Transcript: Rep. Jerry Nadler on "Face the Nation," April 7, 2019
The following is a transcript of the interview with Democratic Rep. Jerry Nadler of New York that aired Sunday, April 7, 2019, on "Face the Nation."
MARGARET BRENNAN: Good morning and welcome to "Face the Nation." As Washington awaits Attorney General William Barr's release of a redacted version of the Mueller Report expected by mid-April or sooner, we begin with House Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler who joins us this morning from New York. Congressman, do you expect to receive the report this week and- and what happens once you do?
REPRESENTATIVE JERRY NADLER: Well, I don't know when we're going to receive it. Attorney General Barr said by the middle of April it could be the end of this week or beginning of next week. But the important thing is not do we get it this week or next week. The important thing is what do we get. We are demanding and we have a right- Congress has a right to the entire report with no redactions whatsoever so we can see what's there. We're already hearing leaks from the Mueller team that didn't leak at all for 22 months but now seem to be ve-very unhappy. We're hearing leaks that Barr misrepresented in his so-called summary letter, what's in the report that he sugar coated it, that he made it look more favorable for the president than it was. We're hearing reports NBC reported that some of the Muller people were saying that it depicted the Russian campaign- I'm sorry, the Trump campaign as having been thoroughly infiltrated by- by- by an intelligence operation of the Russian government. We don't know. We're entitled to see it because Congress represents the nation. And Congress has to take action on any of it. So we're entitled to see all of it. Now, some material has to be--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well the attorney general said he will- he will hand over almost 400 pages, but redact the classified information--
REP. NADLER: Well he has- no he has said--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --and anything obtained through a grand jury.
REP. NADLER: He has said he will redact four classifications of information.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REP. NADLER: Our position is that he should redact none of it. Congress, the Judiciary Committee, and every- in every similar situation of the past, whether with Nixon or with Clinton or with many other situations, the Judiciary Committee has gotten all the information, all the underlying documents and evidence. And the Judiciary Committee has decided what of that cannot be released to the public.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you expect that you would have to go to a court to force the release of the grand jury information?
REP. NADLER: Well, yes. We would have to go the court to get the release of the grand jury information but that has happened successfully in every previous situation. And it's not up to the attorney general to decide with respect to that or with respect to other material that he decides Congress can't see. It's not up to him and remember he is a biased person. He is someone who is an agent of the administration is an appointee a political appointee of the president whose interests he may very well be protecting here. And he interviewed--
MARGARET BRENNAN: So do you actually then reject the entire summary? Do you believe there is possible criminal collusion?
REP. NADLER: Well, the attorney general said there was no there was no- there was no obstruction of justice. He decided that. Mueller did not say that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right- and you're dismissing what he has said.
REP. NADLER: I dismiss what he said. He's a- he's a biased defender of the administration and he's entitled to be defending the administration but he is not entitled to withhold the evidence from Congress and by the way let me repeat one other thing. When you say there's no- no when he says there's no collusion there may very well not have been evidence beyond a reasonable doubt which is a very high judicial standard of criminal conspiracy with the Russians. But there was in plain sight open collusion with the Russians when the president's son and campaign manager and son in law go to a meeting with the Russians to receive quote dirt on Hillary as part of the Russian government's attempt to help the Trump campaign. And that was in the email inviting them to the meeting.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REP. NADLER: They go to the meeting. They said--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But- but that didn't--
REP. NADLER: --they didn't want that information. That is collusion. whether it's criminal conspiracy is another question--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REP. NADLER: But certainly--
MARGARET BRENNAN: And it was that- it was on that question--
REP. NADLER: --the moral collusion--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --of criminality whether it could be prosecuted that the report was turned in. Those were the conclusions there made. I mean it- it sounds like when you are referencing what was the reporting from the New York Times and The Washington Post about some of Mueller's investigators feeling that their- their impressions and their conclusions were not accurately portrayed in the attorney general's summary. Are you going to call those investigators before the committee. Are you going to talk to any of them?
REP. NADLER: After we read the information in the- in the report we'll make the decision as to whether that is necessary. After we read the- the information in the report we'll probably want to call Mueller to discuss it. We'll be having Barr in front of the committee before that but certainly reading the- the report and the underlying evidence will give us more information as to what questions we should ask Mueller or any of the other people who worked with him.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But is- is the bottom line here is you acknowledge that what was put forward may not be indictable but big picture you're saying there are things in this report that could be impeachable- grounds for impeachment.
REP. NADLER: Well who knows. There could be grounds for impeachment. There could be grounds for other action. There could be things the American people ought to know. You know, you can commit shameful acts, you can commit complete betrayals of the public interest without committing impeachable acts. And if you did that the public ought to know that too.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So--
REP. NADLER: And- and the standard- the standard here is not an impeachment. The standard is what was- did- the standard is we have to protect the public from presidential misconduct from anybody else's. And the public has to know about it. And we have to get all the evidence so we can subject to--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REP. NADLER: --to protecting certain classified information- a decision that the Judiciary Committee has always made in the past and can make now. The public ought to know all of it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: As you know Republicans challenged some of these disclosures on- on the legal basis but also point to some of the comments you've made in the past. Back during the impeachment proceedings for Bill Clinton when you said grand jury material represents statements which may or may not be true and it would be unfair to release.
REP. NADLER: Yes, yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So it seems like your view has changed.
REP NADLER: My view has not changed at all.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why?
REP. NADLER: My view has not changed at all because they're comparing apples and oranges. In 1998 the Judiciary Committee was given all the information that we're seeking now. It was given all the information and all the underlying evidence. And the question was, "Should all that information be released to the public?" And I said then that no some of that grand jury information should not be released to the public. Now we are advocating that all of that information should be given to the committee. We are not advocating that all the grand jury information should be go to the public.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you believe that the committee would keep--
REP. NADLER: In 1998, Ken Starr had given everything to the committee and had already had that- the committee already had all that information including the grand jury information and the debate was whether it should be made public--
MARGARET BRENNAN: It was an independent counsel which was perhaps structured differently--
REP. NADLER: That's irrelevant.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --since the special counsel reports to the Justice Department.
REP. NADLER: That's irrelevant. That's irrelevant.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But- but do you- are you arguing that the information if it's shared with the committee would not leak publicly. Can you guarantee that?
REP. NADLER: Certainly. Some- some of it would not leak publicly. Some of it would be decided- some grand jury information would- would you know first of all some grand jury information would presumably be decided must be released by court order to the public because the public interest would outweigh the privacy interests that's happened in the past that might happen again in the future but again the committee has a very good record of protecting information which it decides to protect.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Lastly--
REP. NADLER: And that- that's been the case in the past.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president's former personal attorney Michael Cohen has released a memo or his lawyers did saying that he has 14 million files that have damaging information about the president. He is asking for help in getting his sentence reduced or at least delayed in some way. Do you want the information Michael Cohen has and will you offer him the help he's asking for?
REP. NADLER: Certainly we'd want the information that Michael Cohen or anybody else has that's relevant to the- to this question. Whether we can give him that sort of help or not, I don't know.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman--
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, congressman thank you. We're going to turn now to President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani who is here with me.