Transcript: Sen. Marco Rubio on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan," Sept. 22, 2024
The following is a transcript of an interview with Sen. Marco Rubio, Republican of Florida, on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" that aired on Sept. 22, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we turn now to Florida Senator Marco Rubio, the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. And he joins us from Miami. Good morning to you, Senator.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO: Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I have a lot to get to with you, but I want to focus in on what you and your committee have been told. I know US intelligence and the FBI said foreign actors are increasing their election interference as we get closer to November. This week, the Senate is going to be briefed in full on this. What is this scenario that is concerning to you?
SEN. RUBIO: Well, I think it's going to become a fact of life in the 21st century. It's just very easy now for anyone to do it, you don't have to be a big nation state, so they're kind of all different. The Russians are looking at what are the preexisting fractures in our country, and then they try to sow division, getting us to fight with one another. That's primarily what we've seen them focused on, you know sowing messages out there, including with inauthentic things that they create. You use AI, you make a fake video, whatever, you put it out there just to get Americans to fight against each other. In the case of Iran, Iran has- it seems to be more specifically focused on Donald Trump. I mean, it's been, now publicly documented they're trying to kill him. And so, if Iran's trying to kill Donald Trump, they most certainly don't want him to win the election. And so that's what their efforts have been, including attempted hack and leak operations and things of this nature, the Chinese are really kind of new into this business, or growing into this business of it, and they seem increasingly in some at least in past cases that we've seen publicly disclosed, going after specific candidates that they view as being anti-China. I don't think they want Donald Trump to win, but I do think you've seen them focus on things like congressional races in the past, and I also think they're laying the groundwork for more expansive operations in the future, on influencing American public opinion, on things like Taiwan and what's happening in the South China Sea and things of that nature. So, there are multiple actors out there that are in this space now, and I think you'll see more in the years to come. Because you don't really need, you know, to build anything really expensive. You just need access to the world wide web. You know, we're an open country, an open society, with open means of communication. And the best way to deal with all this is for awareness. People understand everything you see on the internet isn't true.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. Exactly. That's why we want to talk about it. Microsoft's President testified before your committee, and as he put it, the most perilous time is the 48 hours right before the election. He described this as a race between not just Trump and Harris, but Iran versus Trump and Russia versus Harris. Do you think the United States has gotten smarter in how it responds? And have we learned from what happened in 2016?
SEN. RUBIO: Yeah, so what he alluded to are some instances in the past where some fake audio or fake video generated using AI is put out there and it influences the election 48 hours. I think we're a little bit insulated from that, not that we should let our guard down, but a lot of the votes are already in by the time 48 hours comes around. So that doesn't mean it's irrelevant and very close races. It could tip the scales. I do think all the way around- here's the bottom line, if you see something out there, a video that just seems way too scandalous, I would pause for a second and make sure that it can be verified. That's my advice to everybody is, don't just believe something you see for the first time. It may have been something that happened five years ago, and they're making it look like it happened yesterday. It may be something that- that- that has been made up using an AI mechanism to do so and- and so that's my advice to people as well. Again, I'm not saying 48 hours before the election is irrelevant in America. I am saying it's probably less impactful than it is in some of these other countries who don't have mail voting, early voting, where so many of the votes are already in by then.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the Biden administration has issued sanctions, warning, these public disclosures. One of them this week was about Iran trying to hurt the Trump campaign by hacking and stealing information and then sending it to the Biden campaign. This was similar to that hack and leak operation disclosed in terms of trying to target journalists, and I know it was widely reported, information about you, sir, was stolen and given to journalists. Do you know what was stolen?
SEN. RUBIO: No, but I doubt it's anything that you probably couldn't find with, you know, just a search online of past stories that have been written and things of that nature. But look, I think you're going to see more of that in the years to come, and I don't think that the- you know, to- credit to the media outlets and so forth- I remind- that didn't run with it, I remind everybody you know back in 2016 when this first happened, and I said, that's a foreign operation that was used targeting the Clinton campaign. So, this is going to become one of those things that is, I'm not saying we should be happy about it or accepting of it, but we need to be just understanding that this is now going to become a regular feature. Not just the presidential races. Presidential races get so much attention that I think you can wade through some of that. It benefits from that at least. But I think some of these lower ballot races are the ones that are particularly more susceptible, because if you're running for Congress or Senate somewhere, let's say a congressional seat, and someone dumped something like this on you, it's much harder to get the truth out there in time for it to be cleared up. There just isn't going to be as much interest, and there isn't going to be as much people covering it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Donald Trump posted about the hack and leak operation attributed to Iran, but he said it was evidence that the FBI was spying on him, and then blamed the vice president for spying on him. That is not at all the case.
SEN. RUBIO: Well, again, I don't know anything more than what's been publicly reported when it comes to that hack and leak operation. Perhaps we'll know more this week. But again, it doesn't surprise me that someone you know clicked on something, they got into your system, they stole documents, and then they try to give it to the media. And look, here's what we're going to see one day. It's not just that they're going to take it and give it to a campaign or the media. They're going to give it to somebody, some online journalists, somebody who will run with that stuff and will begin to report on it, or maybe even alter it. For example, make up a fake email where it looks like a real email, maybe it is a real email, but they alter a few words in it and put it out there. And by the time you put out that fire, it's done damage. In a presidential race, everybody will cover that, and I think, get to the truth a lot faster. In a down ballot race, it's going to be a lot harder for some candidate to prove that that email is fake. By the time they do, the election may be over.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Just to be clear, though, it was the FBI that publicly disclosed this with the Intelligence Committee is happening, not the FBI spying on the Trump campaign. There are- when we want to talk about threats to Mr. Trump. It was just last Sunday. There was this second near miss. There are FBI investigations underway into what happened here, but Senator Vance said he doesn't trust Kamala Harris's Department of Justice to really investigate this stuff. Can you assure the American people that law enforcement is conducting a full and impartial investigation?
SEN. RUBIO: Well, I think people on the ground in law enforcement want to do so. What information is made available to the American public, which deserves to know what is behind each- not just one but, two assassination attempts of Donald Trump. I think that's where this lack of trust in institutions. Look, multiple people in the Federal Bureau of Investigation faced charges or were fired from misconduct in the way they handled issues about Donald Trump just eight years ago. So, I think people are rightful to be suspicious and distrusting, and that's why it's so damaging. For example, when 51 former intelligence officials, formers sign a letter saying that a laptop of Hunter Biden is Russian disinformation. Then it turns out not to be true, and then people logically conclude, well, this is an example of how these agencies and our institutions work against candidates they don't like. It undermines people's trust in our institutions, and that lack of trust is eroded in government, in the media, in our agencies within government, and unfortunately, that's why people- that's why disclosure and openness with regards to these investigations, is so critical. It's not just because we want to know. It's because it's important to preserve trust in our institutions. And we're not seeing that more on the second than the first, but we've but you know, but we're not seeing it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you trust the FBI and can assure the public that they are investigating these assassination attempts that JD Vance says they're not taking seriously?
SEN. RUBIO: I trust rank and file on the field FBI agents to do their job. I don't know what their leadership in some of these agencies and the mid-level will do with it, because you've seen a history in the past of there being biased. I hope that's not true. And more importantly, I don't- I don't- I think what the real question is if, in fact, they do discover, let's just say I'm speculating. I'm not saying I know this to be true, or even that I think is true. But let's say there is a foreign nexus to one of these two attempts. Would they allow that information to be put out there to the American public before the election in November? I can't tell you with 100% certainty that there wouldn't be those within the agency--
MARGARET BRENNAN: -- Should they?
SEN. RUBIO: Yes, absolutely. I think that's an important factor for people to know.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I wanted to ask you about whether you have heard or have any information in regard to a foreign nexus, in regard to the bomb threats made in Springfield, Ohio. The governor of Ohio said they had over 30 and he said the person who made the calls came from overseas. This was after Trump and Vance put the focus on Haitian migrants in that town.
SEN. RUBIO: Yeah, only what's been reported publicly, but that would not be uncommon. For example, a lot of these- these calls where they call and tell the SWAT team to go someone's house because there's a murder occurring. A lot of these come from overseas as well. Unfortunately, there are you know- that doesn't mean it's being directed by a government overseas. It could be, I haven't heard that, but just because they're coming from overseas doesn't mean our government is behind it. But yeah, we have these kinds of individuals all over the world that like to do these kinds of things.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, here in this country, in terms of people being inspired to take action, we have been looking, as you heard about, what the perception of the public is right now, particularly some of the things that Mr. Trump and Mr. Vance say. Our poll shows two thirds of Trump supporters believe those false and disparaging claims about Haitian migrants are true. The governor of Ohio has said he is a big supporter of the ticket, but he's sad about this because there's no evidence of these claims, he's disparaging migrants who are legal, and the verbal attacks dilute and cloud what should be a winning argument for Republicans about the border. Do you agree that this kind of thing is a distraction from the broader point and dangerous?
SEN. RUBIO
Well it shouldn't be a distraction because, at a minimum, it shouldn't keep us from, for example, saying, Okay, well maybe I don't believe I don't believe the dogs and the cats thing, but there are literally people moving in by the by the thousands in the case of Springfield. Charleroi in Pennsylvania, you know, that's a 4,000 person city that has 2,500 migrants. And I think one of the problems here is that somehow Americans who are not intolerant, they're not bigots, they're not- but they are troubled by the fact that their city is being flooded. In Springfield, you see reports, these are legitimate reports of huge increases in traffic accidents leading to slower police response time, overcrowded schools. I mean the strain this puts on a community, and if you complain about it, somehow you're a bigot, you're a racist, you're a hater--
MARGARET BRENNAN: -- No we've talked about those legitimate--
SEN. RUBIO: -- That is a story here that everyday Americans are being made to feel like they're haters because they're complaining about something all- any of us would complain. If any of us, I don't care who we are, live in a city of 4,000 people, and you bring in 2,500 migrants overnight into one place, there are going to be problems there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: -- There are absolutely problems--
SEN. RUBIO -- It doesn't make you a bigot there. That should be what we're focused on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The governor has documented and that we have talked about here. But it wasn't everyday people making those claims. It was the Republican nominee and his Vice President making those false claims about Haitian migrants. That rhetoric--
SEN. RUBIO: -- Well, those are claims that people- those are claims that people in those communities made, maybe some of now recanted or moved aside from it. But that should not take us away from the fundamental truth, and that is, there is- there are real impacts happening when you move people into communities, as has been done by design, by the Biden administration--
MARGARET BRENNAN
-- Yes, but you know you're in leadership. You know words matter.
SEN. RUBIO: Yeah, and I think one of the words that should matter the most is there is a real migratory crisis. There is a real migratory crisis and even in this particular case, not just Springfield, Charleroi, other places like that, people are- there are real impacts happening in our country with this movement of mass migration, and that's not gotten the coverage that it deserves. And you say you've covered it other cover- but it hasn't gotten the coverage the cats and dogs thing has gotten way more coverage than the real world impacts that this is having, and I think that's what needs to change, and the way this issue is covered.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will talk about that more on this program, Sir, we've got to leave it there for today. Senator Marco Rubio, thank you for joining us. We'll be back in a moment.
SEN. RUBIO: Thank you.