Transcript: Jeh Johnson on "Face the Nation," November 1, 2020
The following is a transcript of an interview with former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson that aired Sunday, November 1, 2020, on "Face the Nation."
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION, here in New York City. We go now to former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, who is here in-studio, which is exciting. We've both been tested, I should note, for COVID-19--
FORMER DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY JEH JOHNSON: Yes, thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --and we are adhering to social distancing protocols. Good morning.
FMR. SEC. JOHNSON: Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It's nice to see a face and not just a Zoom screen.
FMR. SEC. JOHNSON: My first live interview in about eight months, yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I think mine too. You told us before on this program that you're relatively optimistic about the security of the upcoming election. But both candidates have both said things that have raised concerns. Joe Biden said at the beginning of this month that he thinks he can win as long as there is no chican- chicanery going on with regard to polling places. President Trump frequently claims fraud. I mean, it's on his Trump campaign website. What should Americans at home be thinking about all this?
FMR. SEC. JOHNSON: I- I cannot, MARGARET, discount the possibility of- of tension, some unrest on Election Day and in the immediate aftermath. I do know that our FBI, and I have a very hard- high regard for our FBI, has been very focused on this issue. They've set up relationships with state election officials to monitor what we see across various different states. In the event there is trouble, our governors do have the- the National Guard to preserve the peace. But, MARGARET, none of this discussion should discourage people from participating in voting and exercising their right and their responsibility to vote. I'm encouraged that more than 90 million Americans have already cast their ballots, which, if you do the math, is the equivalent of the entire 1996 presidential election. And so I- I remain optimistic, but we cannot discount the possibility of- of some trouble or unanticipated events, given the tension that exists out there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But- and it's the job of law enforcement to worry about these possibilities. Your former shop, Homeland Security, the cybersecurity unit within it, has set up their largest election security operation center--
FMR. SEC. JOHNSON: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --to date. They're going to be briefing the media every few hours on Election Day as well about any interference. How do you assess the security of this election and what the Trump administration has done?
FMR. SEC. JOHNSON: I'm very proud of the fact that my old department, DHS, through the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, it's a newly created agency, has set up basically a crisis action center on Election Day and has set up relationships with various state election officials. And they've even gone so far as setting up a mechanism to debunk rumors. That is very, very encouraging. I'm concerned, MARGARET, about foreign interference. There is, in fact, foreign interference right now in the 2020 election. We know this from our own government. The Iranians have attempted to intimidate Democratic voters. We know that there was a large-scale targeting exercise by the Russian government, but our government does not know exactly what their plan is. So there is, in fact, foreign interference. And so I'm encouraged that DHS is taking this very seriously. They plan for this. They've had four years to plan for this, but there's no complete line of defense against a sophisticated foreign actor. So it's up to the voters to be informed and look past the disinformation that is out there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. What- what you're talking about is an influence campaign to sort of manipulate thinking or confidence--
FMR. SEC. JOHNSON: Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --versus going in and changing votes--
FMR. SEC. JOHNSON: Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --necessarily. But back in 2016, President Obama didn't want a lot of public details about what Russia was doing to try to interfere in that election. He was criticized after the fact for it. The Trump administration has decided to be very public about this, or at least what we know to date. Is that the right approach?
FMR. SEC. JOHNSON: Well, let me disagree with you a little bit there. The director of National Intelligence and I on Oct. 7, 2016, made public what we knew then--
MARGARET BRENNAN: I remember well, standing--
FMR. SEC. JOHNSON: --what was happening.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But that was very close to the election and weeks after a private company had detected it.
FMR. SEC. JOHNSON: It was very close to the election. And it was after a very deliberate exercise of declassifying what we knew in a way that did not compromise sources and- and methods. Also wrestling with the- the- the- the real concern that by going public, we are, in fact, possibly undermining our democracy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think that's what's happening now by making this public?
FMR. SEC. JOHNSON: I believe- well, I believe that our foreign adversaries, I believe that the foreign actors are interested in- in undermining confidence in our democracy. And that's probably their overall objective here. I am concerned that the president himself has said little to nothing to promote confidence in our democratic process. And so it's really on Americans to have faith in our democratic process. Roughly one half of the country, and this is a very emotional election, roughly one half of the country after next Tuesday is going to be bitterly disappointed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FMR. SEC. JOHNSON: What I suggest is that it's more important for Americans to think about the long-term preservation of our democracy for themselves, their kids, their grandkids. Preserving our democracy more than any particular political result is what is key here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Very quickly, you've been reported to be possibly under consideration as a Biden administration cabinet official. Are you interested in serving again, perhaps as defense secretary?
FMR. SEC. JOHNSON: It's difficult to look past the next 72 hours. I'm a private citizen. I'm enjoying being a private citizen. I've been in government four separate times. If asked to serve again, as a patriotic American, I'd have to carefully consider it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. Well, we hope to have you back in that job or as a private citizen. Thank you very much, Secretary. We'll be right back with Dr. Scott Gottlieb. Stay with us.