Face the Nation Transcripts April 27 2014: Netanyahu, Blinken, McCaskill, Corker

(CBS News) -- Below is a transcript of Face the Nation from April 27, 2014. Guests include: Benjamin Netanyahu, Tony Blinken, Bob Corker, Claire McCaskill, Rick Santorum, Holly Williams, Allen Pizzey, Bobby Ghosh, Peter Baker, and Nia-Malika Henderson.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Today on Face the Nation: The president issues a new warning to Russia over Ukraine. And in the Middle East a surprise announcement from the Palestinian side--is it an overture to restart the peace talks? We'll start there with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. We'll have the latest from Ukraine and get the take on that from the administration and Capitol Hill. Plus: Former Presidential Candidate Rick Santorum on Georgia's new gun law AND a unique event in Catholic Church history. Sixty years of News because this is Face the Nation.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And good morning again. The peace talks in the Middle East between the Israelis and the Palestinians broke down last week when the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas announced his group was reuniting with Hamas, an organization the United States and Israel have branded a terrorist group.

Well, today, on the eve of Holocaust Remembrance Day, Abbas issued a statement decrying the killing of 6 million Jews and saying the Holocaust was the most heinous crime against humanity in modern history. In the Middle East, where many deny the Holocaust even happened, it is the first time a leader of the P.L.O. has ever issued such a statement. So what does it mean? Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu joins us from Jerusalem. Prime Minister, thank you for coming. What do you make of this statement?

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: Well, I think the difficulty is to reconcile that statement that President Abbas is making a few days after he embraces Hamas that denies the Holocaust and calls for perpetrating another Holocaust against the 6 million Jews of the State of Israel.

So President Mahmoud Abbas has to decide whether he wants a pact with Hamas or peace with Israel. He cannot speak out of both sides of his mouth. He cannot embrace Hamas and say that he wants peace with Israel. In fact, what I say to him very simply is this: President Abbas, tear up your pact with Hamas. Recognize the Jewish state. Make peace. I hope you do that. But you can't have both Hamas and peace with Israel.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, do you intend to sort of find out or see what he's saying here? Do you think this could be some kind of an overture?

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: I think it's an overture to American public opinion, to world public opinion to try to placate and somehow smooth over the fact that he made a terrible step away from peace. He made a giant leap backwards, away from peace, because he embraced Hamas that calls for the extermination of Jews worldwide, for the eradication of Israel, and actually acts on a daily basis against peace by firing thousands of rockets against Israel, having sent scores of suicide bombers against us, digging tunnels to kidnap our soldiers and citizens. All sorts of horrible things with Hamas.

Now, I suppose President Abbas is under pressure to explain why he embraces these people, and this may be a way of trying to exculpate himself. But it doesn't. You have to decide, as I said. You have to decide. If you join forces with these people, with Hamas, that by the way not only is calling for Israel's destruction: These are the people who praise bin Laden as a holy warrior. These are the people who condemn the United States for killing bin Laden. So, you know, you can say nice things or even significant things about the Holocaust, but you can't embrace those who deny the Holocaust and are asking to commit another Holocaust.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Prime Minster, some people are saying that the reason that Hamas has come over to the P.L.O., or says they want to be part of that now, is that they are very weak. And your critics are saying that you are using this simply as an excuse not to negotiate. That you really don't want an agreement that will lead to two separate states.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: I've negotiated in earnest for the last nine months and before that too. But I worked very closely with Secretary Kerry for days and weeks, days at a time, actually, and we made some significant progress. And I thought we were on route to making more progress. Last Tuesday night, I said to Secretary Kerry, after our teams met with the Palestinians, and we were remarking on the fact that we made some progress.

And then the next day, we were both shocked. There's no other word. We were absolutely stupefied that President Abbas embraced the terrorist organization Hamas that seeks Israel's destruction. It's just incompatible with peace. So, you know, we've been negotiating. I had hoped that we'd make this progress. I hope that President Abbas decides to tear up that pact with Hamas and go back to the negotiation.

But the ball is in his court, and this is not an excuse. You wouldn't negotiate with a government that would be backed by Al Qaeda, that seeks to destroy the United States. You wouldn't do that; you wouldn't expect us to do that.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well--

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: And I think those who are suggesting that are really offering something that can't be accepted.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Are you saying, sir, that there can be no discussion with the P.L.O. as long as Hamas is a part of it?

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: I'm saying something very clear: As long as I'm prime minister of Israel, we will not negotiate with a government that is backed by Hamas, an organization that is committed to our destruction. It's common sense. Of course. I mean, you want to make peace with an enemy, but only with an enemy that's decided to make peace. An enemy that seeks your destruction, what are we going to talk about, the method of our self-annihilation? I mean, it just doesn't make sense.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, what do you do with it? What do you--

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: You know, I think Palestinian unity, Bob--

BOB SCHIEFFER: I'm just saying--

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: While they were weak, it's important to get them weaker. Egypt has been acting-- well, you don't bring them into-- if Al Qaeda is weak, you don't say, "Well, let's bring Al Qaeda into the tent and begin to negotiate with them." There are some groups, some movements, some organizations that you do not negotiate with.

You don't negotiate with Al Qaeda, political negotiations; we don't negotiate with Hamas as long as they seek our destruction. You have to be very clear on that. And I'm being very clear. And I think that not being clear endangers peace. Because when you talk to people who seek your obliteration, you're not going to advance peace, you're going to produce the opposite.

And I think President Abbas had a choice to make: He could embrace us, and he could confront Hamas. I had hoped that he had made that choice. Now he's embracing Hamas, thereby I think delivering a devastating blow to the peace process. He really has to choose. It's very simple, it's common sense, and it's right.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Mr. Prime Minster, always good to have you with us. Thanks for being with us this morning.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: Thank you, Bob.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Joining us now is the White House Deputy National Security Advisor Tony Blinken. Mr. Blinken, you heard the prime minister: He says, "No way, no how, as long as Hamas is involved." So where do you go from here?

TONY BLINKEN: Bob, first of all, we've been leading, through Secretary Kerry, an effort to bring the parties together to see if we could get to a peace agreement. They've made significant progress but they also are at a point where each side has to make very, very tough decisions. And thus far, they're not prepared to make them. And so I think we need to step back, let each side consider the alternatives, and then see if there's a basis to move forward.

When it comes to Hamas and Fatah, we've heard this story before. There have been periodic announcements that they were going to try to get together. What we heard this week from President Abbas was an announcement that they would begin a conversation to see if they could form a unity government. Let's see what happens.

But our principles are very clear: Any Palestinian government has to recognize Israel, it has to renounce violence, it has to accept past agreements. That's the basis upon which we would work with such a government, and it's reasonable to expect Israel to work with such a government on that basis as well.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, let's get on to the other story that is dominating the news, the crisis in Ukraine. President Obama this morning issued a new warning to the Russians over Ukraine.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: So long as Russia continues down the path of provocation rather than trying to resolve this issue peacefully and deescalating, there are going to be consequences. And those consequences will continue to grow.

BOB SCHIEFFER: So what are the consequences?

TONY BLINKEN: Bob, a week ago the Russians signed on to a road map to deescalate the crisis in Ukraine. Unfortunately, they haven't lived up to any of the commitments that they made in that agreement. And so on Friday, (even though you know he was in Asia) the president convened a call with all of the senior European leaders and they agreed that, starting this week, we would exert additional pressure on Russia through sanctions. And that will begin to roll out as early as tomorrow.

We've already seen a significant impact of the pressure we've exerted on Russia over the last several weeks. Their financial market's down 22% since the beginning of the year; the ruble at its lowest levels ever. Foreign investment sitting on the fence. And growth being in great jeopardy.

BOB SCHIEFFER: But here's the thing: None of that has worked so far. Why do you think it's going to work now?

TONY BLINKEN: President Putin has to make a fundamental choice. He had a compact with his people and the compact is this: "I'll deliver economic growth for you if you remain politically complacent." The growth started to dry up at the beginning of the year, and then this crisis hit. And through Putin's actions, he has isolated Russia, isolated his economy. The steps we'll

take will further that.

That's not where we want to go, but unfortunately it's where we have to go given what he's done. That means that the compact he has with his people is in great jeopardy. He has to make a very hard choice: He can either continue to do what he's doing in Ukraine, or pull back, engage in the diplomatic process, and take some of that pressure off.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Our European allies are going to have to make some hard choices too. Do you have assurance that they are with the United States on this?

TONY BLINKEN: As a result of President Obama's leadership, yes. He has been in constant communication with our European allies, again, even from Asia. And what he did on Friday in bringing them all together, focusing in on the fact that Russia has not made good on its commitments, getting an agreement to move forward with additional pressure and additional sanctions; they're with us. And indeed, being deliberate about this, having them with us, makes what we do that much more effective. That's why we put a premium on it.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Who in his inner circle is going to be hit with Visa bans and asset freezes on Monday?

TONY BLINKEN: Well, we're going to save a little news for Monday but what I can tell you is this: We will be looking to designate people who are in his inner circle, who have a significant impact on the Russian economy. We'll be looking to designate companies that they and other inner circle people control. We'll be looking at taking steps as well with regard to high technology exports to their defense industry. All of this together is going to have an impact.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Thank you so much. I want to go back, Mr. Blinken, to the president's news conference this morning because he was responding to a story that has absolutely exploded over the last 24 hours. The owner of the Los Angeles Clippers, Donald Sterling, was caught on audio tape telling his girlfriend not to pose for pictures with black people and not to then bring them to basketball games. This obviously has outraged civil rights leaders. The N.B.A. has launched an investigation. And here's how the president responded to those remarks.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: When ignorant folks want to advertise your ignorance, you really have to do anything, you just let them talk. And that's what happened here.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, we're obviously be hearing a lot more about this story. Up next, the top Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Tennessee's Bob Corker. He is in Cottonwood, Arizona, this morning.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Senator, you told me just a moment ago that you had not yet even heard about this development out there. But do you have any thoughts on this remark by this basketball owner?

SEN. BOB CORKER: It's just outrageous in 2014 that comments like these are being made. So I thought the president's response was appropriate and I don't know what else to add to it. It's beyond belief.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, we'll obviously be hearing some more about it. Let me ask you about these sanctions. You heard Tony Blinken say here that new sanctions will be going into effect, but is that going to be enough? Because you're just back from Ukraine, I know, and so far the sanctions we have announced seem to have had no impact whatsoever.

SEN. BOB CORKER: Yes, Bob. I think these targeted sanctions against individuals just are not affecting Putin's behavior enough. And I think you've noticed the red line has now moved. Last week, the red line was demobilizing the 40,000 troops that are on the border that are intimidating people inside eastern Ukraine; now it's just him not going in.

So I've been advocating, as so many people have. Carl Levin was just in the area, (he was there a day after me, a Democrat, as you know) was also advocating that we begin hitting companies within Russia to further destabilize their economy. Their goal, Russia's goal inside Ukraine, is to destabilize the country, to de-legitimize the elections that are taking place on May the 25th.

And over time, he can achieve his goals without actually sending troops in. I think you know he has little green men, black ops, inside, fomenting problems inside eastern Ukraine. Today the people of eastern Ukraine are not yet with Putin. He's trying to change that dynamic. It's amazing; the only information that people in eastern Ukraine are getting is from Russia; the only Russian-speaking news that is occurring. So over time, continuing to do what he is doing, he can do without actually sending people in.

So again, I think we need to put sectoral sanctions in place. I think we need to move those troops away from the border, change the behavior. And I'm very concerned that, as we've seen from this administration on so many tough issues, their policy's always late, after the point in time when we could have made a difference in the outcome. So I'm very concerned. I've been saying that on telephone calls and emails and with the White House. But I hope tomorrow's sanctions are much stronger than just against individuals.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, how do you move those troops off the border, Senator?

SEN. BOB CORKER: Well, again, I think that was part of the agreement that took place last week. I think that, again, the intimidation that's occurring there is destabilizing eastern Ukraine. So, again, with sanctions. I mean, that was what the agreement was about. Russia has not lived up to that agreement. And to me, again, much tougher sanctions need to be put in place.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, what--

(OVERTALK)

SEN. BOB CORKER: --that we want to act in-- go ahead.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me just ask you, what are much tougher sanctions? What would that mean? Help us understand.

SEN. BOB CORKER: Well, you know, I think you've read recently where the Russian economy is certainly very fragile. There are concerns internally about them going into a recession. To me, hitting four of the largest banks there would send shockwaves into the economy. Hitting Gazprom would certainly send shockwaves into the economy.

So again, to me, Bob, what I fear is all we're doing is tweaking folks, okay? These are oligarchs. We really aren't affecting, if you will, the upper middle class in Russia, a broader base in citizens in Russia, at present. And I think, again, these sanctions on individuals is not creating the kind of pain within Russia that will cause Putin to change his behavior.

By the way, again, these calls are bipartisan. I think there is concern on both sides of the aisle that the administration, in exercising such cautiousness-- as they did in Syria, where we've ended up in a situation that is one of the biggest humanitarian crises we've seen in a long, long time. By being so cautious, by being unwilling to confront someone who only responds to action, not words, I think you've seen recently where they're having some kind of hashtag tweet war. I mean, those are not the things that someone like Putin responds to. And again, I just think we need to hit him much more toughly prior to him taking steps that are going to be very difficult to undo.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, Senator, thank you so much, and we'll be talking to you through the week--

SEN. BOB CORKER: Thank you.

BOB SCHIEFFER: --on this. And we'll be back in one minute with the top Democrat, Claire McCaskill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOB SCHIEFFER: We want to go now to Senator Claire McCaskill, Democrat, of course. She's in the Lake of the Ozarks this morning. We want to talk to you, Senator, about a variety of things including this new survey that you're launching to try to find out about a sexual assault on college campuses. But I have to ask you about this thing that's blown up overnight about the owner of the Los Angeles Clippers basketball team. Is there anything that can be done about that, beyond what the national basketball association could do?

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL: Well, in our country we have a First Amendment which allows ignorant racists to say whatever they want to say. However, I hope the N.B.A. takes swift action against this man. I can't imagine how it must feel to be one of the African Americans playing on his team, how they must feel today, knowing that the owner of the team is obviously such an ignorant racist.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, right. I want to talk to you, and the reason we asked you this morning: You have launched a survey of college campuses, looking for an investigation into what the campuses are doing about sexual assault. Now, you've been one of the leaders in making the military more accountable to sexual assaults in the military. Just tell us what it is you're trying to do here, and where do you see this going?

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL: Well, we've accomplished a long list of historic and sweeping reforms in the military that give victims much more power and deference, that give them more protection and information. And I see a lot of similarities on college campuses in terms of a closed cultural environment where victims are so worried about how they're going to be viewed if they come out of the shadows.

So I think the first step is to look at how college campuses are dealing with this now. I know from my experience as a prosecutor that there's a natural conflict many times between university police and municipal police, local law enforcement versus university law enforcement.

And frankly, the laws are very complicated. They overlap in some ways; they contradict one another. I think it's time we get a really good idea of what's going on, on all of these campuses across the country. That's what this survey is for. Then we'll take the next steps, which would be stakeholder roundtables, hearings, and then ultimately legislation.

BOB SCHIEFFER: I guess there are two questions that I have: Number one, how can you get victims to report these crimes? As I understand it, maybe fewer than 5% of these assaults are now reported, at least that's what we think. And I guess the second question I would have is can you force colleges to do this? Can you withhold federal funds from colleges if they are not properly enforcing these laws?

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL: Well, first, as to victims, we need to make these young people understand you don't have to have perfect judgment to be the victim of a felony. I think many times young students second-guess themselves, "Oh, did I drink too much?" "I shouldn't have gone to his room." "I didn't know him well enough." And they do a self-blame.

And part of that is because they don't know where to go to get the help, support, information they need. We've seen a 50% increase in reporting within the military since we've instituted our reforms. Now I think we could see that same kind of increase if we turn our attention on college campuses. It's the same crime, Bob.

If you are passed out drunk, or if there is a gun to your head, it is the same crime. It is a crime where there is not consent. It is a felony. And we need to start making sure victims understand that so they don't do the self-blame.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Can you withhold federal funds if the colleges don't comply? (And we're running out of time here; about 20 seconds.)

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL: There is in fact ways to withhold funds. But we've got to make sure that we have the right systems in place and processes in place, and then we can go after really strict enforcement. And hopefully, increase the number of prosecutions of these perpetrators that are preying on young women.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Thank you so much, and we'll be back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOB SCHIEFFER:Well, some of our stations are leaving us now. But for most of you, we'll be right back with a lot more Face the Nation, including former Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum, and our panel. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOB SCHIEFFER: We don't hear "good manners" and "politician" in the same sentence much anymore around here but every once in a while someone reminds us of how people used to act.

Voiceover: Last week it was Bob Dole, the one-time Republican presidential candidate and longtime Senate Republican leader. He's 90 now, no longer running for anything. But he set out on a tour of his home state of Kansas for no reason but to say "thank you."

SEN. BOB DOLE: We've had a great time so far, met a lot of wonderful people...and you can take the boy out of Kansas but you can't take the Kansas out of the boy.

BOB SCHIEFFER: He made nine stops over three days, and plans sixteen more stops next month.

Back when he was Senator Dole, he was a regular guest on Face the Nation...and almost always came armed with some news, and usually a little humor.

(1996 video)

SCHIEFFER: WELCOME BACK SENATOR DOLE.

DOLE: THANKS VERY MUCH.

SCHIEFFER: WE HAVEN'T SEEN YOU IN A WHILE. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

DOLE: I'VE BEEN -- I'VE BEEN ABOUT EVERYWHERE.

(laughter)

BOB SCHIEFFER: In Kansas last week, he was "everywhere" again.

SEN. BOB DOLE: I want to thank you all for coming. We're going to go down and say hello and get a few pictures. And then Bill is going to give me a million dollars- that's my normal speaking fee...that's why I don't make any speeches (laughter.)

BOB SCHIEFFER: So thank you Senator Dole, we miss you around here.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

BOB SCHIEFFER: Some of our stations are leaving us now, but for most of you we'll be right back with a lot more Face the Nation, including former Republican Presidential candidate Rick Santorum and our panel. Stay with us.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

BOB SCHIEFFER: And welcome back to Face the Nation. We are returning to the crisis in Ukraine because there have been some new developments this morning. CBS News correspondent Holly Williams is in Slavyansk, a city that is being held by separatists. Holly, what's the latest?

HOLLY WILLIAMS: Good morning, Bob. Here in Slavyansk on Friday, pro-Russian separatists took eight European military observers prisoner, and they're now claiming that they are spies. Slavyansk has been under the control of Russian-speaking militants for nearly two weeks now, and today the town's self-proclaimed, separatist mayor, Vyacheslav Ponomarev, told us that they are at war, that those observers are now prisoners of war, and that he wants to swap them for militants who have been arrested by Ukraine's government. We've just now come from a press conference where the eight European observers were lead out and able to take questions from journalists. They looked tense and unhappy. The head of the team, Col. Axel Schneider denied that they had undertaken any covert activities and stressed that they had diplomatic status. He said they were being treating well, but said he did not know that the separatists considered them to be prisoners of war. Events in this small town and across eastern Ukraine are fueling the worst tensions between Washington and Moscow since the Cold War. Both Ukraine and the U.S. accuse Russia of inciting the separatist insurgency here and of aiding the militants. Russia has denied that it's stirring up the unrest but has warned that if there's violence here, it could intervene militarily. Thousands of Russian troops have been massed at Ukraine's border, where they've been carrying out military exercises. But so far, U.S. intelligence does not believe that they're readying for an imminent invasion.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Thank you very much, Holly. Thank you.

HOLLY WILLIAMS: Thank you, Bob.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, we're going to answer the question now what has former Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum been doing lately? Well, he has just published a new book, it is called Blue Collar Conservatives, and he joins us from Austin, Texas.

But in the immediate past, you were at the N.R.A. convention, the gun owners convention, and I wanted to start there. Because I want to ask you about this gun law that they just passed down in Georgia which, as I understand it, allows people to take guns into airports. Do you think that's a good idea, Senator?

FMR. SEN. RICK SANTORUM: You know, I said this at the N.R.A.: I think a well-armed family is a safe family; a well-armed America is a safer America. I think if you look at anything, from all of these attacks that have taken place, is if people actually had had weapons there those attacks would have been thwarted and people's lives would have been saved.

In fact, there are millions of lives that are saved in America every year, millions of instances where gun owners have prevented crimes and stopped things from happening because of having guns at the scene.

BOB SCHIEFFER: But isn't there also a possibility that a lot of people could have been killed in a crossfire if a gun fight had broken out? I mean, as I understand it, you can't go through the security for--

FMR. SEN. RICK SANTORUM: Sure, of course not.

BOB SCHIEFFER: But you can walk up to security with a gun. Does that mean you could take like an AK-47 into the airport?

FMR. SEN. RICK SANTORUM: Well, I don't know who wants to take an AK-47 into an airport unless you're going there to cause some harm. And of course, they don't really care if they break the law or not, and that's really the point. This is where the law-abiding people are going to have the right to defend themselves.

And, you know, my wife and I both have conceal carry permits, and we do so why? Because we believe that we have an obligation to protect ourselves, just like everybody else does. And so, no, I don't think this is going to do anything to encourage some bad guy to cause harm at an airport. But it's going to create an opportunity that, if something maybe bad does happen at an airport, that maybe someone will be there to be able to stop it.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Does it bother you or does it worry you that we may be going backwards? That we're going back to the days of the O.K. Corral and the old West where everybody carried a gun? Is that--

FMR. SEN. RICK SANTORUM: I think--

BOB SCHIEFFER: --where we're headed here?

FMR. SEN. RICK SANTORUM: You know, everybody romanticizes the O.K. Corral and all the horrible things that happened, but gun crimes were not very prevalent back then. Why? Because people carried guns. And, you know, the folks who use guns in the commission of crimes are cowards. And if you look at going to theatres, they went to a theatre in Aurora, Colorado, that they knew, you know, you could go there and no one else was going to be there with a gun.

If we are a country where the criminal doesn't know whether someone has a gun or not, they're going to think twice about opening fire or not because they won't be able to accomplish what they want. It's a wrong-headed approach that somehow or another, if we take guns away from people, law-abiding people who want to protect themselves, that the world's going to be safer. In fact, just the opposite is the case.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, you know, I would just say one thing. Some of these most horrible crimes we've recently had were committed by people who had severe mental problems. Do you think it would bother them to know that people might have guns? I'm not sure they would know about that.

FMR. SEN. RICK SANTORUM: You know, just because someone has a mental problem doesn't mean that they don't look at the situation and make an assessment. I don't think they completely lack capacity. So, no, I think people do analyze the situation, and if they want to accomplish something, they want to kill a lot of people, they're not going to go into a place that has someone who's going to shoot back.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Let's talk a little bit about your book, it's called, what, Blue Collar Conservatives?

FMR. SEN. RICK SANTORUM: That's right.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And you're saying that one of the things the Republicans are doing wrong, as I understand the point of your book, if this is the point, is that you think you're focusing too much on job creators and not enough on the working people who have these jobs. Explain?

FMR. SEN. RICK SANTORUM: Well, that's absolutely true. I mean, if you listen to Republican rhetoric, it's always focused on job creation, macro economics, and it sort of doesn't include all these folks who hold jobs, who are not job creators. I used the example of the Tuesday night at the Republican National Convention in 2012. I spoke that night.

And we had a series of folks come out there as the people in the stands held the sign, "We built that." One after another, small business person go out and talk about how they built that and how they were really, you know, offended when President Obama said, "You didn't build that."

We didn't have one time that-- two people walked out, a job holder who said, "You know, I have these job because of the tremendous effort and investment and risk taking and work that this person here provided so I can have an opportunity to raise my family." And then have the job creator put their arm around the person, say, "You know, my business is successful because of the teamwork that we have of these great folks who work in our operation."

That's the problem with Republicans: We aren't unifying. I think the Democrats divide labor and management, they're always dividing. We need to have a unifying message that talks more about average, working folks who are being left behind by both parties, in my opinion. The Democrats just want to throw money at them; the Republicans aren't talking about them and how we're going to create opportunities for folks who are falling back as a result of President Obama's policies.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you about one statement in your book that really stood out to me. You said, "I would much rather my children know how to fix an 18-wheeler and enlist in the Navy than spend $150,000 to marinate four years in toxic academia." Are you against people going to college?

FMR. SEN. RICK SANTORUM: No, I'm not against people going to college. But what I'm for is making sure that everybody in America has opportunity, and we need to hold up all workers in America, not just those who get, you know, high degrees in academia. And that's not to say those aren't good things; those are good things and we should affirm those. But we need to affirm all work.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me just ask--

(OVERTALK)

BOB SCHIEFFER: --you this-- and I honor people who work. I used to belong to the Carpenters' Union when I was in high school. I know about working outdoors, and I know that's what made me want to go to college and get an indoor job. But beyond that, are you afraid of what children-- I mean, I know you've home schooled your children. Are you afraid of what they would learn in college? And what are you afraid they'll find out that you don't want them to know about?

FMR. SEN. RICK SANTORUM: I have three kids in college this year so I'm not afraid of that. I went to college; I have a graduate degree and a law degree. So, no, I'm not afraid of that. But 70% of Americans, Bob, aren't going to get a college degree. That's just the reality. And that's not going to change dramatically.

And those folks are not doing well in this economy. And we don't have anybody out there fighting for them. This president, not fighting for them. In fact, his policies are destroying the very jobs-- you see that three-quarters of the people who lost their jobs during this great recession have taken jobs that are less money than what they had before. They're falling back. They're hurting.

And nobody is out there saying, "What are we going to do to create opportunities?" not in the high technology area. That's great; we need to do that. But in manufacturing, in energy, in construction, and areas where people work with their hands and do things that create a multiplier effect, like manufacturing does. It creates jobs for hardworking Americans.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Final question. Do I take it, from what you're saying this morning, that you are running for the Republican presidential nomination next--

FMR. SEN. RICK SANTORUM: Well, I'm not making any announcements this morning. But, look, I'm writing a book because I believe America's in trouble. And, you know, I learned a lot from the 2012 race, and we're going to stay engaged in this process, and we'll make a decision next year as to whether we run or not. But I'm going to stay very, very engaged, and hopefully Republican candidates across the country will get this book, look at it, and begin to talk to folks who should be voting for us and should be helping us to change America, but are not.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, thank you so much, Senator.

FMR. SEN. RICK SANTORUM: Thank you.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Glad to have you. Back in a moment.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

And we'll be right back with our panel. Stay with us.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

BOB SCHIEFFER: And for some analysis on all of the above, we're joined by Nia-Malika Henderson of The Washington Post, New York Times White House correspondent Peter Baker, and Time international editor Bobby Ghosh. Peter, you had a big story in the paper this morning about the sanctions. You heard Tony Blinken this morning: They're going to roll some of them out tomorrow. What do you anticipate here? And are they going to have any impact? Because so far, it seems to me, they haven't.

PETER BAKER: Yes.

BOB SCHIEFFER: But maybe they have.

PETER BAKER: Well, so far, they've had a very limited approach to this. They're tapping particular individual and particular institutions. We did hear Tony Blinken said they're going to try to go after some of the defense industry tomorrow, which is going to be interesting to see.

They're claiming credit, for these sanctions, for all the economic problems Russia's having more generally; I don't know whether that's really a direct relationship or not. They argue it is. But you're hearing a debate inside the administration, much like Bob Corker told you: Should they go stronger? Should they go to sectoral sanctions? (That means going after whole sections of the Russian economy.) Should they do something with more bite?

And you heard Tony Blinken saying they're leaning basically to Europe. They're trying to stay stitched together with Europe. They're not going to go beyond Europe; it's too important to them to keep them unified and keep Russia isolated, even at the expense of doing some of the tougher things that some people want them to do.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Bobby, Blinken said this morning the allies, the Europeans are with us, but that's not entirely the case, is it?

BOBBY GHOSH: Yes, they want to have a little bit of a distance. I would like to hear what Angela Merkel has to say. I think Vladimir Putin would like to hear what Angela Merkel has to say much more than what the Obama administration has to say. They are also going along with small, targeted sanctions, but the stakes are a lot higher for the Europeans. Russia's trade with Europe is ten times the size of Russia's trade with the U.S.

BOB SCHIEFFER: He could also cut off the gas.

BOBBY GHOSH: And he could cut off the gas. And, yes, that might not seem that much of a problem as we go into spring and summer but, come the winter, he has the ability to make it very, very cold indeed, especially in northern Europe. So they I think would like to take little baby steps along the way, and hope that that will have an impact.

They seem to be comfortable with the Americans going harder and harsher, but I don't think that that will change Putin's calculus. Yes, the Russian stock market is down. Yes, the Russian currency is down. It hasn't changed Putin's posture even a notch.

And so it's going to take something on the order of getting Russians out of S.W.I.F.T., which is this inter-banking deal, that allows banks to trade currency with each other. If you take Russia out of that union, then all of Russia's banks immediately go into sort of reprieve. And something of that order might move the needle with Putin, but no one's proposing that yet.

BOB SCHIEFFER: I want to talk a little bit about domestic politics and just go directly to it, because I want to play something for all of you this morning that has already been seen on various places. But it is very unusual, because you see Speaker John Boehner talking about how tough it is to get people in his own party to get on board on immigration. And let's just listen to it.

SPEAKER JOHN BOEHNER: Here's the (UNINTEL): "Oh, don't make me do this. Oh, this is too hard." You should hear them. You know, we get elected to make choices. We get elected to solve problems. And it's remarkable to me how many of my colleagues-- they're human. You know, they're going to take the path of least resistance.

BOB SCHIEFFER: He's not talking about Democrats--

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON: No, he's not. He's talking about--

BOB SCHIEFFER: --he's talking about people in his own party. What happened here? Has there been an epiphany on the road to Damascus here? This is like something out of the Bible.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON: Yes. Well, I think John Boehner (UNINTEL) John Boehner stood on this, right? He has said over and over again that he wanted to see immigration reform done this year. He said it last year. But he went in January to his caucus and presented a plan in Cambridge, Maryland, when he had their annual retreat, and he got a lot of no's. He got a lot of, you know, what he said there, which is a lot of whining and a lot of sense that this wouldn't be good to do in an election year.

I think everyone is looking at this in the broader context of John Boehner's future as speaker of the House. Does he remain? It does seem like there's a bit of a rebellion afoot; 40 to 50 sort of caucusing, conservatives saying, "Is there someone who's more conservative who could take the helm in November after Boehner?"

And, you know, there are all sorts of, you know, whisperings in Washington about whether he continues. He's got this house in Florida that he recently bought. So I think some people are seeing it in the context of that as well.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, you know, I mean, what's interesting, and I think all of us would agree on this: Republican leaders are the national level all know that if the Republican Party is going to remain a viable party as far as electing national leaders, it's going to have to make some accommodation on immigration because the demographics, they just can't succeed otherwise.

But we also know that most members of Congress who are Republicans are in districts where there are very few Hispanics. So voting against reform is a very easy vote for him. So what's happening here, Peter? Do you see is Boehner getting ready to say goodbye here, as Nia-Malika suggests?

PETER BAKER: Yes. Even one of his allies said maybe he's just getting ready for that condo in Florida. He's obviously expressing frustration he's been feeling for a long time, and it comes out more easily in his home district where he feels comfortable with his own people than it does, say, in a national setting or on a talk show like this.

But, you know, whether that frustration leads him to try to do something about it is a different question. You know, can he enforce discipline in his caucus to go the direction he wants? Now, the direction he wants isn't necessarily the same as President Obama. He has different ideas. He'd like to do it in pieces rather than in one big bill. But you could see where he and President Obama could come to an agreement if he had more flexibility. He doesn't have that right now.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, do any of you see this Congress actually taking up immigration? Because, you know, they have said earlier this year there would be no immigration reform. And so far, they've pretty much held to that, thinking there's no nothing. They've all gone home and said, "We'll be back after the elections." But do you see them turning back to immigration now?

BOBBY GHOSH: I can't imagine that they would. The closer we get to the election, the less likely they are, for the reasons you explained. It's not popular with each individual congressman; it's not popular in their home districts. It's not going to get them reelected. If there is any talk of reform, it makes their chances of election that much more precarious. So, no, I don't expect them to come back.

PETER BAKER: It's a different electorate for the midterm elections than it is--

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON: That's right.

PETER BAKER: --for the presidential elections. They don't feel that they need to do this necessarily for this fall because it's a smaller, more Republican electorate than you get in a presidential year. They might want to come back in lame duck, they might want to come back in spring of 2015 and feel more pressure at that point to act.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON: Yes. And, you know, it could be, you know, after the November elections, the Republicans have a pretty good chance of actually taking the Senate. You know, they've got a 60-65% chance. And it could be that you see a Senate controlled by the Republicans, a House controlled by the Republicans, and this realization that Republicans need to do immigration reform and blunt this issue as a campaign issue.

BOB SCHIEFFER: What do they think over at the White House? Do they think that the Republicans may actually capture the Senate?

PETER BAKER: They wouldn't say it here but, yes, I think they do. And I think that they're worried about that a lot. It goes by the week; some weeks, they're more optimistic than others. But, yes, I think that they see that as a real possibility, and a pretty frustrating final two years for President Obama's term laying ahead if that happens.

BOB SCHIEFFER: I don't know what the question is. The Los Angeles Clippers owner, and this stupid, if I may use that term, remark that he is caught on tape saying. I understand a spokesman put out a thing and said the tape does not reflect his real feelings. Well, apparently it's his voice--

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON: Yes. I think they--

BOB SCHIEFFER: --but I guess they're suggesting maybe it was edited or something.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON: Yes. I mean, I guess Adam Silver, who is the commissioner of the N.B.A., he's got to verify whether or not that is his voice. The Clippers play this afternoon against the Golden State Warriors. Doc Rivers has said that the protest will be their play.

Some people, like Lebron James, have said, "Listen. You know, maybe they shouldn't play." Magic Johnson has come out to say that he'll never go to a Clippers game again. But, I mean, that's after the Cliven Bundy thing. We've had these real high-profile examples of, I mean, what is just racism.

And now the N.B.A.'s going to be put in a hot spot: Where does free speech end? And having some sort of civil, you know, conversation with your most popular stars, and the people who watch the game, all of whom (many of whom, anyway) find this very offensive. So.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You know, getting back to Republican politics, Jeb Bush is apparently now thinking about running. And, you know, I have a source that told me that, if Jeb Bush decides not to run, that Mitt Romney may actually try it again.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON: Wow. (UNINTEL PHRASE).

BOB SCHIEFFER: Because they're very concerned that the party is not moving forward, that the party has moved so far to the right that, you know, they can't elect a presidential candidate. Now, whether any of this happens or not, what do you think, Bobby?

BOBBY GHOSH: Well, I think if he does run again, what we learned the second time he ran was that he moved more to the right. And I suspect if he runs for a third time, we'll see that continuing. He'll move even further to the right to try and appeal to those remaining few (UNINTEL) of the party that did not embrace him the last time around.

So if they're seeing him as a centrist, as somebody who can gather all the different strings of the party together, I don't think the evidence supports that. It suggests that he will move even farther and farther away, towards more and more extreme positions. And that's not going to, I suspect, be good for the party.

BOB SCHIEFFER: We should talk a little bit about the president's trip to Asia. It's been dominated by other news. At every stop, he gets asked about something else. But was this a success? What was it?

BOBBY GHOSH: I think we're beginning finally-- he's been talking about it for a while, but we are finally beginning to see what his Asia pivot (?) looks like. And it's interesting to say that he's being overshadowed by events. But the important thing is that that trip, and everything he's been saying in that trip, not directed at the American public: Directed at one specific audience, that is China.

And you can be sure that, in China, they're following very, very closely. They are not distracted by things like the L.A. Clippers guy or other American domestic policy. They're paying very close attention. He has made it very clear in Japan that he supports Japan over China on the disputed islands. This military deal that he's about to sign tomorrow in the Philippines is of enormous significance. It gets American military back in that part of the world after 25 years.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, thank you all. There's no shortage of things to talk about. We could continue all afternoon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOB SCHIEFFER: We now want to take a look at something that's never happened before, today in Rome, two popes were made saints on the same day. CBS News Correspondent Allen Pizzey is in Rome.

ALAN PIZZEY: The event has been hailed as "historic" and "unprecedented"...which may be one of those few times when the description really is understating the case. In effect it was four popes in the same place..at the same time.

Relics of the two new saints...were placed next to the altar...their bodies are buried in St Peter's Basilica.

(Francis speaking)

ALAN PIZZEY: The formal declaration of sainthood was succinct.

VOICEOVER: "We declare and define Blessed John XXIII and John Paul II to be saints"...Pope Francis intoned in Latin..."and we enroll them among the saints, decreeing that they are to be venerated as such by the whole Church."

ALAN PIZZEY: Benedict XVI...the first pope to resign in 600 years...looked on from an honored place.

(Pope speaking)

ALAN PIZZEY: In his homily....Francis said the two new saints had lived through the tragic events" of the twentieth century....but "they were not overwhelmed by them."

John XXIII...known to Italians as "the good pope" initiated the modernizing Second Vatican Council. John Paul II is credited with helping end the Cold War and bring down communism.

Criticism of the speed of his canonization...and what is some see as mishandling of the church sex abuse scandal did nothing to dampen the enthusiasm of the half a million faithful who packed the area around the Vatican,

And when it was over...Francis stamped the inimitable style of his papacy on the day.

BOB SCHIEFFER: That was Allen Pizzey in Rome. We'll be right back.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

BOB SCHIEFFER: That's all for today. We'll see you next Sunday. Thank you.

**END OF TRANSCRIPT**

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