Cubs' Joe Maddon On Taking John Lackey Out Of Games: Conversation Is 'Never Fun'

(CBS) One of the somewhat-trivial-yet-fun subplots to watch in this Cubs season has been the interaction between manager Joe Maddon and veteran right-hander John Lackey on the mound when Maddon chooses to visit and, usually, remove Lackey from a game.

Simply put, Lackey hates being removed from games. And being as straightforward as they come, Lackey always makes this known to Maddon.

Such was the case Sunday night, when Maddon pulled Lackey with two outs in the seventh inning. Lackey had allowed one run in 6 2/3 innings but was also experiencing some shoulder stiffness, and Maddon wanted to be cautious.

Lackey didn't want to be as cautious.

"Conversation on the mound with John Lackey is never fun," Maddon said in an interview on the Spiegel and Goff Show. "I had to rely on my times I spent with him after games in Anaheim at 'The Catch' having a few beers. I was going back in time mentally at that point. Because with John, you just have to be straightforward. He's going to be straightforward back. He wanted to keep pitching. I said, 'No, you're not.' So it kept going back and forth. He wanted to throw more pitches. I said, 'No, you're not.' And that's what it was, because John's going to want to stay in there. But it was the right thing to do. There's no question about it."

Maddon didn't have much worry about Lackey's shoulder tightness. Still, the Cubs will evaluate him before committing to having him make his next scheduled start.

"He actually felt much better after the game," Maddon said.

Listen to Maddon's full interview with Spiegel and Goff below.