Vallas and Johnson address controversies, fire off familiar attacks at latest debate
CHICAGO (CBS) -- Paul Vallas and Brandon Johnson largely repeated familiar talking points at their latest debate Tuesday night, while also lobbing familiar brickbats at each other.
The candidates also each defended themselves against some controversies that have not come up often in debates.
WGN-TV Channel 9 hosted the debate, with anchors Tahman Bradley and Lourdes Duarte moderating. The moderators noted that while Johnson has said repeatedly that he would not defund the police, he did introduce a resolution as a Cook County commissioner in 2020 calling for "efforts to redirect funds from policing and incarceration to public services not administered by law enforcement." They asked if he would remove money from the Chicago Police budget.
"I'm not going to defund the police. I've made that very clear," Johnson said. "What I'm going to do is make sure that we implement a smart plan."
Johnson went on to reiterate his plan to hire 200 more police detectives so as to improve the clearance rate for crimes, focus on implementing the federal consent decree that mandates reform in the Chicago Police Department, and focus on long-term solutions to deal with the root causes of crime by focusing on issues such as youth employment.
When asked if there will be less spending on police officers, Johnson repeated, "I'm not going to defund the police."
Meanwhile, Vallas was asked about his call for a strategy to arrest all criminal suspects, and how he would ensure the result would not be dragging more Black and Latino Chicagoans into the criminal justice system.
Vallas said he was not calling for going around arresting people for low-level misdemeanors, but to ensure arrests are made for serious crimes – such as destroying public or private property, publicly trespassing, and intimidating and assaulting people.
"The bottom line is there's been a reduction of 76 percent in arrests since 2019, despite the fact that crime has escalated," Vallas said.
Vallas was also asked whether his call for "proactive policing" would amount to a stop-and-frisk policy – an issue that became a source of major controversy in New York City in past years, particularly under Mayor Michael Bloomberg. The ACLU in 2015 issued a study claiming that Chicago Police were engaging in a similar practice.
But Vallas said Chicago has never had a stop-and-frisk policy, and he said the focus would be the point of proactive policing would be ensuring people are held accountable for crimes. Vallas said police have made 2 percent arrests for auto thefts, 5 percent for shootings, and 6 percent for carjackings.
The candidates went after each other repeatedly on public safety policies. Vallas said Johnson's plan for promoting 200 officers to detective would do no good given that there are 1,700 fewer Chicago Police officers now than there were in 2019.
"We are bleeding officers to the tune of 80 to 90 a month because they're simply exiting," Vallas said.
Johnson countered that only 8 percent of the Chicago Police force is composed of detectives, while in Los Angeles, that figure is 15 percent. He said Vallas is "not ready to lead" if he does not believe in adding more detectives.
Meanwhile, Johnson took Vallas to task for his call to hire now officers – repeating that it would take them two years to get through training.
"We cannot afford to wait two years for public safety," Johnson said.
In an earlier debate, Vallas said Johnson was wrong and it only takes six months for an officer to complete training, but that did not come up this time.
Johnson also said he did not believe officers would come out of retirement and back to work after 25 years or more on the job, as Vallas has suggested.
"That's ridiculous." Johnson said.
Meanwhile, the candidates were each asked about specific controversies that have come up in each of their campaigns – including a live interview in which Johnson appeared hours after an all-night period of civil unrest and looting downtown and on the Magnificent Mile early on the morning of on Aug. 10, 2020. Johnson had said in the interview that people were "acting out of desperation."
Bradley said Johnson had seemed "hesitant to condemn the looting" in the interview, and asked how he would convince businesses to stay in Chicago "if the mayor sides with rioters and looters."
Johnson said he was not at any point hesitant to condemn looting.
"What I'm saying is that we actually have to understand the pain of people," Johnson said. "No one is going to be okay with a society that's out of control. I'm not hesitant to say that."
He said the issue is that crime needs to be solved, and if smash-and-grab burglaries are not solved, there will be no deterrence. He returned to his call for 200 more detectives.
Vallas was asked about his record running the School District of Philadelphia from 2002 to 2007. Duarte pointed out Vallas turned 45 schools over to private managers and restructured 21 more, and the district ended up with a $72 million shortfall – with the Pennsylvania budget secretary saying Vallas had "failed to monitor the books properly."
Vallas said he had told officials in Philadelphia that he would not go there if another school were privatized, and he said the 21 schools that were restructured had been "failing." He said those schools went on to outperform the privatized schools – which had been privatized by the administration before his.
He chalked up the $72 million shortfall to three times the number of staffers taking early retirements as expected, along with delayed returns. He also said he left his successor with a balanced budget.
Vallas was also asked about past controversies regarding social issues from his time as chief executive officer of the Chicago Public Schools – including the choice to ban April Sinclair's coming-of-age novel called "Coffee Will Make You Black" in 1996. In a February 1996 article, Chicago Reader columnist Ben Joravsky wrote that the book had been required reading for freshmen at Percy L. Julian High School, but it had been denounced as "trash" and "garbage" by some clergy members. It had one sexually explicit scene, Joravsky wrote at the time.
Bradley also said Vallas' administration had limited gay sensitivity training for CPS principals, and said he was accused of stopping Planned Parenthood from teaching sex education in public schools. He was asked his position on banning books, gay sensitivity training, and sex education.
Vallas said CPS actually funded Planned Parenthood when he was in charge to the tune of half a million dollars.
He added that he did not recall he specific book in the controversy in 1996, but he said, "We actually had committees of teachers, as well as principals, who would make recommendations – so at the end of the day, we had curriculum review committees, and they would make the decisions on what books to offer and what books not to offer."
Vallas said he also put domestic partners in all city school contracts, and supported marriage equality when he ran in the 2002 Democratic gubernatorial primary against Rod Blagojevich – at a time when few public officials were taking such a stand.
"My record on supporting the LGBT community is a reason that I have such strong support from the LGBT Chamber of Commerce, as well as individuals like Tom Tunney," Vallas said.
Vallas was also asked about "likes" that had appeared under his name on social media, including a Facebook post that called Chicago a "hellhole." He repeated earlier explanations that others had had access to his Twitter account, and appropriate action had to be taken so it did not happen again.
"We weren't really sure who was doing it because people move in and out of campaigns freely," Vallas said.
Returning to a disagreement that has come up between the two candidates in past debates, Vallas argued that test scores have "plummeted" In Chicago Public Schools – and violence amongst school-age youth has "skyrocketed." He said this was because the schools were shut down and remote for 15 months at the height of the COVID-19 pandemic – over the objections of then CPS CEO Janice Jackson – and he blamed the Chicago Teachers Union leadership for this.
"The Chicago Teachers Union leadership have wreaked havoc on the Chicago Public Schools," Vallas said.
Johnson said the point of the shutdowns of schools and most other indoor spaces by Gov. JB Pritzker was to save lives at the height of the pandemic, and he said Pritzker did the right thing. He accused Vallas of saying "teachers are responsible for violence in the city of Chicago."
Meanwhile, Vallas called Johnson a "wholly-owned subsidiary" of the CTU, and returned to the claim that Johnson really wants to defund the police.
Johnson replied by calling Vallas a Republican: "The Republicans said President Biden was going to defund the police. Republicans said that Governor Pritzker was going to defund the police. Republicans said that Nancy Pelosi was going to defund the police. And now the Republican is saying that I'm going to defund the police."
Vallas repeated earlier in the debate that he is a lifelong Democrat.
At 6 p.m. next Tuesday, March 28, CBS 2, along with our partners – the Business Leadership Council, the Chicago Urban League, The National Association of Black Journalists Chicago, and WVON – will host a debate with Johnson and Vallas. You can stream it on all of our platforms, as well as watch it on TV.
Early voting in the mayoral race began Monday. The election is Tuesday, April 4.