Walking Free
Produced by Paul LaRosa, Tom Seligson, Alec Sirken and Shoshanah Wolfson
[This story first aired on Nov. 30, 2013. It was updated on Aug. 2, 2014.]
In October, David Camm, a former Indiana State trooper, walked out of jail a free man after more than a decade, when a jury acquitted him of the September 2000 murders of his wife and their two children. But it was a long road getting there. "48 Hours" correspondent Richard Schlesinger has been reporting on the case since the beginning.
"My assessment of the justice system-- specifically in Southern Indiana, is that at the trial court level, it's a disaster ... These people that represent the State are incapable of doing the right thing," David Camm told "48 Hours" correspondent Richard Schlesinger in October 2013, following his release from prison. "I have earned the right to have that opinion, Richard. I've earned that right."
For 12 years, David Camm has been talking to "48 Hours" about the one night when his life was forever changed.
David Camm's 911 call: Get everybody out here to my house now! My wife and kids are dead!
The way David Camm tells it, on Sept. 28, 2000, he returned to his Georgetown, Indiana, home from playing basketball and discovered a scene that is still hard to imagine, let alone look at. His wife, Kim, was on the floor of the garage, her pants had been removed. His 5-year-old daughter, Jill, and 7-year- old son Bradley were slumped inside the SUV. They had been shot dead with one bullet each -- like an execution.
David Camm's 911 call: ... It's Dave Camm lemme talk to post command right now!
Months earlier, Camm had quit the Indiana State Police to work at a family business. But within three days of the murders, his former colleagues --his buddies -- concluded he was the killer and charged him with three counts of homicide. And from "48 Hours"' first interview with Camm in 2002, as he was in jail awaiting trial, he has insisted he is innocent
"What about Kim and Brad and Jill [crying] and what about the son of a bitch that's out there that did this? And what about the fact that I'm sitting in this jail? What about those questions? I want some answers," Camm told "48 Hours."
But Frank and Janice Renn, Kim's parents and Brad and Jill's grandparents, have all the answers they need. They know who killed their family.
"There's no way you're going to bring the kids back and my daughter back. No way, no matter what they do with David Camm. But, he'll have to suffer, when he dies if it's soon or if it's 40 years from now, he's gotta answer to God," Frank Renn told "48 Hours in 2002.
Except Camm has what could be an airtight alibi. At the time of the murders, he said he was a few minutes away in a church gym playing basketball with 11 other people.
"How sure are you that David Camm was here for the entire two hours and change that you were here?" Schlesinger asked one of the men who was playing basketball with Camm in 2002.
"I'm 100 percent sure because I saw him walking on the side. I saw him sitting down," he replied.
At his trial in 2002, prosecutors laid out their theory: the basketball players were focused on their game. Camm somehow slipped out of the gym, went home, killed his family and came back unnoticed. To counter those 11 eyewitnesses, the prosecutors have eight tiny specks of blood on Camm's T-shirt.
The prosecution's blood expert, Rod Englert, called it High Velocity Impact Spatter.
"This is blood that has been hit by something going very fast, like a bullet?" Schlesinger asked Englert in 2002.
"Right," he replied. "This is so unique and so separate from other stains that one can say with confidence this is from high velocity mist. That the person got on him, would be in close proximity, within four feet of the shots when they were fired."
Camm says those tiny blood stains were transferred to his shirt when he reached inside the car to pull out his son. His lawyers say 11 eyewitnesses can't be wrong. The D.A. says eight blood spots can't be wrong. And, say the prosecutors, besides the blood evidence, Camm had a strong motive to kill his family.
Prosecutors found more than a dozen women who say they'd had affairs with Camm -- or at least had been propositioned.
"It was sheer stupidity on my part," Camm told Schlesinger said in 2002. "I allowed myself to get caught in something that never should have happened. And you know -- I take full responsibility for that."
Stan Faith was the lead prosecutor.
"It shows motive, exactly," Faith said. "From a legal standpoint, we're showing what was going on in this man's mind prior -- and considerably prior -- to the murders, and how long it was developing and growing up into the hateful fruit that we saw on September 28th."
"I think that's utterly ridiculous," said Camm.
When Medical Examiner Dr. Tracey Corey thought she found signs that Jill had been molested within 24 hours of her death, prosecutors suggested it might have been a motive.
"The jury may believe that, yeah," said Faith.
"I said, 'What are you talking about? ... This is my 5-year-old daughter and I did not molest her and I did not kill her,'" Camm told "48 Hours in 2001.
David Camm had never been accused of molesting Jill. And he was never charged with it in this case.
Camm's family, led by his uncle, Sam Lockhart -- who was also one of those basketball players -- never once doubted his innocence.
"He was arrested three days after the murders. How thorough of an investigation can you do in three days? I think once they got beyond the path of no turning back, now their egos become involved and the political aspirations become involved," Lockhart said in 2002.
But the jury convicted Camm after deliberating for three days. Camm got three life sentences--one for each member of his family.
But while this was the end of the trial, it was far from the end of this case.
"This is just a delay. We're not quitting. I wanna find out who killed those kids and Kim. I wanna find that out, Richard. And we're not gonna quit until we do or we die," said Lockhart.
One key to this case was in front of everyone's eyes. Right next to Bradley's body was a sweatshirt. Prosecutors knew in 2002 that there was some mystery DNA on it along with a cryptic name inside the collar: Backbone. But they never investigated.
"The killer left a calling card there. That's the biggest clue in this case," Camm told Schlesinger in 2001. "We need to find out who was wearing that shirt."
"What if it comes back David Camm was wearing that shirt?" Schlesinger asked.
"It's not David Camm's sweatshirt," said Camm.
It took five years to find out, but David Camm was right. The sweatshirt belonged to Charles Boney -- an ex-con nicknamed "Backbone."
"BACKBONE"
"He is the person that killed my family," David Camm told Schlesinger following his release in October 2013. "He's a psychopath, he's a liar. ... He's the guy that has hurt waves and waves and waves of people, people that I love and care about."
"Who is that?" Schlesinger asked.
"Charles Boney," said Camm.
Charles Boney is the man who turned this case upside down. He is, to be charitable, a man whose honesty can honestly be questioned.
"I've never ever encountered Mr. David Camm," Boney told "48 Hours" when he was first interviewed about this case.
This is what he told "48 Hours" just a few years later:
"I lied about not knowing David Camm in the very beginning. I lied about not bein' at the crime scene," he said. "I gave Pinocchio a run for the Oscar, you know."
"You told a lot of lies," Schlesinger commented.
"I had to," said Boney.
Nobody knew anything about Boney until an appeals court threw out David Camm's convictions, saying the prosecutor should never have introduced all those women Camm had affairs with or had propositioned. It was 2004 and there was a newly elected prosecutor, Keith Henderson, who defeated Stan Faith.
"The Court of Appeals didn't say he was innocent," said Henderson.
Henderson decided to try Camm again. And he was forced by a court order to test that DNA on the sweatshirt.
"I did not know what we were going to find," said Henderson.
They quickly found Charles Boney. The DNA was entered into a database of known criminals and it was an easy match. They also matched a palm print, found on the family's SUV, to Boney.
"My initial presumption was, 'We've got the guy. It's over,'" said Camm.
It was five years after the murders and now there was a new suspect and a new question. Why didn't Stan Faith, the first prosecutor, find Boney?
"You did know that the unknown male DNA existed?" Schlesinger asked Faith.
"I knew that existed," he replied. "... the laboratory knew it existed. And I asked a State Police officer, the lead investigator, to check that out. And he told me he checked it out and there wasn't anything that they had."
But Boney's DNA was in the database all along. Faith now says there must have been some misunderstanding on the part of the State Police about what he wanted.
"You ask the State Police to -- to run it. How is that misunderstood?" Schlesinger asked.
"I don't know," Faith replied.
In 2002, Faith told Camm's first defense attorney, Mike McDaniel, that there was no match. After all these years, McDaniel still thinks Faith never even tried to match the DNA.
"I think I was lied to. I mean, that's me," McDaniel told Schlesinger.
"I did not tell him a lie," Faith said. "I certainly did not do that. I told him the truth as I was told the information by the State Police. Period."
It turns out there was plenty of evidence implicating Boney from day one of the investigation. Not just the DNA and the palm print, but that nickname - Backbone -- that Boney used when he was in prison.
"You had all of these sign posts pointing you towards Boney kinda staring you in the face," said Schlesinger.
"That's 20/20 hindsight sir," Faith replied.
"I'm sorry, sir. We've known each other a long time. And I don't mean any disrespect by this. But we were asking questions about that-- that sweatshirt, you know, 10 years ago, 11 years ago," Schlesinger
"We asked questions about the sweatshirt too. We looked at that. And I cannot tell you why the name Boney did not come up," Faith replied. "I wish it had come up."
"What must that have done to you when you learned all of this stuff that you could have had in your trial in your case?" Schlesinger asked McDaniel.
"I spoke harshly to Mr. Faith," he replied.
"Harshly?
"Yes, sir," McDaniel replied.
"What did you say to Mr. Faith?" Schlesinger asked.
"I cursed him like a wet dog," McDaniel replied.
Boney could have been the answer to the prayers of Camm's first attorney, Mike McDaniel. Boney grew up around New Albany and he soon started getting into trouble. His record includes armed robbery and a history of attacking women.
He terrorized Donna Ennis and her two roommates in 1992.
"He was waving the gun at us, hollerin'," Donna Ellis told "48 Hours" in 2006.
"Did you think Charles Boney was going to kill you that night?" Schlesinger asked.
"Yes," she replied in tears.
"You thought you were going to die, right there?" Schlesinger asked.
"Yes, that night, yes, yes," she replied.
And there is one other intriguing aspect of Boney's criminal background.
"You know, quite honestly, for anyone who doesn't know my -- the story, I have a foot fetish," he said.
In fact, at one point he was known to police as "The Shoe Bandit." He would make off with the shoes of his victims.
"There's thousands of men that have foot fetishes or whatever," Boney continued. "There's nothin unusual about that."
But in this case, Kim Camm was barefoot and her shoes were placed neatly on top of her SUV in the midst of a messy crime scene. And that has always perplexed investigators.
"Is it logical to make a connection between someone with your interest in feet and shoes to this crime where [a] strange thing happened to feet and shoes?" Schlesinger asked Boney
"That would be a logical conclusion or situation, yes. But it didn't happen that way," he replied.
So how did it happen? Boney is now trying to sell the story that all he did was sell David Camm a gun, and he swears, that's the truth.
JANUARY 2006: CAMM AND BONEY ON TRIAL
"I've learned -- you don't let the highs get too high," Camm said. "Otherwise, you know, you're gonna fall off a cliff if you go too far in allowing yourself to ... presume that ... you're going to be victorious."
In 2005, things were looking up for David Camm. His convictions had been thrown out, he was out on bond and Charles Boney had been tracked down. Then came word that all charges against Camm had been dropped.
Camm was technically a free man. It seemed too good to be true ... and it was.
Prosecutor Keith Henderson had to drop the old charges to file new charges against Camm and Boney.
"I didn't want David Camm to flee. I got a guy that's convicted and sentenced to 195 years, a natural life sentence," Henderson told "48 Hours" in 2006.
So, a little more than hour after the charges were dropped, the police showed up to re-arrest David Camm.
"They informed me that I was being recharged with three counts of murder. Just sick in my stomach, sick in my gut. Heartbroken," said Camm.
In January 2006, Camm and Boney went on trial separately and simultaneously, but on opposite sides of the state for murder and conspiracy.
"After discovering Charles Boney, my belief now is that this was planned, you know, well in advance," said Henderson.
But one of Camm's lawyers, Kitty Liell, believed Boney would make all the difference in trial No. 2.
"We can answer the question to the jury, 'If David Camm didn't do it, who did?' Although a defendant never has the burden of proof, never has to prove they're innocent, the fact of the matter is jurors are human beings. They have natural questions, and they want that question answered," Liell explained.
Camm says he never even heard of Boney, but Boney says the two met on a basketball court a few weeks before the murders.
"He asked me if I had access or knew of a way in order to gain access to, specifically, a handgun," said Boney.
Boney says he delivered a gun to Camm's house the night of the murders.
"I transported it inside of my sweatshirt, the infamous 'Backbone' sweatshirt," said Boney.
"And that's how that sweatshirt came to be in that garage?" Schlesinger asked.
"That's correct," Boney replied.
Boney says when Camm came home a few minutes later, things started happening quickly.
"And then along comes this black SUV," said Boney.
He says Kim drove into the garage and Camm followed her.
"I heard him talking ... a little more loudly. And then all of a sudden out of nowhere ... I heard a pop," Boney continued. "I heard another pop and then the third pop. They were the gunshot deaths of his family."
And then, according to Boney, Camm came after him.
"When he came out of the garage, he pointed that weapon at me. ...and he pulled it and there was nothing. Nothing discharged," he said.
To hear Boney tell it, he had a close brush with death. But, he says, right after the gun failed to fire, he chased Camm back into the garage.
"Who goes running after somebody who's just tried to kill him?" Schlesinger asked.
"Why not run after him. There's no bullets in the weapon," Boney replied. "I did go in after him. And if someone doesn't believe that that's fine."
"I'm sure it was his hope and belief that ... he could create a story that, you know, would enable him to continue to get away with killing my family," said Camm.
In his trial for the triple murder, Charles Boney was found guilty on all counts.
With Boney convicted, Camm was feeling better about his second trial, especially because the judge threw out the conspiracy charge. But he had to worry when he heard prosecutor Keith Henderson tell the jury about those unproven suspicions that Jill was molested.
Asked what it was like to hear those allegations, Camm told Schlesinger, "Now that -- makes my blood boil," he replied in 2013. "...that's the one thing that really infuriates me, more than a lot of things."
"Because?" Schlesinger asked.
"Because it's not true and because it is so inflammatory," Camm replied.
It would have been Jill's 11th birthday. And now, David Camm's fate is once again in the hands of 12 jurors.
"I spent a lot of time on my knees praying and believing," said Camm.
It didn't work. Camm was found guilty again. This time, he was sentenced to life in prison without parole.
"So how do you convince people now from this place that you're an innocent man? You've had two trials, two convictions?" Schlesinger asked.
"Well, I mean -- at this point, Richard, people have formulated an opinion, and they either believe in me or they don't," he replied. "I ...there's one group of individuals that I'm concerned with right now, and that is the Indiana Supreme Court."
Camm's lawyers filed an appeal to the Indiana Supreme Court, and in 2009, the justices overturned his second conviction. The court ruled, among other things, the jury was unfairly influenced by the unproven theory that Camm abused his daughter, saying, "Missing from this record is any competent evidence of the premise that the defendant molested the child."
"And I turned on the TV, and there it was," said Camm, of learning of the decision.
"And?" Schlesinger asked.
"Tears," Camm recalled. "People yelling 'congratulations.' Just an overwhelming happiness and -- the possibility of another shot."
"And were you ready to go through this again?" Schlesinger asked.
"Absolutely, yes sir," Camm replied.
He would have to wait three years in maximum security for trial No. 3.
Trial No. 3
"The third trial was based upon fact and evidence. And that's what trials are supposed to be about," David Camm said in 2013. "That's what the courtroom is supposed to be about."
For Camm's third trial, he has a third new lawyer, Rick Kammen, who is convinced he is innocent.
"What kind of pressure does that put on you as a defense lawyer?" Schlesinger asked.
"Huge," Kammen replied with a laugh.
Kammen is joining Stacy Uliana, who helped defend Camm in his second trial and argued his second appeal.
"I wanted to make sure I was the person who stayed on the case, who got that opportunity to correct it," she said.
This time the defense will be up against a special prosecutor Stan Levco, who had to familiarize himself with a 13-year-long investigation.
"How does this rate, with the number of boxes, I guess that you have on a normal case," Schlesinger asked Levco.
"I personally never tried a case with this much," he replied.
It was a familiar scene, but a different courthouse on Aug. 22, 2013, this time just outside Indianapolis . Frank and Janice Renn, who lost their daughter and their grandchildren, have been in court for almost every day of every trial.
"Your mind's spinning a lot. And my stomach turns sometimes on certain things. And I -- I guess I just wonder why -- why-- why is this happening, you know," said Frank Renn.
David Camm's sister, Julie, came with their uncle, Sam Lockhart. They've been at Camm's side since day one.
"Emotionally, financially, physically all those things has taken a toll, not only on me, but on our family," said Lockhart.
Once again the jury would hear about the 11 basketball players and the eight drops of blood. But this time, David Camm's lawyers had a different strategy and different experts.
What the defense hoped would be a major turning point in this case, came from a most unlikely spot 10,000 feet up at a DNA lab in the Rocky Mountains.
Scientists Richard and Selma Eikelenboom are originally from the Netherlands.
"In Holland we do truth finding. We work for the courts," said Richard Eikelenboom.
Their specialty is locating what's called touch DNA, using a very sensitive technique to find skin cells. This time they found DNA that would change everything.
"So you found Boney's DNA on all the victims?" Schlesinger asked.
"Correct," said Richard Eikelenboom.
"All over the crime scene?"
"Correct."
"What does that tell you?" Schlesinger asked.
"That he was active on the crime scene," said Richard Eikelenboom.
But Boney says if his DNA is spread over the crime scene, David Camm put it there.
"David Camm and I shook hands for example," said Boney.
"Your DNA ended up all over that scene because you shook hands with David Camm?" Schlesinger asked.
"Well, once again, my DNA is not all over the scene," said Boney.
But the Eikelenbooms say tests show Boney's DNA on Jill's shirt, Bradley's shirt, Kim's shirt and her underwear. And they say they also found Boney's DNA under Kim's fingernails.
What's more, they insist the State Police lab could have found it years ago if the technicians had looked more closely. And according to the Eikelenbooms, that DNA is proof that Kim fought with Boney.
"If I strangle you, what do you do?" Eikelenboom asked, demonstrating by wrapping his arm around Schlesinger's neck. Schlesinger grabbed for Eikelenboom's arm with both hands. "It's [a] very logical reaction."
"And that's what you think happened, that's how she got DNA under her fingernails," Schlesinger commented.
"... there actually was DNA that they found of yours under her fingernails. And that really raises the question, how -- how did that happen?" Schlesinger asked Boney.
"Well, I -- I heard opposite," he said. "I heard there was not any DNA under the fingernails."
"No there was, there was DNA under the fingernails," said Schlesinger.
"Well, I heard that there was not," said Boney.
"I'm telling you that there was, so I mean that's -- doesn't that raise a question ... If you were me, wouldn't you think that was pretty damning evidence?" Schlesinger asked.
"It does raise a question," Boney replied.
The touch DNA could be devastating to the prosecution. But Levco argues the touch DNA tests are unreliable because some of the evidence was previously contaminated.
"We had a DNA expert that said that these are the most unreliable results she's seen in 25 years," said Levco.
"Your results were reviewed," Schlesinger noted to Richard Eikelenboom.
"Yeah," he replied. "And the interesting part was that they were not able to find one mistake or - something wrong with the whole - Camm case.
But this is the first time any jury in the Camm case will consider this kind of evidence. And there will be another first: Charles Boney, who has already been convicted of these murders, would testify for the prosecution.
This jury would hear and see Boney -- and so would David Camm.
"We locked eyes," Camm said. "And he went -- he started goin' [nodding] just lookin' at me, shakin' his head like that. I took that to mean something very specific. I took that as him saying, 'That's right. I killed your wife. I killed your kids. And now I'm gettin' ready to take you down.'"
"I honestly don't remember all of my exact thoughts. But I can assure you they weren't good," said Boney.
"Sitting there in the courtroom, I wanna hurt him," said Camm.
"Did you wanna hurt him or did you wanna kill him?" Schlesinger asked.
"Thirteen years ago, I'd a taken him out," Camm replied. "I stayed seated. I was spinning inside, but I stayed seated."
Boney was smooth, calm and confident on the stand as he told the jury all he did was provide David Camm with the gun. But the jury was not allowed to hear details about Boney's violent criminal past, about his foot fetish or that he was known as "The Shoe Bandit."
"It just blew my mind when we weren't able to show the other side -- where he got to pick and choose what felonies he wanted to talk about," said Uliana.
With his record of attacking women and his foot fetish, the defense has long argued that Boney targeted Kim, followed her home, assaulted her, then murdered the family to conceal his crime.
"One of our goals from the very beginning was to try and - explain to the jury how events unfolded in the garage," said Kammen.
The prosecutors were fighting to focus the jury on the blood because they argue nothing else really matters -- that the only way those stains could have ended up on Camm's shirt is if he was the shooter.
"If you're standing where the shooter is now, Jill is in the back seat, the shooter fires and -- and what-- how does the blood end up," Schlesinger asked prosecution Det. Roger Drew as they stood at the passenger side of the vehicle.
"This area right here would've been exposed," Det. Drew said, putting his hands on his stomach.
The defense brought in crime reconstructionist Eugene Liscio, who prepared a 3D demonstration to show how that is not possible.
"If Jill's here, what's stopping the blood? Schlesinger asked Liscio.
"The actual vehicle itself," he replied. "I believe those blood stains come from transfer."
It was a lot for the jury to consider. Eight weeks of battling experts and witnesses contradicting each other. They deliberated 10 hours. And then they delivered the words David Camm had waited 13 years to hear: Not guilty.
"That beginning of 'not' with the N, that was [slaps hands on his lap] extraordinary," Camm said of hearing the verdict. "The truth is going to prevail. But I had to -- hear three 'nots.' You know, the first not wasn't in and of itself sufficient. ... I wailed. I cried. I bent over. I stood up. I may have praised God. I thanked the jury over and over and over again."
"I heard not guilty. I go, 'My gosh, did I hear that right?'" Frank Renn said. "... what went wrong? What -- what made this jury believe he's not guilty?"
That was the question everybody was asking.
"I honestly believe that there wasn't one person that sat on the jury that won't remember this case as long as we live," said a juror.
"You feel good about what you did?" Schlesinger asked.
The juror replied, "Yeah, we all do."
A juror speaks out
In the weeks after David Camm was finally acquitted of killing his family, he began exorcising remnants of his 13-year nightmare by burning them -- including his old prison uniform.
His family taped it with a camera supplied by "48 Hours."
"Did you watch them burn?" Schlesinger asked.
"I did," Camm replied.
"And you thought what?"
"Good riddance. It's -- it's over. It's gone ... it was therapeutic," said Camm.
"You're smiling a lot more than you ever had in the time that I've known you," Schlesinger commented to Camm.
"I told you, Richard, it's hard not to smile. It's just, it really is. I'm just so thankful," he said.
After three trials, 12 jurors finally saw things Camm's way. "48 Hours" spoke to one female juror, who asked that we not use her name.
"I felt so badly for him. I mean here's a man who has been persecuted for 13 years for a crime I don't believe he committed," the juror said. "And he lost -"
"I'm sorry, you said persecuted. Did you mean to say --: Schlesinger asked.
"Persecuted," said the juror.
"Oh, you meant to say persecuted."
"Yes, I meant to say persecuted," the juror affirmed.
In this juror's mind, the state's case fell apart almost as soon as it began.
"I was put off by the third witness," the juror said of the State Police crime scene investigator.
"... he stated that this looked like a Dave ... Camm crime scene before he ever stepped foot into the garage," the juror explained. "We all felt that he definitely was looking for evidence to support the conclusion he'd already come to. And that's not the way you should investigate a case."
That's just what Camm's lawyers argued. They said all the state's investigators ignored evidence that showed Camm is innocent -- especially when Charles Boney entered the picture.
"When they got him in that interrogation room, they didn't say ... 'You're a violent convicted felon who attacks women. You did this. Tell us what happened.' They said, 'Well, it's better to be a witness than actually a defendant. Tell us what you saw. Give us David Camm. Tell us the connection. We don't think you shot anyone.' ... They're not searching for a murderer. They're searching for evidence that David did it," said defense attorney Stacy Uliana.
Of course, Charles Boney is now the only man convicted in these murders. And he defends the state's case against David Camm.
"Here's the thing Mister Schlesinger. In all fairness, 24 jurors found him guilty, Mr. Camm guilty. They heard the same evidence and they believed that it was possible," said Boney.
But the jurors in those other two cases never heard from Charles Boney. In this case the jury came face to face with him.
"He's a really smart liar," said the juror.
"What's his agenda?" Schlesinger asked.
"To get outta jail and be free and to put Dave Camm into jail in his place," she replied.
In Indiana, jurors are allowed to ask questions of the witnesses.
"One of the questions that I asked in court was what was Dave Camm wearing ... the night that this happened? And he gave me the wrong answer," the juror said.
"What did he say?" Schlesinger asked.
"Long pants and a T-shirt. He didn't have long pants on. He had basketball shorts on," the juror said.
"What did people say about Charles Boney in the jury room?" Schlesinger asked the juror.
"How scary he was, very scary individual," she replied.
These jurors heard the same arguments the other two juries did.
"Did the 12 of you discuss ... those eight spots of blood a lot?" Schlesinger asked.
"No," the juror replied.
She says the blood was not nearly as important as the basketball players.
"The main reason ... that we all came together to -- acquit him was because of the ballplayers," said the juror.
"Couldn't he have slipped out undetected, gone and killed his family and come back? It's not that far. It doesn't take that long," Schlesinger pointed out.
"Well, it was five minutes ... either way ... so there's 10 minutes right there," the juror said. 'The thing that we all agreed -- you can't be in two places at one time and we all believed he was playing basketball and did not leave."
"Case closed?"
"Case closed," she replied.
And that is precisely what three teams of defense lawyers have spent 13 years trying to get across.
"Very often you have no idea if what you're doing is right, wrong, and to have somebody say, 'Yeah, you guys actually got it right' is really, really quite touching," Kammen said, wiping away a tear.
"This really -- it means something to you," said Schlesinger.
"Uh-huh, said Kammen, shaking his head in agreement.
Throughout all three trials, the faces and the memories of three innocent victims -- Kim, Brad and Jill Camm -- were on the minds of everyone ... David Camm's family and Kim's parents, Frank and Janice Renn, who still believe - to this day - that David Camm is guilty.
"I can't imagine what they'd be like today if they was alive. Bradley'd be 20 and Jill would be 18," Frank Renn said. "I just remember them as 5- and 7-year-old kids."
"Tell me some of your favorite memories-- of Kim and of Brad and of Jill," Schlesinger asked Camm.
"Kim was the best thing that ever happened to me," an emotional Camm said. "... she had an extraordinary love for me. And I know that Kim knew that I loved her."
"You must replay scenes in your mind of-- of happy moments with these kids. Can you tell me some of those?"
"I respect your position and the fact that you would wanna -- ask that question, but it's all I got-- left and I don't really wanna share," Camm replied in tears.
"You don't wanna share the memories," Schlesinger commented.
"They're mine," Camm said. "They've taken everything else from me. And I'm holding those for myself."
David Camm is moving forward with a $30 million lawsuit against Floyd County and the State of Indiana.
Janice and Frank Renn, Kim's parents, are contesting Camm's right to inherit his wife's life insurance and estate.
Camm works with the Investigating Innocence group speaking about the wrongfully accused.
