Will Madeline Kingsbury murder trial be televised? What evidence is there? Legal expert weighs in
MINNEAPOLIS -- Investigators believe they found Madeline Kingsbury's body Wednesday, and the father of her children -- who earlier this week applied, and was denied, custody of said children -- is now behind bars.
Winona Police say a Fillmore County deputy found human remains Wednesday afternoon in some brush off Highway 43 near the town of Mabel. They said tips from the Kingsbury investigation led them there.
After those remains were found, they arrested the person who's believed to have seen her last -- her former partner, Adam Fravel. The Winona County Jail's website says he was processed there around 7:15 p.m. Wednesday on a second-degree murder charge.
RELATED: Watch live: Authorities to provide update on Madeline Kingsbury case Thursday
He's denied having any connection to Kingsbury's disappearance. She vanished after dropping her two kids off at a Winona daycare at the end of March.
WCCO's Allen Henry talked with legal analyst Joe Tamburino Wednesday night. He said answers to questions like what exactly happened to Kingsbury may not come for some time.
Here are excerpts from WCCO's conversation with Tamburino. They have been edited for clarity and concision.
Joe Tamburino: Here's what's happening from what we know. (Fravel) is being booked, or has been booked on second-degree intentional murder. And since he was booked today, that means his arraignment or his first appearance will likely be on Friday. After someone is booked on any type of a crime, the system has 36 hours to get them in front of a judge. Now, that can be elongated. Sometimes prosecutors will ask for an enlargement or a continuance on that first appearance. But in most situations, they will have the person appear in court within 36 hours of their arrest, excluding the day of arrest, Sundays, and legal holidays. ... Now this is not first-degree murder, which usually requires some type of premeditation and a grand jury indictment, but rather he's been booked and arrested for second-degree intentional murder.
Allen Henry: What I'm assuming with a case this public and charges serious as murder, there has to be a level of certainty or a high bar here before an arrest is made? Would that be fair to say?
Tamburino: It wouldn't be fair to say. Right now, being arrested, we would assume that there was probable cause for his arrest.
Henry: How crucial is it to have her discovery tie into this arrest?
Tamburino: It's very crucial. Yes, you can have someone charged with murder and convicted of murder without having a body. But in most situations, most prosecutors -- especially experienced prosecutors -- will want to have a body. It is easier to obtain a conviction if you have a body.
Henry: This has been described as a small community. How does that small-town, big lens from the media change anything when it comes to how this will move forward?
Tamburino: Well, it will move forward pursuant to the rules and pursuant to the appearances that we deal with all the time in Minnesota. So in that case, it will be your typical murder case. However, in terms of the media involvement -- and you're quite right (about the) national media, everyone knows about this case -- there will be a great spotlight on that. Additionally, we must remember that as of the first of the year, starting in 2024, cameras will be allowed in our courtrooms. Now, the judge could obviously decide not to use a camera, but there will be a presumption that cameras are in the courtroom. So if this case goes to trial in 2024, we could imagine that this would be televised, cameras in the courtroom.
Henry: The ex-boyfriend has maintained his innocence throughout this entire process. But like you mentioned, probable cause, sounds like something is happening here and it doesn't look good for him.
Tamburino: Well, probable cause means that there is a basis to arrest someone, meaning that they have an idea, evidence, they have something to tie this person into the murder. It doesn't mean beyond a reasonable doubt. It doesn't mean that a person is guilty. It just means that there's credible evidence tending to show that someone committed a crime.
Henry: Any idea what kind of evidence or is it text messages or could it be a whole host of things?
Tamburino: A whole host of things, it could be something very scientific, like DNA evidence, it could be hair evidence, skin cells, whatever it is. Or it could be something as daily and as common as text messages, email, it could be cell phone location. Many times we're able, or the system is able, to basically pinpoint where someone is based on their cell phone. Why? Because there's devices such as Find My Device, and also basic cell towers, that you could see where a phone is in relation to a cell tower that's in a particular area. It could also be different types of witnesses who could try to place a person in a place where someone disappeared, or they were murdered, or something happened to them. So it could be a whole host of things. And we're not going to know about that until he starts appearing in court.
Henry: You kind of have to assume that maybe police maybe have that information and we're just waiting for the discovery of the body, or maybe they've had an item all along. A lot of people have been wondering, this guy (could be) just roaming around maybe hiding more evidence or something like that. So maybe they've just been waiting to pull the trigger, metaphorically?
Tamburino: Well, that's correct. It could be all of those things. Because with a murder case, there is no statute of limitations. You could bring a murder case, basically, six months after the murder happened, or 60 years after it happened. So there's no statute of limitations where you are constricted in terms of time. And many times they want to make sure -- they being the investigators -- that their investigation is pretty complete before they arrest someone. And then after the person is arrested and brought to court, we'll have some idea what that evidence is because the criminal complaint will list it.
Henry: If this goes to trial, we're looking at I'm assuming months, years of legal process here, potentially.
Tamburino: That's correct. Usually, for murder cases, it takes at least a year to go to trial. Now, in the interim, there are going to be a whole host of court appearances -- first appearances, evidentiary hearings, pre-trials. One of the significant appearances will be his first appearance, we assume that would be this Friday, because at that appearance, they're going to set a bail on him. Now, I would imagine the bail will be quite high. It's an intentional murder case. And if he posts bail, he'll be allowed to stay out of custody. The information of the investigation will not become fully public until either there is a trial or the case is over. All investigative materials -- witness statements, DNA, things like chemical tests, toxicology tests -- all of these things normally are kept as nonpublic data while the case is being processed and until the trial. The complaint may give us a window into what the evidence might show. The complaint might list a DNA sample, it might list some statements. But basically, the bulk of the evidence really will remain unknown to the public until the case is well into trial.
Henry: It sounds like a lot of the questions that we and a lot of people out there may have might not be answered for quite some time.
Tamburino: That's correct. Also, the prosecution could go to what's called a grand jury to seek a first-degree murder indictment. First-degree murder requires a grand jury indictment. A prosecutor simply can't charge that and have a person stand trial on that unless a grand jury does an indictment.