Under oath, Trump hurled insults at woman who alleges rape
Combative and unapologetic, former President Donald Trump denied sexually assaulting columnist E. Jean Carroll under questioning from her attorney — repeatedly referring to her using derogatory terms and threatening to countersue, according to excerpts of a 5-and-a-half-hour October deposition unsealed Friday.
The transcript portions were released after a federal judge denied a request to keep the document sealed. The judge, Lewis Kaplan, is weighing unsealing more excerpts in the near future.
"She said that I did something to her that never took place. There was no anything. I know nothing about this nut job," Trump said, according to the transcript.
The excerpts reveal a contentious battle between Trump and Roberta Kaplan, a lawyer for Carroll, who questioned him as Trump called the former longtime Elle magazine columnist the perpetrator of "a complete scam" in which she described the rape as she "was promoting a really crummy book."
"I will sue her after this is over, and that's the thing I really look forward to doing. And I'll sue you too," he told Kaplan.
The release of excerpts from the deposition came the same day as Judge Kaplan, unrelated to the lawyer, also refused a request by Trump's attorneys to toss out two lawsuits by Carroll alleging defamation and rape.
"We are pleased though not surprised that Judge Kaplan denied Donald Trump's motion to dismiss and upheld the constitutionality of New York's Adult Survivors Act. We look forward to trial in April," Roberta Kaplan said.
Trump has repeatedly said the encounter with Carroll in the mid-1990s at an upscale Manhattan department store never happened.
In his testimony, Trump repeatedly attacked Carroll's depiction of him as a rapist.
Trump said he knew it wasn't "politically correct" to say "she's not my type" when he responded to claims shortly after Carroll's 2019 book was published. The writer alleged she was attacked by Trump in a dressing room after they had a chance meeting in the store and she agreed to help him pick out lingerie for a friend.
"But I'll say it anyway," he said. "She's accusing me of rape, a woman that I have no idea who she is. It came out of the blue. She's accusing me of raping her, the worst thing you can do, the worst charge."
Speaking to her attorney, he added: "And you know it's not true too. You're a political operative also. You're a disgrace. But she's accusing me and so are you of rape, and it never took place."
At one point in the deposition, Trump called Carroll "sick, mentally sick." He mischaracterized an interview Carroll had given on CNN, falsely claiming she had talked about enjoying being sexually assaulted. "She actually indicated that she loved it. Okay? She loved it until commercial break," Trump said. "In fact, I think she said it was sexy, didn't she? She said it was very sexy to be raped. Didn't she say that?"
Kaplan, Carroll's attorney, then tried to elicit from Trump that he raped her client.
"So, sir, I just want to confirm: It's your testimony that E. Jean Carroll said that she loved being sexually assaulted by you?"
Trump answered: "Well, based on her interview with Anderson Cooper, I believe that's what took place. And we can define that. ... I think she said that rape was sexy – which it's not, by the way."
What Carroll has said in her writing, and in the interview with Cooper, is that she doesn't like to use the word rape because some other people "think rape is sexy." She said she preferred the term "fight."
At another point in the deposition, Kaplan asked Trump if he had ever touched a woman on her breast or buttocks or any other sexual part without her consent.
"Well, I will tell you no, but you may have some people like your client that lie," he responded.
Late Friday, Trump attorney Alina Habba issued a statement, saying: "While it was entirely unnecessary for the unsealing of a transcript both parties previously agreed would remain confidential, our client has nothing to hide and looks forward to resolving this meritless case."
Roberta Kaplan declined to comment on the release of the deposition excerpts.
Kaplan, the Manhattan judge, earlier Friday upheld the lawsuits alleging rape and defamation and seeking unspecified damages by Carroll, saying they could proceed to trial because Trump's challenges were without merit.
"The fact that Mr. Trump denies Ms. Carroll's allegations does not enter into the analysis at this stage of the case," the jurist wrote. "What, if anything, actually occurred must await further proceedings if the complaint withstands the present motion."
Habba said in a statement: "While we are disappointed with the Court's decision, we intend to immediately appeal the order and continue to advocate for our client's constitutionally protected rights."
In his ruling, the judge said the Adult Survivor's Act was similar to the Child Victims Act, another New York state law that temporarily allowed victims of sexual assaults when they were children to sue their abusers years later.
Carroll initially sued Trump for defamation after he mocked her claims he sexually assaulted her. Carroll sued Trump with the rape claim in November, when the Adult Survivor's Act took effect.