Saddam Hussein's regime, are hiding in Syria?

King Abdullah: Well, I, there was a report that Saddam's wife, and Usay's wife, and Barazoni's (PH) wife were in Syria, just before the war started, or a bit before that.

But senior-ranking officials, there's a lot of rumors that there was a lot of movement across the borders. But I haven't seen anything to confirm. There is speculation. But I haven't seen anything across my desk that says there is any members of the top 50 in Syria at the moment.

Dan Rather: You think Saddam Hussein is still alive?

King Abdullah: That's the $1 million question. I mean, I heard a rumor that as we just saw the breaking news, I heard this about four, five days ago that he was seen on the Friday, last Friday, in Baghdad. But if that's the case, I don't know. Nobody knows. A lot of people have been asking the question. I think it'll take coalition forces, with the Iraqis themselves, to find out what happened to him, and a lot of other people who are on that list.

Dan Rather: Does it matter whether he's alive or dead? Or that, or does it matter whether we know what's happened to him?

King Abdullah: It'll matter; for all of us need to know what's happened to him, and his clique. But what impact it's going to have on the future of Iraq, is I think, going to be irrelevant. He's out of power, if he is still alive. And there's nothing that he can do.

It's not the similar to Osama bin Laden. That was more of a loose organization that could still use it's influences and some of it's terrorist organizations across the world to create problems. But the Iraqi regime is now dead. And well, whoever has survived from the regime is not going to be able to make any impact, I don't think.