Full transcript of "Face the Nation" on April 11, 2021
On this "Face the Nation" broadcast moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-California
- Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyoming, House Republican Conference Chair
- Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, D-Michigan
- Tony Thurmond, California Superintendent of Public Instruction
- Dr. Scott Gottlieb, Former FDA Commissioner
Click here to browse full transcripts of "Face the Nation."
MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington. And this week on FACE THE NATION, along with a sunny economic outlook come clouds of caution with the growing number of new coronavirus cases. Now that spring has sprung, some businesses are booming.
JEROME POWELL: We're at a place where the economy is about to start growing much more quickly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll preview Fed Chairman Jerome Powell's 60 MINUTES interview with Scott Pelley. And if that's the case, do we need the full two trillion dollar jobs bill Democrats are trying to get through Congress? We'll ask House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and hear from a top House Republican, Congresswoman Liz Cheney. We'll also look at the crucial caveat in Chairman Powell's assessment. Our recovery is tied to the Americans taking the coronavirus seriously. In Michigan, the COVID-19 situation is so bad that Governor Gretchen Whitmer used a trifecta of sports analogies as she pleaded for just that.
GRETCHEN WHITMER: Bases loaded. Bottom of the ninth. Second overtime. Shot clock running out. Fourth down on the two yard line with five seconds left in the fourth quarter. We cannot afford to strike out, miss the shot or fumble the ball now. It's everybody against COVID.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll talk to Governor Whitmer. She's lobbying the Biden administration for more vaccine supply. So far they've said they'll help, but no extra shots.
JEFFREY ZIENTS: We don't know where the-- the next increase in cases could occur. Now is not the time to change course on vaccine allocations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Especially not when there are supply glitches, and even more demand. In a week, all Americans over eighteen will be the eligible for a COVID vaccine.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: No more confusing rules, no more confusing restrictions.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll check in with former FDA Commissioner Doctor Scott Gottlieb and look at the new guidance to schools with California's Public School Superintendent Tony Thurmond.
It's all just ahead on FACE THE NATION.
Good morning, and welcome to FACE THE NATION. We begin today with caution and optimism. Although there is concern about the rising number of COVID-19 cases, especially among children, Saturday saw a record 4.6 million vaccinations. Nearly seventy-one million adults have been fully vaccinated. When it comes to unemployment, we're still far from where we were pre-pandemic. But as Mark Strassmann reports, the job market is looking much brighter in some key sectors.
(Begin VT)
MARK STRASSMANN (CBS News Senior National Correspondent): And just like that, jobs are back.
WOMAN #1: We are hiring on the spot. We're looking for over forty guest room attendants.
MARK STRASSMANN: Credit a burst in spending from a nation no longer in hibernation. A double injection of adrenalin from the recent 1.9 trillion dollar stimulus package and roughly three million more Americans getting vaccinated every day.
SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL (R-Kentucky, Senate Minority Leader): The economy has taken off like a rocket. A lot of pent-up demand. People anxious to get out of their houses to get back to normal.
MARK STRASSMANN: But in many sectors, the new north normal for employers is a labor shortage. Many restaurants and hotels have had to raise their hourly wages. And some chains now offer signing bonuses, not to executives, but to cooks and kitchen staff.
COVID America's runaway unemployment crisis is over. We're seeing the return of job fairs like this one.
WOMAN #2: Go get your vaccinations and come out and get a job.
MARK STRASSMANN: Nationwide, more than one in three Americans have had at least one shot of a vaccine. In many moments and ways, America feels back.
WOMAN #3: (INDISTINCT).
MARK STRASSMANN: Baseball fans crowded ballparks. Twelve states have lifted their mask mandates, but other states are in deep COVID trouble again.
JARED POLIS: I don't think I'm too optimistic in saying this, I think it's the fourth and final wave.
MARK STRASSMANN: COVID's stalking Upper Midwest states, Michigan especially. Cases have spiked seven-fold since late February. Hospitalizations increased by more than four times. So far Governor Gretchen Whitmer has resisted calls to shut down the state again.
JEFFREY ZIENTS (White House COVID-19 Response Coordinator): We're offering to surge federal personnel, including CDC response teams, FEMA, DOD, and other federal personnel to support vaccination efforts and get more shots in arms.
MARK STRASSMANN: Complicating that effort, a vaccine shortage starting this week. America's supply of the Johnson & Johnson single-shot vaccine will plunge eighty-five percent because of contamination issues at that production plant in Baltimore. Fifteen million doses had to be tossed, a clear setback.
GOVERNOR LARRY HOGAN (R-Maryland): Our biggest concern right now is this bad news we got from the Feds that they're going to be dramatically slashing our supply of vaccines.
MARK STRASSMANN: That will delay what epidemiologists want: herd immunity, the ultimate booster shot for a post-COVID America.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mark Strassmann reporting from Augusta, Georgia, this morning.
Scott Pelley sat down with the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell, for an update on the state of this economy.
JEROME POWELL (60 MINUTES): What we're seeing now is really an economy that seems to be at an inflection point. And that's because of, you know, widespread vaccination and strong fiscal support, strong monetary policy support. We-- we feel like we're at a place where the economy's about to start growing much more quickly and job creation coming in much more quickly. So, the principal risk to our economy right now really is that the disease would spread again. You know, it's-- it's going to be smart if people can continue to socially distance and wear masks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Scott Pelley's interview with Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell airs tonight on 60 MINUTES.
We go now to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. She joins us from Capitol Hill. Good morning, Madam Speaker.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI (Speaker of the House/@SpeakerPelosi): Good morning to you and congratulations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you-- thank you very much. As our viewers can see, baby on the way here.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Mm-Hm.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I-- I wanted to ask you about that rosy assessment from the Federal Reserve chairman, because six trillion dollars has already been spent to get us to this point. Isn't the momentum that he's talking about a-- a reason that we don't need to spend trillions more like President Biden is asking you to figure out how to do?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: No, it isn't at all. In fact, if you listen very closely to what he said, we're at a place where we will begin to see, we will begin to see. And then he also cautions against a-- a surge in the virus. If we're going to grow the economy with confidence, we've got to crush the virus. They are definitely related. So, begin to see, a recovery in our economy is quite different from what Mitch McConnell is saying. The economy has taken off like a rocket. No, begin to see. Again related to the econ-- the-- and as I watched your report, you know, it's exciting to see people thinking we're out and this or that, but crowded venues and no mask-wearing and the rest are not--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: --a-- a positive sign about how we crush the virus. So I think that we have to, again, listen to the science, the science and the governance of how we get this done. And then, of course, it will open the doors--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: --for our economy to grow.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, on the specifics of how the President wants to see the economy grow with this two-and-a-quarter-trillion-dollar package he's asking, you have a Democratic majority. It's a slim one here. You can only really afford to lose about two Democrats. What are you going to do? What concrete proposals can you offer to get Republicans on board with this jobs and infrastructure package?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Well, you've heard me say again and again, public sentiment is everything. Lincoln said that. The public understands that the worst and most expensive maintenance is no maintenance. And we have to maintain our roads, our bridges, our mass transit. We have to upgrade our water systems. We have to build out our-- our broadband for distance learning and telemedicine and the rest of that. So we have a big responsibility. We have a big need to the tune of trillions of dollars, according to the American Society of Civil Engineers.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, what you just labeled--
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: This is a very important piece of--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --what you just laid out there does have Republican support. It's the rest of the package that Republicans are largely objecting to. Can you trim this down to focus on just the portions--
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: No.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --you outlined there, the roads, the bridges, the waterways?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Well, no, because infrastructure is-- it's about education, about getting children healthily in school with separation, sanitation, ventilation. It's about investments in housing, as well. Overwhelmingly, this bill is about infrastructure in the traditional sense of the word. We also think that infrastructure-- there's a need for workforce development in order to have the workforce fully participate in how we go forward and childcare so that women can be involved in that as well. So it's physical infrastructure. It's also human infrastructure that is involved. And the figure that they use is a ridiculous one to say that it's just a small percentage of the bill. It is overwhelmingly what the legislation is about. And some newer versions of why-- how we build the infrastructure in a way that takes building back better means we're all going down the path together.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, as we talked about there, you have a-- a slim majority. So to keep the progressives in your party happy, they are pushing you to actually make it bigger, not to slim it down. They're pushing you as well on paid family and medical leave. I know you continue to say you are committed to making those things permanent--
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Yeah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --but that's not in these White House proposals.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Well, no.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When do you plan to put those things in a bill to make those permanent?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Well, the President has talked about additional legislation, our families bill, that would come next and have issues that relate to lowering the cost of prescription drugs by having a-- a negotiation for lower prices about family and medical leave being made permanent. And of course, I want to make the child tax credit permanent as well. But that was--
MARGARET BRENNAN: When?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: --all a matter of conversation as we go forward, I have no doubt that we will have a great bill in the House. I hope that it will be bipartisan. I've been in Congress long enough to remember when bipartisanship was not unusual and that actually growing-- building infrastructure has never been a partisan issue.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: They would only make it-- they made it partisan under President Obama by shrinking the bill. Hopefully the need is so obvious now that Republicans will vote for it. We'll see. I'm not-- I-- I-- I-- the door is open. Our hand is extended. Let's find out where we can find our common ground. We always have a responsibility--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: --to strive for bipartisanship.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, so no date on that. Let me ask about infrastructure at the Capitol. It has been three months since that January 6th siege. How much longer can you wait before putting forth this supplemental bill to do all the things you say are necessary to protect the Capitol?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Well, we'll-- we'll put it forth when it is ready and it's just about ready now. There was a great deal of review, of request of organization-- entities that had spent money on that day, January 6th, the day of the insurrection incited by the President of the United States, who would ever suspect such a thing. And so there were costs associated then, but now cost associated with building, hardening the windows, the doors, the Capitol put forth by the architect of the Capitol-- of security issues put forth. I had General Honore--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Can you do that?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: --make a recommendation. I'm sorry?
MARGARET BRENNAN: And-- and I read that report. I mean, it was just incredibly detailed and scathing, frankly. So can you really wait? I mean are you going to--
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: No, we're not waiting.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --wait until the committees finish their investigation or can you do something now?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: No, no. We're ready to go forward. The-- there're different reports. I'm talking about General Honore's suggestions--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: --about what are needed. Then there's been a report about shortcomings-- short in the Capitol Police that must be addressed and that was addressed in General Honore's. No, I think we're right now at a good place. But you know, again, we're talking about money and we want to make sure that it is the appropriate amount, nothing less than we need, but nothing more than we need and appropriately prioritized to again open up the Capitol so that it is the temple of democracy, that it is that people can come and be there with adequate protection so that they can do so safely. And the Appropriations Committee had that responsibility in addition to the committees of-- of jurisdiction, the House administration, et cetera.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: So we're in a good place and we feel, how can I say it, we think that it is the appropriate prioritizing that we're putting forward. But it's always-- in legislation it's always--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: --a conversation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we'll stay tuned for that. The House Ethics Committee has opened an investigation into Congressman Matt Gaetz, as you know, for a long laundry list of allegations. Are you going to wait for the committee report or do you think it's time for him to resign right now?
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Well, it's up to the Republicans to take responsibility for that. We in the Congress, in the House, have Bill 23, which says that in the conduct of our duties, we are not to bring dishonor to the House of Representatives. I think there's been a clear violation of that. But it's up to the Ethics Committee to investigate that. And it's up to the Republican leader, Mister McCarthy, to act upon that behavior.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: The-- but we're hopeful about other things in the Congress rather than that we're optimistic about what can happen to our economy if we crush the virus.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: What the President has put forth is quite transformative for our country so that we can, as he says, help is on the way.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Help us here. We will build back better.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Speaker Pelosi, thank you for your time this morning.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Thank you. My pleasure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: FACE THE NATION will be back in a minute with the top Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We're back with the number three Republican in the House, Wyoming Congresswoman Liz Cheney. She is also joining us from Capitol Hill. Good morning to you, Congresswoman.
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY (R-Wyoming/@RepLizCheney/House Republican Conference Chair): Good morning, Margaret. Thanks for having me. And congratulations as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you. I love having powerful women back-to-back.
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: That's right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Straight to you on--
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: Powerful women who are mothers of five, I mean, you know.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I-- and I think there is something to that in terms of wrangling cats, no doubt.
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: That's probably right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Back in 2017, you did support the idea of spending, you know, President Trump's proposal of a trillion dollars on infrastructure. Nothing ever came of that, of course. But you liked the concept. Why are you opposed to it now?
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: Well, it's a very different proposal, obviously. Something less than six percent, as you mentioned, of this proposal that President Biden has put forward is actually focused on infrastructure. The National Association of Manufacturers has said that we will probably lose over a million jobs if this is enacted. And-- and you are certainly going to see in addition to the corporate tax increases in the bill, you'll see middle-class tax increases. This is a pattern that we-- we watch the Democrats use time and again, where they massively increase spending. They massively expand the size and scope of the federal government, and then they come back around and impose middle-class tax increases. So those are not things that we support, not things that I support.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that tax increase you're talking about with the National Association of Manufacturers, that was losing a million jobs over two years. It was specifically targeting the corporate tax rate going about twenty-eight percent. Is that an area you're focusing in on? If Speaker Pelosi offers you an olive branch and says we'll go down to twenty-five percent, for example? I mean, is that something you can work with?
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: Look, the bill would need to be fundamentally redone. It would need to be a different bill. It would need to actually focus on infrastructure, not on so many of the additional Green New Deal spending priorities, spending priorities that are focused on helping Democrat allies around the country. You know, we-- we have already, as you pointed out, appropriated trillions of dollars since January and-- and last year as well. I'm really concerned about the impact on the economy, the potential inflationary pressure that we might see with this additional injection of cash. And-- and so much of it is unnecessary. Six percent is actually focused on the kind of infrastructure that-- that there is bipartisan support for.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: So I would urge Democrats, let's focus on that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Portman, Republican colleague of yours, said twenty percent of the bill, if you're generous, is on infrastructure. You're-- you're putting it even lower at six percent. On the question, though, of paid leave, which is something that Speaker Pelosi says is a long-term goal of hers, is that something you can get on board with?
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: Look, Margaret, I think that there are fundamental differences in how the Democrats and the Republicans approach the economy. We know that we've got to enact policies that are going to help spur this economic recovery, policies that are going to create jobs, policies that are-- are not going to expand the federal government so that it's involved in every aspect of our lives. We understand that the engine of economic growth is the private sector.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But as you know, that was so key when it came to female-- female employment in this past pandemic-related contraction.
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: Look--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is-- isn't that something that you think is necessary?
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: I think that it is very important for us to provide opportunity for everyone. And I think that, you know, one of the things the Democrats often do is they sort of try to segment-- segment women out and say, "Well, these are the women's issues. "I think that women need to be in a position where they know that their elected officials are doing everything possible to keep them safe, to keep the nation safe, to get their kids back in school. If you want to talk about what is really going to help women get back to work, it's getting schools open again. And Speaker Pelosi, four times now since January has blocked the Reopen Schools Act from consideration on the House floor. Those are the kinds of things we ought to be focused on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Former Speaker John Boehner was just on CBS SUNDAY MORNING saying January 6th should have been a wakeup call for your party. It was an example of political terrorism, was a phrase he used. And he doesn't understand why more in your party don't speak up. You did speak up and President Trump is threatening to primary you. Was separating yourself worth the risk?
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: Look, January 6th was clearly an attack that was attempted to stop the counting of electoral votes. I just listened to Speaker Pelosi say that, quote, "Right now we're in a good place." We're not in a good place. We absolutely need-- and it is her responsibility to create a commission, a bipartisan commission to study what happened, to understand what the provocation was, to understand what happened, to make sure that it never happens again. After every major crisis in this country whether it's September 11th--
MARGARET BRENNAN: There wasn't-- there wasn't Republican support for the version she put forward--
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: Well--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --which would have had a Democratic majority.
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: The version that she put forward was not bipartisan. It was very heavily partisan towards the Democrats. This is a serious issue. It shouldn't be a partisan issue. You just had a hundred and forty national security officials from Republican and Democratic administrations--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: --send a letter to Congress saying we need a commission. I think that's the single most important thing we need to do--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: --to make sure that kind of attack never happens again.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, unfortunately, last night the Pres-- the former President seemed to be talking in a proud way about the crowd size on January 6th. He gave the speech at Mar-a-Lago. He was the keynote speaker at the RNC fund-raiser and-- and talked about Vice President Pence not doing more to stop the election certification, according to reports in the Times and-- and The Post. So is he really the best messenger for the party?
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: You know, the-- the former President is using the same language that he knows provoked violence on January 6th. You know, as a party, we need to be focused on the future. We need to be focused on embracing the Constitution, not embracing insurrection. And I think it's very important for people to realize that a fundamental part of the Constitution and-- and of who we are as Americans is the rule of law. It's the judicial process. The election wasn't stolen. There was a judicial process in place. If you attack the judicial process and you attack the rule of law, you aren't defending the Constitution. You're at war with the Constitution. And for us as a party going forward, we have to embrace the Constitution and we also have to put forward positive solutions. We've got to be the party of hope, of aspiration,--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: --of inspiration. The party that recognizes and understands that, you know, that the taxes need to be low, the government needs to be limited in size,--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: --strong national defense, those substantive things, not the party of-- of insurrection.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Speaker Pelosi just said it's up to your party to take responsibility for Congressman Matt Gaetz, who, as you know, is undergoing an ethics investigation. Are you ready to call for his resignation? Or are you going to wait?
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: You know, as-- as the mother of daughters, the charges certainly are sickening. And as the speaker noted, there's an ethics investigation underway. There are also criminal investigations underway. And I'm not going to comment further on that publicly right now, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Were you surprised at these allegations?
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: I'm not going to comment further, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Well, he's one of your chief critics, so I needed to offer you that opportunity, as you well know.
REPRESENTATIVE LIZ CHENEY: Thank you for the opportunity, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. Congresswoman, we will leave it there. We'll be back with a lot more FACE THE NATION. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Governor Gretchen Whitmer joins us now from Lansing. Good morning, Governor. What is driving the spike in infections in your state?
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-Michigan/@GovWhitmer): Well, a number of things, Margaret. Number one, you know, we kept our spread low for a long period of time. So we've got reservoirs of people that don't have antibodies. We have variants, big presence of variants here in Michigan that are easier to catch. And people are tired and they're moving around more. And this is kind of the combination of things that is contributing to what we're seeing as a large amount of community spread in Michigan right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Governor, stay with us, because I want to get into the details of what you need to combat this. Stay with us. And on the other side of it, we'll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be right back with a lot more FACE THE NATION. So stay with us. Governor Gretchen Whitmer is standing by. We'll have perspective from Doctor Scott Gottlieb and the California public school superintendent Tony Thurmond also joins us. Don't go away.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION. We continue our conversation with Michigan Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer.
Governor, you have publicly called for a surge of vaccine doses to your state, but the White House's COVID response coordinator, Jeff Zients, as we played at the top of the show, shot that down. Does this-- I mean, does this offer that they're giving you of vaccinators, of resources make up for the fact that they're not surging you doses?
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER: Let me start by saying this. You know, we did not have a national strategy for a long period of time, and then the Biden White House came in and we have one. And by and large, they're doing a great job. I would submit, though, that in an undertaking of this magnitude, with such consequence, it's important to recognize where there might need to be some adjustments along the way. We are seeing a surge in Michigan despite the fact that we have some of the strongest policies in place, mask mandates, capacity limits, working from home. We've asked our state for a two-week pause. So despite all of that, we are seeing a surge because of these variants. And that's precisely why we're really encouraging them to think about surging vaccines into the state of Michigan. And I'm going to continue to fight for the people of Michigan.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And I know, you know, taking up vaccine takes some time. But, according to reports in the Post and the AP, Biden officials are telling reporters that you aren't maxing out your orders, that it's a state problem here, that you're not placing them correctly or something, or you're not being efficient in allocation. How do you respond to that?
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER: I don't think there's a governor in the country that's leaving any vaccines on the table. And I can tell you that's certainly the case in Michigan. We are getting shots in arms. We got over a million shots in arms just in the last two weeks. So we have really been rolling. We've spent a lot of time with the COVID response team, walking through. I think we found some common ground at the end of last week around the data. But all of that being said, right now, we know we've got even greater capacity. We could get more vaccines in arms. And when there is a surge, we think that it's important that we-- we go to-- we rush in to meet where that need is, because what's happening in Michigan today could be what's happening in other states tomorrow. And so it's on all of us to recognize we can squash where we're seeing hot spots. It's in everyone's best interest.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So did you get any explanation as to why the White House won't surge you vaccine at this time of crisis?
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER: Well, I think they've got a plan and they're committed to sticking to it, and I understand that. And we are definitely grateful for the boots on the ground that they're sending, the mobile units. We're definitely grateful for the therapeutics and the increased testing. Those are all really important. And we're going to continue to work well with this White House and-- and we're grateful for that. But I am going to also continue fighting for my state and anyone who's watched what's going on in Michigan over the last year knows that that's-- that's how I am.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER: I'm going to fight for-- to get everything I can for the help for the people of Michigan that we need.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So-- I mean, devil's advocate, if you get doses, are you confident you can actually administer them? Because if you look at what's happening in the city of Detroit, your-- your largest city, the mayor there said, you know, they're really having a hard time in some ways getting the vaccine uptake. There is hesitation. What's the problem?
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER: Well, the mayor's done an incredible job, and I think he has been wanting to expand the population to whom he can offer vaccines. And so we have done that. Michigan was the first to heed the Biden administration's call to drop all of the priority groups and make it accessible for everyone. Right now, if you are sixteen and up in Michigan, you can get vaccinated, you're eligible too. But we have thousands of partners who are ready to put shots in arms. We just need those vaccines to come into Michigan.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Would you drop the requirement to make an appointment?
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER: Well, we know that making appointments is-- is really important in terms of our management of how many vaccines we have, in terms of ensuring that, you know, first and second doses, especially for Moderna and Pfizer. And so the appointment process, we think, has been really important. You look at what happened in Florida in the early days where people were waiting in line and it was chaotic--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER: --and-- and actually somewhat dangerous. We've had an appointment process and it's worked-- it's worked quite well. And I think that with more vaccines, we'll continue to see that work well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, because that's one of the arguments to get it into poor communities that don't have digital access. What about kids? If Pfizer, which asked the FDA for emergency use authorization to put vaccines in the arms of twelve-year-olds, if they get that, would you mandate that for kids to go back to school?
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER: We're not having conversations around mandates. What we are trying to do, though, is to make it easier for people to access vaccines. And I think parents understand--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But why not? Schools mandate vaccines for other things with children.
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER: Right. And-- and the schools may-- may well do that. At this juncture, we are not having that conversation. I can tell you this. We have continued to have good mitigation policies. We've continued to move shots in arms. And that's all despite the fact that I've got a reduced set of powers because of the-- the-- the antagonism from my own legislature. And so there's not a conversation on that front. But we are encouraging schools to move forward, to take a pause right now and to promulgate policies to keep their students and their staff safe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You mentioned antagonism from your own legislature. You've also been the target of some high-level Michigan Republicans recently. Ron Weiser, the party chairman, said this about you.
(Begin VT)
RON WEISER (Michigan GOP Chair; North Oakland Republican Club): Our job now is to soften up those three witches and make sure that we have good candidates to run against them, that they are ready for the-- for the burning at the stake.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: He was talking about you and two of your female Democratic colleagues. The Senate majority leader was also bragging that the Senate had, quote, spanked you on the budget and appointments. They've both apologized. But do you think there should be repercussions for misogynistic, threatening remarks like this?
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER: Well, when you say that they've apologized, I don't know to whom they've apologized because I haven't heard from them. I can tell you this, though, that sadly in this moment there have been a lot of death threats. We know that there was a plot to kidnap and kill me. Death threats against me and my family. It's different in what I'm confronting than what some of my male counterparts are. So, yes, I do think that there is a layer of misogyny here that every woman in leadership has been confronting and dealing with to some extent. I don't have time, though, to focus on that or to go punch for punch. I'm not going to do that. I've got a job to do and that is helping get my state through this, helping get our economy back on track, supporting the American Jobs Plan so that that helps us do both of those things. And that's what I'm going to stay focused on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Governor Whitmer, thank you for your time. Good luck.
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be right back to talk about kids going back to school and keeping them safe. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to California State Superintendent of Public Instruction Tony Thurmond. He joins us from San Francisco. Good morning to you.
TONY THURMOND (California Superintendent of Public Instruction/@TonyThurmond): Good morning, Margaret. Thanks for having me on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you for joining us. Well, California is the last state in the country in terms of reopening schools, but elementary schools in L.A. tomorrow are going to be returning to in-person learning. Why did it take this long? Why didn't the governor really force things to reopen?
TONY THURMOND: Well, if you think about the complexities of our state, we have, you know, 6.2 million students. You mentioned our largest school district, Los Angeles Unified, is opening tomorrow with more than six hundred thousand students. And if you think back to the winter, we had one of the biggest spikes anywhere. I mean, we've lost more than sixty thousand Californians. We have 3.7 million cases. This has been complex. And everyone has been trying to find a way to get our schools open. We're pivoting now and we're at a place now where we see nine thousand of our ten thousand schools are either open or found a way to get open. So we're moving forward–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
TONY THURMOND: --by giving our schools what they need, vaccines and rapid COVID tests and ventilation and resources to get open safely and to stay open safely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In terms of staying open, as I asked Governor Whitmer, Pfizer has requested FDA approval to give their vaccine to twelve-year-olds and up. The CDC director's hopeful kids will return for in-person instruction in the fall. Will they do that in California and will you mandate the vaccine?
TONY THURMOND: Well, this week, our vaccines will be, you know, now have eligibility for anyone sixteen and over.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
TONY THURMOND: And so we know that will be important as we look to see more increases of schools that open for high school age students. And so we know that right now--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But it's not mandated for them.
TONY THURMOND: Well, our governor hasn't mandated that. But, you know, making vaccines available has been a game-changer in our state. We've just surpassed providing twenty-two million vaccine doses in our state, more than four hundred thousand to our educator workforce. And so these are the keys that allow us to get our schools open and keep them safe. Of course, we need everybody to continue to wear a mask--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
TONY THURMOND: --and to social distance. And as we monitor these variants to make sure that we can stay open safely in our schools.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Will you consider it?
TONY THURMOND: Well, my office doesn't have the power to mandate. We have a thousand school districts in our state that--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you have the power to consider it--
TONY THURMOND: Unfortunately, as-- as--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --and recommend.
TONY THURMOND: I do have the power to recommend using things like vaccines and COVID tests. You know, these are ultimately individual choices that our families are going to have to make about whether or not their children will take the vaccine. You know, as a parent, I certainly would encourage it. As someone who has recently had my vaccine, I've gone on live to do live webinars for people to see that it's safe, that it's pain-free, and that it can make a difference in keeping us safe. And with all these variants that we're seeing coming to the U.S., we know that the vaccines are among the-- the most important things that we can do to keep every one of our forty million Californians safe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm. I want to ask you about the kids as they come back into instruction. You spoke powerfully about your own personal experience growing up as a child of a single mom who you lost at a very young age. There was a study that was published this week talking about the forty thousand children in this country who have lost a parent to COVID-19. Twenty percent of those kids, according to this JAMA study, are African-American. In-- in California, how do you plan to deal with this particular part of the inequity problem?
TONY THURMOND: The first thing we do when our students return is to really check in on their social and emotional well-being, making sure that they have mental health supports. This has been hard on our kids all across the nation. We've seen a high rate of depression and we know that we have to first and foremost provide social emotional supports. Second, you know, with all due respect to the hard work of so many educators trying to support our kids, we-- we literally in this country moved into distance learning overnight because we had to keep people safe. And let's face it, education systems weren't built for this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
TONY THURMOND: And so with all due respect to those efforts, we know that many of our kids have had unavoidable impacts. So we'll provide them more tutoring, more supports. We've got to make sure that more of our kids have computers. In this nation we have so many students, including students of color, who've gone without computers and who've gone without access to high-speed internet. In our state, we've worked to provide hundreds of thousands of computing devices and we've got all of our Internet companies to commit to providing Internet at low cost to our students.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
TONY THURMOND: At-- at the same time, I-- I want-- I want to say that many of our families are still asking to remain in distance learning. If you look at nationwide across the country, you know students of color--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why?
TONY THURMOND: --are asking to remain in distance learning. That tells me they still have concerns about safety. And that's why I think it makes sense to go slowly, to be cautious, to get open, to show folks that this can be done, and to use important resources like what we're using in California. We've secured, with the governor and others, five million rapid COVID tests that give you results about someone being positive within fifteen minutes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
TONY THURMOND: That kind of awareness gives you a sense about whether or not it's safe to reopen your school campuses. And we're using them throughout the state of California.
MARGARET BRENNAN: To make up for lost time, do you need to have a summer semester?
TONY THURMOND: We are planning to use our summer school programs to provide more enrichment. But that's not the only way. At the end of the day, we'll assess where every student enters, and look for ways to offset any learning gaps that have been exacerbated during the pandemic. That means a lot of tutoring. That means after-school programs. That means specialized training for teachers and educators and really working closely to engage our families to make sure we're hearing them,--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
TONY THURMOND: --we're providing supports to them and to make sure that our students have access to high-speed internet.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And quickly, given what we're seeing in the Midwest, do you still intend to hold youth sports because that's being seen as a way the virus is being transmit-- trans-- transmitted?
TONY THURMOND: Our state has opened for sports. Many of our school districts are using the rapid COVID test to have awareness for our athletes. What we're planning to do is to continue to monitor these new variants and-- and to make sure-- variants and to make sure that we are doing the things that we know that will keep us safe--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.
TONY THURMOND: --using face masks and social distancing. We're going to have to continue to do these things for quite some time.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Superintendent, thank you very much for your time this morning.
We'll be--
TONY THURMOND: Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --back in a moment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We want to take a quick look now at the COVID news around the world. CBS News senior foreign correspondent Liz Palmer reports from London.
ELIZABETH PALMER (CBS News Senior Foreign Correspondent/@CBSLizpalmer): Good morning. As the global death toll from COVID closes in on three million, there are three main hotspots on the planet-- India, Brazil, and Europe.
(Begin VT)
ELIZABETH PALMER: Even in well-off, well-organized Germany, the ICU wards in some regions are full, and the medical system under strain. Europe is currently a patchwork of lockdowns, and there's a race to vaccinate faster than the virus is spreading. But public confidence has been shaken, first by an investigation into the AstraZeneca vaccine's link to rare blood clots, and now another into Johnson & Johnson's. By contrast, Britain's getting ready to reopen. Infection and death rates are sharply down, so pubs and shops can welcome costumers back as of tomorrow. Prime Minister Boris Johnson will be among them.
BORIS JOHNSON: And on Monday, the 12th, I will be going to the pub myself and cautiously but irreversibly raising a pint of beer to my lips.
ELIZABETH PALMER: Politicians across India are on the campaign trail and rallies like this with few masks and no social distancing are helping to fuel an explosion of COVID cases. The rise in death is so alarming, authorities have decided that India, a huge vaccine producer, will stop exporting any and keep everything it makes for itself. In Brazil, too, the situation is critical. Hospitals are overfull. Some running short of supplies. And the number of COVID deaths every day has tripled since January. With vaccine shortages and no strict lockdown, the situation is deteriorating.
(End VT)
ELIZABETH PALMER: And that's a global concern, because new variants will inevitably emerge from a run-away outbreak like Brazil's. And if they're vaccine resistant, that could put us all back to square one. Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Liz Palmer, thank you.
We turn now to former FDA commissioner and Pfizer board member Doctor Scott Gottlieb, who joins us from Westport, Connecticut. Good morning to you, Doctor. The governor--
SCOTT GOTTLIEB, MD (Former FDA Commissioner/@ScottGottliebMD): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --the governor of Michigan name checked you in a press conference this week as one of the health experts she has recently consulted with. So let's start there. What do you think of her request to the White House to surge vaccine supply? A number of health experts, the former surgeon general, for example, said this is a mistake on the White House's part, not to deliver her the doses she says she needs.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB, MD: Well, look, it's a request that's been made for weeks now, and I think we should have done it weeks ago. It's never too late to do it. And it's not just additional vaccine, but it's the resources to actually get the vaccine into arms. Some of the federal resources that FEMA has, they're developing these mobile vans to go into communities to-- to ramp up vaccination. I think we need to think about putting those resources into hotspots. It's been sort of a Hunger Games for vaccines among states so far. And we need to think differently about this pandemic. If you look at all the planning for past pandemics, the flu planning that we've done in the past, even planning for bioterrorism incidents, it always contemplated surging resources into hot spots. They never perceived that there was going to be a confluent national epidemic, but there were going to be localized outbreaks. That, in fact, is likely what we're going to see going forward. We're not going to see a confluent epidemic, but we'll see these hotspots. So we need to get in the habit of trying to surge resources into those hotspots to put out those fires that's spread. And it's not just Michigan right now. It's the entire Great Lakes region.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is there a good reason to be sticking to the plan of only delivering doses based on population size?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB, MD: Yeah, governors are going to complain about it. Every governor wants their allocation. But we're going to be in a situation probably as early as three weeks right now-- three weeks from now, where supply outstrips demand. And I think a lot of states are going to see themselves with excess supply and excess appointments. So it's going to be a shame to look back and in retrospect, realize that we probably should have put more vaccine into some of these hotspots to snuff them out earlier. Now, it's tough because the vaccine does take time to have its effect. It doesn't have an immediate effect, and that's why we should have done it earlier. It's never too late. But if we start surging supplies into Michigan now, start surging capacity to deliver those supplies into Michigan, it could have an impact on the tail-end of the epidemic that they're experiencing. There are some signs that they're-- they're rolling over right now, that cases may be starting to come down. They may be reaching a turning point. A lot of their cases are in younger people--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB, MD: --people who haven't been eligible for vaccination. If you look at the cases, about fifteen percent increase in-- in cases for those under the age of eighteen, a fifty percent increase for people between the age of twenty and twenty-nine, a thirty percent increase for people between the ages of thirty and thirty-nine. So they're occurring in groups that haven't been vaccinated.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And the governor and the CDC director both highlighted youth sports activities as a possible vector of transmission. What do parents at home take away from that? Do they send their kids to the classroom but not let them go to lacrosse practice?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB, MD: Well, what we've seen consistently through this whole pandemic is that the risk in the schools correlates with the risk in the community. So if you're in a community that has relatively low prevalence, and that's a lot of parts of the country right now, things are starting to look better across a lot of parts of the country, the risk in the schools is lower. If you're in a community that has a high prevalence like-- like the metro Detroit region, the risk in the schools is higher. And, in fact, a lot of the outbreaks that they're seeing are associated with the schools. There's been a seventeen percent increase in outbreaks in the community associated with spread that they think originated in schools in the first week of April if you look at the Michigan data. So I think it was prudent that the governor tap the brakes or at least make-- made recommendations to local authorities to tap the brakes on extracurricular activities and also high schools. They're going to need to take a pause until they get over this-- this surge of infection that they're seeing right now. But in most parts of the country, I think that you can open schools safely. You can continue those activities safely in lower prevalence environments.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Both the governor and the California school superintendent were reluctant to embrace the idea of a mandate for a COVID vaccine for kids. Why? You have to be vaccinated to go to school in most states. Why should COVID be any different?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB, MD: Look, people have-- have come to accept the other vaccines in the pediatric schedule that you reference, measles, mumps, rubella, flu vaccines, I think this is novel. I think issues around COVID have become an unfortunate political flashpoint in this country. And I think you're going to see governors across the political spectrum be reluctant to mandate it, in part, because they know if they step into this debate and impose mandates, that's going to engender more opposition. So they're likely to leave it up to local districts at least to start the year. I think what's going to happen is if you see outbreaks in local communities, they'll be pressure for local school boards to mandate the vaccine. And I think you're also, unfortunately, in some-- some communities probably going to see fights among parents trying to influence local school boards to mandate vaccination or local health districts to mandate vaccination among kids. So this is going to play out at a local level. Hopefully we enter into the school year where enough adults have vaccine that we don't see outbreaks in the schools. Again, the community spread is the best-- best predictor of what happens in the schools. And if you look at the data out of Israel, you're seeing cases come down substantially among kids below the age of sixteen, not because they're vaccinated, but because their parents are vaccinated. So they're not bringing the infection into the schools.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you think of this idea of vaccine passports?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB, MD: I think we should allow people to own the information about whether or not they've been vaccinated. Right now, you don't own that information. The card that you got can be bought on eBay. It's not going to be verification. We've piggybacked reporting on whether or not you've been vaccinated on the child immunization scheme. There's sixty-four districts that the states report to on whether-- on who's been vaccinated for COVID. That system is-- is actually the system that states report to on childhood immunization. It can't be queried by individuals.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB, MD: You can't get access to that information. So we need to create a way for people to own this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. I've got to cut you off there. Doctor Gottlieb, thank you very much.
We'll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: For FACE THE NATION, I'm Margaret Brennan.