NORMAL, Ill. (CBS) -- Thirty-three days remain until the Illinois gubernatorial elections, and Democratic Gov. JB Pritzker and his Republican opponent, Illinois state Sen. Darren Bailey, faced off on Thursday night.
At the debate at Braden Auditorium at Illinois State University, the candidates sparred on crime, abortion, taxes, and other issues. As CBS 2's Marissa Perlman reported, we heard name-calling and we heard the word "liar" a lot during the debate.
It was all reflective of the harshly critical campaign we have seen Pritzker and Bailey carry on for months.
As to topics for attacks, nothing was off the table.
The first line of questioning by debate moderators was the Safe-T Act, which has drawn controversy and confusion in particular because of its bail reform provisions. Pritzker accused Bailey of voting against funding programs that would help prevent crime – such as increasing the number of Illinois State Police, building crime labs, and funding violence prevention programs.
Bailey said the Safe-T Act must be repealed, and said it "lets violent offenders out of jail before trial." He claimed that Pritzker could have proposed bail reform for nonviolent criminals, but said that is not what the Safe-T Act is.
Meanwhile, abortion may be the most divisive topic this campaign season. We talked to students in Bloomington - some of them first-time voters - and they wanted to hear the candidates about an abortion ban.
Pritzker emphasized that he supports abortion rights and plans to maintain them.
"I think the law we have in place, which we signed into place, that protects a woman's right to choose is what we should keep in place," Pritzker said.
Bailey seemed to suggest he would not have the power to change abortion laws in Illinois if he became governor.
"Illinois has the most permissive abortion law in the nation," he said. "Nothing is going to change when I'm governor. I couldn't change them if I could."
That is not exactly true for Bailey. Since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, governors in many red states have been setting up their own abortion restrictions.
Meantime, Bailey put the governor on the spot, asking whether he is seeking higher office. Pritzker said he plans to serve his full term and get reelected, and to support President Joe Biden's bid for reelection.
Pritzker took a few questions after the debate. Bailey did not.
Pritzker was asked whether he would run for president as he was walking out of the auditorium. He declined to answer.
North Central College political expert Stephen Caliendo expected before the debate that the spatting would continue in this debate.
"It's a very partisan atmosphere, and it's an ideologically divisive atmosphere in our country right now. But remember that getting out the vote is the most important thing," Caliendo said. "It's not necessarily convincing people to vote for one person or the other, but can you can get energized to make sure to go to the ballot? There's certainly no love lost between these two candidates."
The debate was a collaboration between AARP and ISU, and the majority of tickets went to students and voters over 50. Thus, people from two powerful voting blocs were able to submit questions and hear from the candidates in person ahead of the Nov. 8 election.
This is one of two matchups between the candidates. They will face off again on Oct. 18.
Pritzker says Illinois has obligation to migrants, Bailey says no state or city can afford to take so many in
The candidates were also asked about immigration, and specifically about migrants who have been sent to Chicago by bus from Texas on the grounds that Illinois is a sanctuary state.
Pritzker said immigration reform is needed, but when the governors of Texas or Florida send legal refugees seeking asylum with no notice, "We have an obligation to act in a way that we should be proud of." He said this includes providing, shelter, food, and health care, and helping get asylum claims processed.
Bailey said Illinois is "doing what it does best" by helping people in need, but he said no state or city can actually afford it.
He said Pritzker should ask President Joe Biden to secure the border or for the necessary resources, or else Pritzker – whose family manages the Hyatt Hotels and Resorts Corporation – to "Put (the migrants) up in one of your Hyatts on your own dime."
Candidates spar over Workers' Rights Amendment
Pritzker has also touted his support for a so-called Workers' Rights Amendment on the November ballot in Illinois.
Bradley noted that workers already have a right to collective bargaining under federal law, and asked Pritzker why a constitutional amendment is needed.
"Workers should have a right to organize," Pritzker said. "Corporations are much more powerful than an individual worker who wants to go and bargain for their own wages."
Bailey supports a push to defeat the amendment, and was asked why. He replied that unions already have the right to collective bargaining and such an amendment is not needed.
"Unions, stay in your lane and everything will be fine," Bailey said. "Leave mom and pop and private business alone."
Bailey also claimed Pritzker's policies on economics and labor are to blame for 45,000 fewer people working in Illinois. He also claimed the Workers' Rights Amendment would force an increase in property taxes.
"You're making that up," Pritzker told him.
Pritzker touts success of COVID-19 policies
Bailey gained notoriety in 2020 for suing Pritzker over COVID-19 closures and restrictions. He was asked how he would handle a pandemic emergency situation.
Bailey said it would be left up to local jurisdictions, and blamed COVID-19 shutdowns and mitigations for schoolchildren losing two years of education, businesses leaving the state, and a 29 percent vacancy rate on the Magnificent Mile.
Pritzker said the continued COVID-19 disaster declaration allows the state to bring in Medicaid funds to support people with COVID-19 and hospitals. He also emphasized the success of Illinois' approach to the pandemic under his leadership – saying it was necessary to put saving lives first because, "You can't have your livelihood if you don't have your life."
Pritzker said Illinois now has one of the highest COVID vaccination rates and lowest mortality rates in Midwest.
"This was all fighting through when Donald Trump and Darren Bailey were providing conspiracy theories," Pritzker said.
Pritzker also claimed Bailey himself was not vaccinated.
Bailey asked about comment about abortion, Holocaust
Bradley asked Bailey about a remark that was captured on video in which he said the Holocaust does not compare with "life lost" since abortion was legalized. Bradley also noted that Bailey claimed some Jewish leaders agreed with him, and asked Bailey to name those Jewish leaders.
Bailey refused to do so.
He did say: "The atrocity of the Holocaust is beyond parallel. Those statements were made five years ago when Governor (Bruce) Rauner signed into law taxpayer-funded abortion. So yes, the facts are true when you compare the numbers."
Bailey asks if Pritzker will sign pledge to serve full term
Bailey produced a pledge that he said he had signed – vowing to serve all four years of his term if elected governor. He then turned to Pritzker and asked if he would sign it, or if Pritzker planned instead to run for president.
Bradley said he and Roscoe would be asking the questions, but noted to Pritzker that it was a relevant question and asked if he would commit to serving another full term as governor.
"I intend to serve four more years as governor, get reelected, and I intend to support the president," Pritzker said. "He's running for reelection."
Pritzker calls for assault weapons ban
On gun control, Pritzker was asked why he has not been able to pass a statewide ban on assault weapons.
He pointed to the Highland Park July 4th parade massacre as evidence of the need for such a ban, but said to pass such legislation, a supermajority is needed in the Illinois General Assembly. Still, he promised he would ban assault weapons.
Bailey was asked whether he would go against the majority of voters who want an assault-style weapons ban. He said the laws on the books to prevent gun violence that don't go far enough, and he mentioned mental health.
Bailey was earlier asked by moderator Tahman Bradley of WGN-TV Channel 9 whether he wanted to arm all Illinois teachers. He said that would be up to the Illinois General Assembly.
Candidates trade barbs over abortion
Roscoe went on to ask the candidates about abortion. While Roe v. Wade was overturned this year, no restrictions on abortion are in place in Illinois.
Pritzker emphasized that he supports abortion rights and plans to maintain them.
"I think the law we have in place, which we signed into place, that protects a woman's right to choose is what we should keep in place," Pritzker said.
Pritzker added: "Darren Bailey wants to eliminate a woman's right to choose. He wants to take away a woman's reproductive rights."
Bailey talked over Pritzker, "You are so divisive on everything you say."
Bailey was then asked if he would ban all abortions in Illinois including in cases of rape and incest. He replied that the abortion debate was detracting from the real issues.
"Those issues are dividing us," Bailey said. "My focus is going to be crime, taxes, and education."
Bailey also seemed to suggest he would not have the power to change abortion laws in Illinois if he became governor.
"Illinois has the most permissive abortion law in the nation," he said. "Nothing is going to change when I'm governor. I couldn't change them if I could."
Bailey says he will 'leave' $15 minimum wage
Bailey was also asked about a past remark that he would undo all of Pritzker's first-term achievements if elected. He was asked if that would include rolling back the $15 minimum wage.
Bailey replied that he would not do so, saying: "I will leave it. It's on my agenda."
Pritzker in turn called Bailey a liar, saying he has publicly argued to shut down minimum wage.
Name-calling begins in exchange over Safe-T Act
Jennifer Roscoe of WCIA-TV 3 in Champaign, a CBS affiliate, first asked the candidates about the Safe-T Act, which has drawn controversy and confusion in particular because of its bail reform provisions. Roscoe asked Gov. JB Pritzker whether he would be willing to make changes to the legislation.
Pritzker called only for clarifications. Pritzker said the intention of the act is not to release dangerous criminals, but to keep them locked up so they cannot "buy their way" out of jail. He added that in order to reduce crime, solutions such as bringing on more Illinois State Police troopers, building state-of-the-art crime labs, and investing in violence prevention programs and youth summer programs, are all necessary.
Pritzker said his opponent, state Sen. Darren Bailey, voted against funding all of those programs and called Bailey "a hypocrite on this subject."
Meanwhile, Bailey said the Safe-T Act must be repealed on the grounds that "it lets violent criminals and murderers out of jail before trial." He accused Pritzker of "lying about everything that he just said" with regard to the purpose of the legislation.
Bailey said Pritzker "could have proposed bail reform for nonviolent criminals," but he said that is not what the Safe-T Act is, and the legislation attaches "revolving doors to every jail in the State of Illinois."