Transcript: Sen. Bernie Sanders on "Face the Nation," Dec. 10, 2023
The following is a transcript of an interview with Sen. Bernie Sanders, Independent of Vermont, that aired on Dec. 10, 2023.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to independent Senator Bernie Sanders, who joins us this morning from Burlington, Vermont. Good morning to you, Senator. I'm not sure- okay- I think we've got your audio now, sir. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said that he sees a gap between Israel's stated intent of limiting civilian casualties in reality, and the Secretary of Defense said they could face a strategic defeat, given civilian casualties. Is this vocal enough criticism from the administration, in your point of view?
SEN. SANDERS: Well, it's a start- I think both Blinken and Austin are right. What the President is trying to do is trying to make clear to Netanyahu and his right-wing extremely- extremists government is yes, you can go to war against Hamas, but you cannot go to war against the Palestinian people, and cause the horrific damage to human life that we are seeing right now. Margaret, there have been 16,000 people killed so far. Palestinians, two thirds of whom are women and children. You're talking about 1.9 million people displaced, going around without any water, food. Without any medical supplies. It is a humanitarian disaster. And the United States has got to put all of the pressure that it can to tell Netanyahu to stop this disastrous military approach.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And just to be clear, Israel says it's killed 7,000 militants, they haven't explained how many civilians they estimate they've killed. The US says they can't- can't tally it. The number you cited there is from the Gaza Ministry of Health. But the bottom line here is I know you have been very clear to your colleagues, the US should not provide more aid to Israel, to the Netanyahu government with no strings attached, you wrote, because it would make the US complicit. You said "in an all out war against innocent men, women and children who have nothing to do with Hamas." What do you believe the Netanyahu government's intent is here?
SEN. SANDERS: Hard to say. It really is hard to say. It may be that they're responding in rage against the horrific and terrible Hamas attacks that killed 1,200 Innocent Israelis. Maybe in some of the right-wing extremists minds, there is the goal to drive the Palestinian people off of Gaza completely. But they have now destroyed about half of the housing units in Gaza. So it's hard to predict. But I think when General Austin said you can win the battle but lose the war. Israel is losing the war in terms of how the world is looking at this situation. And I think that it would be irresponsible for the United States to give Netanyahu another $10 billion to continue to wage this awful war.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So progressives like Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, Rashida Tlaib have been clear and calling for a ceasefire. You've taken some flack because you have not. The United States government is opposing a ceasefire as well, and they're- they're isolated at the UN on that point. Why is it you oppose a ceasefire?
SEN. SANDERS: Well, first of all, I strongly support and wish and hope that the United States will support the United Nations resolution. That was vetoed- that we vetoed the other day. That a humanitarian pause, a humanitarian ceasefire, that would have by the way called for the release of all of the hostages held by Hamas, and what have allowed the UN and other agencies to begin to supply the enormous amount of humanitarian aid that the Palestinians need. In terms of a permanent ceasefire, I don't know how you could have a permanent ceasefire with Hamas who has said before October 7, and after October 7, that they want to destroy Israel. They want a permanent war. I don't know how you have a permanent ceasefire with an attitude like that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, so the war you're saying against Hamas is justified in that way?
SEN. SANDERS: I think Israel has the right to defend itself and go after Hamas. Not the Palestinian people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Would you vote against a version of the supplemental bill that President Biden is asking Congress for, if it lacked the conditions on Israel aid you are calling for because you know, there's other things that may be attached to it like Ukraine aid?
SEN. SANDERS: I voted against the motion to proceed on that bill- (unintelligible) on a different bill. I support, strongly support, aid for Ukraine to stand up to Putin aggression. But I think what the Congress has got to do is make it clear (unintelligible) to Netanyahu that we're not going to simply give him a blank check to kill women and children in Palestine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: White House officials say privately they don't think that the blowback from this war will impact them negatively with Democratic voters by the time we get to the presidential election. Do you think they're miscalculating?
SEN. SANDERS: I think this war has been- I don't know the answer to that. But I think the war clearly has been very harmful, not just among progressives, not just among Democrats. The American people were outraged by Hamas attacks against Israel, rightfully so. What they are equally outraged now by what Israel is doing. So you're seeing all over this country people saying why are we giving money to an Israeli government that is doing such awful things? Will it hurt politically? It might. At the end of the day, I think, you know, Biden's gonna win this election. But what's going on now is not helpful.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about hate in this country and concerns around it. As you know, strong concern about antisemitism right now. Congresswoman Elise Stefanik had a really pointed question and answer with university presidents this week. One of those presidents has since resigned as a result of the fallout. I wonder your thoughts of of how far free speech should be protected when it is calling for genocide?
SEN. SANDERS: Well, I agree, look, we believe strongly in free speech, and academia is an area where you're going to hear a lot of debate about issues that may make us uncomfortable. But at the end of the day, when somebody is saying they believe in genocide, for the Jewish people or racist attacks against black Americans, or etc, that is not acceptable. I think on a college campus, where all of the students, black, Jewish, whatever, Islamic have got to feel comfortable on campus.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well do you- okay. Senator, we're gonna have to leave it there, because we're running out of time, but thank you for weighing in today, and dealing with us through those audio problems.
SEN. SANDERS: Thank you very much.
